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Dealing with trouble

mark555

Entry posted by mark555

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Running a band, as I have said previously, can be a totally different experience to playing in one. Once I am up and playing, I enjoy the experience, especially when we are getting a good response from the audience. We seem to get that regularly, playing our local venues and pleasing the audience. finding new gigs is always a pain in the neck but it has to be done. A few of our venues are closing down, due to not being able to make it pay or dwindling club membership, and some just keep on booking us which is nice. Some are really popular venues and we compete with bands across the local scene to play their. We are getting known as one of the better bands in the area for what we do, which is great, but that doesn't mean that the competition isn't out there.

However, issues arise that never should and when they come from your own band members it really hurts. 

We have one venue we play and go down very well at, it's called The Travellers Inn and is about 20 miles away from where I live. Unfortunately the two bookings we have for next year have had to be cancelled due to a mix up on their part, double booking with other acts who were booked their first - how these things happen is beyond me but they do. My way of dealing with this is to say OK, we will play another time. however, our other guitar player decided to tell Bev who owns the venue in no uncertain terms what he thought of her, using severely bad language and being very rude. Not only did he do that, he went on a public website used by venues and bands and posted even more vitriol about the venue and it's owner, again using unacceptable language and calling the lady concerned names that I was disgusted with. There was no need for this at all. 

I do not do business in this manner and I have taken a pride in how I deal with venues, which after all, are making a living from their clientele where as playing in a band for us is in effect, just a hobby. I find you get more with honey than you do vinegar, so when I have difficult situations I always find that being friendly is the best way to resolve them. So, I called the venue up, spoke to the owner who I know, and gave her an unreserved apology for how she had been spoken to and for the posts made by our other guitar player, who had no business in making such posts. I apologised for abusive nature of them and said how I was ashamed to be associated with them as they were made in the bands name. (Later on that night I was at a Wishbone Ash gig with our bass player who could not believe what I told him about these posts). Well, lots was said in our conversation and the venue owner very graciously accepted the apology I made and said she knew it wasn't me and that I and the rest of the band would be welcome with the exception of our other guitar player. Just right now it would crate more problems than it would be worth to replace him so in some way I have to deal with this to ensure nothing like this ever happens again. This matter will come up for discussion, but our other guitarist has had outbursts before, usually aimed at myself when I have had to tell him about something that he didn't like. While he would apologise later on very sincerely, I am now seeing a pattern of behavior which I won't put up with, and the other guys in the band don't like either. When I tried to ask him about all this he refused to discuss it with me. So at some point in the future this will have to be dealt with. As a result of this, I have told the other members of the band that unless they get a gig, they must stay out of the management role of the band.

What Bev (the venue owner) Did tell me was that sometimes she is let down by bands and loses custom as punters come to the pub expecting a live band and there is none, as the let down has been at the last minute. So I told her that we would be willing to help her if we are able to. I was trying to changer her perception of us from a problem to a solution. she liked that and said she would indeed give us a call in such circumstances, so the relationship is on the way to being repaired. However, I think it will be 2021 before we get a proper booking there again, which saddens me very much. But Bev and I ended the phone call on good terms which enables me to go back with a new band or with a new guitar player.

On a different note, I am on the hunt for another guitar to add to my tonal palate. As Heritage guitars are all but unavailable here in the UK I am looking at other makes and models. The ones coming on to my radar are PRS, Duesenberg, Musicmann and similar. I would love a PRS but at £3800 for a core range model I just can not afford one and I will not get into debt for one. Maybe a used earlier USA made PRS may be affordable, but certainly not a new one. I really like the MusicMann Silhouette HSH with trem, they play beautifully and are so comfortable strapped on so definitely a contender for a future guitar in the next year or so. But the surprise on the list is the Yamaha Pacifica 611VFM. This guitar has two Seymour Duncan pick ups, (not the cheaper ones) a Wilkinson Trem sysystem, Grover locking tuners and is superb to play. These are extremely competatively priced guitars and play and sound as well as guitars which cost much more.

yamaha-pacifica-611-vfm-tbl-translucent-black_1_GIT0027352-000.jpg

I like the simplicity of one tone and one volume control which is great when playing live. With myself, I have to have a job for a guitar to do before I buy it and this guitar would be very versatile. The neck is maple with the rosewood board. I am very impressed with Yamaha guitars, every one I've ever played has been a really good instrument, although I don't bother withe the cheaper end of the pacifica range. Yamaha seem to know how to make great guitars at a good price point, check out the Yamaha SA2200 Semi - fantastic build and playability.

