nuke

I can guarantee the HRW’s in my 535 are absolutely not degaussed. With an electronic gauss meter, they readout on the strong end of the range for alnico 5.

I have access to liquid nitrogen at my wife's company. They use it in their 3D metal printing sintering oven to eliminate oxygen during the sintering process. I would be hesitant to dunk a whole pickup in the stuff. I don't think the metal would be harmed, but I think it would embrittle the plastic and damage the solvent cement Schaller used on the bobbins. Also, like I said, the literature indicates that cryo exposure results in a 10% loss in magnetic charge in alnico 5. My HRWs show very good field strength and no lack of charge. Maybe he yanked the magnets, dunked them and then recharged them? Who knows. It wouldn't be a difficult trick to pop out the magnet from a Schaller pickup, dunk it in liquid nitrogen and re-assemble it. Were I going to undertake this procedure in a production environment, I'd order the pickups uncovered from Schaller, and the covers separately in nickel and gold or what not, Then pop out the magnet, do the deed, re-assemble, attach the covers afterward and then wax pot them. If it weren't such a PITA to disassemble them from a semi-hollow 535, I'd pop them out, do all the electrical measurements, and a Bode plot with the exciter coil and integrator on my digital oscilloscope. Here's my post on the subject when I acquired the 535 a few years ago: ^^^ that's someone else's guitar photo in the thread... At the time, I measured the set in my 2001 535 as being quite similar to the Duncan SH-2 "Jazz" set. The other thing that was different are the pots used with the HRW. My 2001 535 had 500K volume and 250k tone pots, with .022uf capacitors. The typical values used with humbuckers are 500k/500k and 0.022uf. My 1998 H150 with factory Duncan 59's in it, had the 300k volume and 100k tone pots, factory from Heritage. Same as used in the Norlin era Gibsons. That made that guitar pretty dark. Until I wore out a pot and replaced them with normal 500k all around. Perhaps some of the "mystique" is picking out a slightly different tone pot. 250k vs 500k for the tone pots would be like rolling the tone knob down to about 7.5 to 8 on a 500k pot when wide open.

Greg Koch is a real hoot. Just when I think I figure out something he's doing, he does something else that blow me away.

He twangs on some other ones too! Go check out all the videos in the recent guitar selection episodes he’s got going on now.

Well, I went and looked at the engineering data for alnico 5 magnets at cryogenic temperature. At liquid nitrogen temperature, the literature says they work in the cold, but there is a permanent 10% loss in magnetization after exposure. There are actual applications of magnets in instruments in cryogenic equipment. Alnico 5 is grain-oriented when cast. While the metal is cast, the cooling process is designed to orient the grains in the direction of intended magnetization. (anisotropic) Not sure what benefit, if any, of cryo treatment. Other than it makes a good story.

3 peace neck??? 😁

My Gibson R0 with CustomBucker 3 humbuckers have unbalanced coils (per Gibson) and they have a noticeable amount of hum pickup that other Gibson p'ups do not. (and just for fun, I recently yanked out the alnico 3 magnets and replaced them with alnico 2 magnets, which so far I'm happier with) My 2001 H535 with HRW's exhibits no hum, so I don't think the coils are unbalanced. I pulled out the Gauss meter and measured the magnetic field strength and polarization. One of the unusual things about Schaller pickups is the screws are "north" and the slugs are "south" which is the opposite of Gibson and most other humbuckers. The bridge and neck read about the same in terms of strength, and I'd estimate they are alnico 5 and strongly charged, with excellent field strength. Not the highest I've ever seen, but a bit more than most I've measured. The HRW's are definitely made from Schaller components, from the base plates to the covers and bobbin spacing, even the screw threads. But, Schaller could have simply supplied Heritage with the raw components, right down to empty bobbins for Heritage to wind themselves, and loose parts for them to assemble as they see fit. Or they may have supplied them wound or in any other state of partial assembly. I did check the electrical characteristics, the bridge is pretty hot, much higher wind than the neck. I wrote down the inductance and capacitance of the coils and If I didn't like the HRW's so much, I'd open them up. Schaller pickups are very well made. I'm working on several at the moment for a friend doing some restorations on 80's and 90's pointy shredder guitars. I just had one apart to replace the wire with a 5-conductor cable. I had them completely disassembled to clean up the baseplate and solder the ground shield. One characteristic that I've found is they are consistently wound, with very little variance pickup to pickup, and usually have low capacitance windings, so even hotter winds are nice and bright. I tend to wonder if Schaller built their own winders. They were certainly capable of that. If curious, maybe I can snap a picture of a Schaller pickup disassembled for repair.