So that's if from me today, thanks for reading and best wishes to all,

Mark.

 

 

 

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koula901

koula901 52

Posted

It sounds like you handled the band situation well Mark.  Good luck in dealing with that guitarist.  Given the fact that he ends up sincerely apologizing afterwards, I wondered if he has bipolar disorder; if not perhaps he just needs to focus on anger management.

On guitars, I'm here to suggest to look into Eastman guitars.  Very good quality and very affordable.

Good luck.

mark555

mark555 150

Posted (edited)

Thank you for your reply Koula, our other guitarist just needs to learn to control himself. He's not apologized in a suitable manner regarding this incident yet.

 I am aware of Eastman guitars and have played them, I am very impressed with them, particularly their 335 variant.

Edited by mark555
yoslate

yoslate 692

Posted (edited)

Mark, your tale really resonated with me.  I could go on and on...so I'll try not to.  We had a pretty good band going for nearly five years.  Great venues, festivals, opened for a number of national acts, several multiple times.  We demanded and got better money than most of the acts at our level.  We produced three studio and two live albums, of which we're mighty proud. We have two tunes on a You Tube channel with over 80,000 hits.  There were...or my business partner and I publicly said there were multiple reasons for euthanizing the band a year ago.  But there was one root cause.  Our very talented frontman, a crowd favorite, was a toxic personality.  And he was directly or indirectly responsible for several episodes such as yours, not to mention being pretty abusive to one of the band.  We tried, all four of the rest of us, and mightily, to cover, compensate and apologize for, and explain away his behavior.  In the end, he was the end of it.  We really were at the top of our game, but now Ed and I often reflect on what a great decision pulling the plug was.  Sure, there are aspects of performing I miss, but just to excise this guy from the lives of the rest of us was worth it.  Good luck!  

Edited by yoslate
AP515

AP515 39

Posted

I've not had the experience of having to excommunicate anyone.  I've only had to excommunicate myself when I had to move to NC.  I miss playing out...?

bobmeyrick

bobmeyrick 297

Posted

Playing in a band should be fun, and that sort of behaviour is totally unnecessary. Getting gigs is hard enough, without alienating the person who runs venue. Luckliy the four of us in the Pete Donaldson Blues Band get along well.

On the subject of guitars, do you have any particluar idea of what you want? I have a couple of H150s that aren't getting much use - a Trans Black H150CM and a Gold top H150 Special (a slightly thinner and lighter body). I've changed the bridge and tailpiece on both for Nashville units, and reinstated the original Schaller pickups - at one time the Trans black had a pair of Phat Cats in it, and the Special a pair of P-Rails with the Triple-shot rings. Hmm... I might put them back in. Let me know if you're interested.

Yamaha make fine guitars - I used to have a PAC1511 Mike Stern model, a bit like a Tele on steroids, with a Seymour 59 in the neck and a Hot Rails in the bridge.

mark555

mark555 150

Posted

Thanks for reading the blog and all your replies, 

On 11/23/2019 at 2:30 AM, yoslate said:

Mark, your tale really resonated with me.  I could go on and on...so I'll try not to.  We had a pretty good band going for nearly five years.  Great venues, festivals, opened for a number of national acts, several multiple times.  We demanded and got better money than most of the acts at our level.  We produced three studio and two live albums, of which we're mighty proud. We have two tunes on a You Tube channel with over 80,000 hits.  There were...or my business partner and I publicly said there were multiple reasons for euthanizing the band a year ago.  But there was one root cause.  Our very talented frontman, a crowd favorite, was a toxic personality.  And he was directly or indirectly responsible for several episodes such as yours, not to mention being pretty abusive to one of the band.  We tried, all four of the rest of us, and mightily, to cover, compensate and apologize for, and explain away his behavior.  In the end, he was the end of it.  We really were at the top of our game, but now Ed and I often reflect on what a great decision pulling the plug was.  Sure, there are aspects of performing I miss, but just to excise this guy from the lives of the rest of us was worth it.  Good luck!  

Wow, I didn't know you were playing gigs at such a level. Keith Richards talks about your situation with your front man as lead vocalist syndrome. It is a shame to see success wasted though because of a toxic individual but it is more important to be away from such people.

mark555

mark555 150

Posted

On 11/23/2019 at 8:28 AM, AP515 said:

I've not had the experience of having to excommunicate anyone.  I've only had to excommunicate myself when I had to move to NC.  I miss playing out...?

Excommunicate - that's a strong word!!! How about finding a new band to play in?

mark555

mark555 150

Posted

43 minutes ago, bobmeyrick said:

Playing in a band should be fun, and that sort of behaviour is totally unnecessary. Getting gigs is hard enough, without alienating the person who runs venue. Luckliy the four of us in the Pete Donaldson Blues Band get along well.

On the subject of guitars, do you have any particluar idea of what you want? I have a couple of H150s that aren't getting much use - a Trans Black H150CM and a Gold top H150 Special (a slightly thinner and lighter body). I've changed the bridge and tailpiece on both for Nashville units, and reinstated the original Schaller pickups - at one time the Trans black had a pair of Phat Cats in it, and the Special a pair of P-Rails with the Triple-shot rings. Hmm... I might put them back in. Let me know if you're interested.

Yamaha make fine guitars - I used to have a PAC1511 Mike Stern model, a bit like a Tele on steroids, with a Seymour 59 in the neck and a Hot Rails in the bridge.

I really need a guitar with access to the higher frets for a particular song - Jail Bait by Wishbone Ash. I don't like schaller pick ups, I find them somewhat cold. If I was to buy a another Heritage it would have to be a highly figured top, but I have always fancied a gold top, which I am sure I will get at one point, but it's a case of needs at the minute. Ideally I would like a PRS but at £3800 for a new one that is not going to happen, however, if the right used one comes along then I might well got it. I know the Mike stern Yamaha, I've played one and they are great.

AP515

AP515 39

Posted

17 hours ago, mark555 said:

Excommunicate - that's a strong word!!! How about finding a new band to play in?

That word is not meant to be more than it is, but it seemed accurate enough.

I've looked for another band in NC a couple times.  Even practiced with one for a couple practices until the lead singer took the lead guitarist and they split off to form another band... (sound familiar?) 

I just had such a good fit in Phx.  Being a Latter Day Saint, you'll probably appreciate this where others can't.  Sorry to those of you who are not going to know our terminology.  It's not meant to exclude anyone.  If you have a desire to know what they mean, Mark or I will be glad to explain them.

I was the 1st counselor in a Bishopric in West Phoenix.  The Bishop was the rhythm guitarist and played some keys and back up vocals.  The second counselor was the lead singer.  There were two other members with us who played lead guitar and drums and both of them were on the Stake High Council.  I played bass, or rhythm guitar when Bishop played keys, and also some back up vocals.  So 5 band members, 5 High Priests.  We played mostly Stake dances and ward or Stake activity nights.  Once in a while we did weddings and community events.  It was so much fun.  Good clean atmosphere and a bunch of guys that all got along.

Out here I've only been finding groups that play in bars or weddings.  It's just not the same.  I did put together a "music night" where I invited people from the Stake to join me as a band and we did a couple sets of some great music and I invited members of the Stake to sing.  It was a big success.  We had about 200 people show up but that was probably because we had 20 people sing and they brought 10 people each to hear them!  It's hard to get folks that aren't looking to do it long term to commit to the practices.

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