Well after some time playing the Seth Lovers, I'm a bit on the fence. They're less aggressive than the SD59's, but perhaps a little more in the bright and clear direction than I was thinking. I like them pretty well for the most part, and that tinge of harsh the SD59's I didn't care for is gone. I play pretty simple rig, just amp on the edge of break up, run the volume up and down for dynamics and adjust the tone on the guitar as I'm playing. I was pleasantly surprised how well the bridge does with some gain going on the amp, while the neck cleans up easy with some volume roll off without getting too dark. (50's wiring in my guitar, so it doesn't get dark as the volume rolls off). I'm thinking about trying a magnet swap in the Custom Bucker III p'ups in the Custom Shop Gibson R0. I already have a pair of Alnico 2 magnets on hand. Just trying to decide if it is worth the trouble. On the other hand, got to play a Custom Shop Gibson R9 (59 reissue) that the owner put a set of ThroBaks in as well as hear him play it a bunch. Holy smokes, that guitar sounds good, and he's a great player to boot. I also played a Collings I35LC (335-ish) with factory-installed ThroBaks not too long ago, that was fantastic. My H535 is a 2001 with HRW's in it and I wouldn't change a thing on it.

I’ve taken apart and repaired many Schaller humbuckers and there’s nothing special in them. The parts are all metric, and specific to Schaller, so you can’t swap bobbins and magnets, keeper bars and screws and baseplates with US made pickups or parts. They also come with different pole spacing depending on whether they are bridge or neck position. Many other brands are the same spacing for any position even if marked neck and bridge. Even many Chinese manufacturers use the standard US measure components. It isn’t so much you can’t take the magnet out and swap it, it is just you probably won’t be able to get another magnet of the exact same dimensions to fit in the Schaller humbucker. Anything is possible as to what’s in the HRW’s. It is entirely possible they were cryogenically treated. It is also possible that the baseplates, covers, bobbins and magnets were supplied to Heritage unassembled and they wound and assembled them at Heritage. Im happy with the HRW in my 2001 H535. Don’t want to take them apart.

Yeah it’s weird. The Gibson Custom Buckers 3 are un-potted just like the Seth Lovers. The Custom Buckers have alnico III magnets. I decided to take electrical measurements of the Custom Buckers 3. The neck and bridge exactly the same in the set. They measure up at 4.4H inductance and about 7.4k. I will chalk it up to alnico 3, versus the Lovers with alnico 2 and the 59’s with alnico 5. I’ll check the magnetic field too for comparison. Just didn’t have the gauss meter out.

Well, I scored a used set of 2016 Seth Lovers on FleaBay, reasonable price and already patina'd and "pre-aged" from natural wear and tear, so they look right in this workhorse guitar with its own natural wear and tear. The harshness I heard with the stock 59's is reduced, the Seth Lovers are more bell-like, clear, and I think a step in the right direction for me anyway. I took measurements of inductance and capacitance at 120hz, DCR, and magnetic field strength while they were out. SD-59 Bridge: 5.016 H, 350nF Cs, 59.47 nF Cp, DCR 8.27k, field 40mt at the top screws. SD-59 Neck: 4.191 H, 419.6 nF Cs, 65.84 nF Cp, DCR 7.236k, field 40mt at the top screws. Seth Lover Bridge: 4.76 H, 369.6 nF Cs, 58 nF Cp, DCR 8.202k, field 37mt at the top screws. Seth Lover Neck: 4.00 H, 438.7 nF Cs, 58.84 nF Cs, DCR7.59kk, field 37mt at the top screws. I compared the Seth Lovers now installed in my 1998 H150, with Faber hardware and lightweight locking Gotoh tuners, against my Gibson Custom Shop R0, 60th anniversary edition, with its stock Custom Bucker III pickups in it, unpotted like the Seth Lovers. Both have 50's wiring, paper-in-oil caps. The biggest difference is weight, the H150 being 8lbs and 13oz, the Gibson Les Paul is a svelte 8lbs, 1oz. (not chambered). The Gibson is more lush, with a bit more overtones, the neck being on the dark side and the bridge having a good bit more brightness and snap. It does that, "beefy telecaster" thing. Though both pickups are the same in the set. The H150 with Seths is more forward sounding, brighter, punchy, but doesn't have the same rich overtones as the Gibson. They're quite distinctly different sounding guitars, in spite of their close similarities. Both have the pickups set to the exact same height, both wearing pure nickel strings. With nearly a pound of weight difference between them (about 13oz) I wonder how much is wood and how much is pickups.

Thanks guys, it is really hard to describe "tone", but I want that nice, bright, but not harsh top end. The 59's are good, especially with more gain/distortion. But I tend to play on the edge of break up most of the time and even sometimes quite clean and bluesy. The 59's seem to have a peak in the 1khz-2khz frequencyrange that grates a bit on my ears. I wish I had money for the ThroBaks, they sounded so incredibly sweet in my friend's R9. Now to find a deal on a set...

Anyone have direct experience swapping out a pair of Seymour Duncan 59's for a pair of Seth Lovers SH-55 pickups? I have a '98 H150 that was a special run with SD59's and standard tune-o-matic bridge/tail from the factory. It's also a lighter one, about 8-3/4 lbs. I've owned it for over 20 years now. Use it as a work-horse. The 59's are ok-ish, but I find them a bit aggressive and in general, I find they have in this, and many other guitars, a treble peak that's a bit harsh. It isn't overly bright, but it just has a peak in the wrong place to my ears. The original pots from Heritage were like the Norlin era-Gibson, 100k tone and 300k volumes, which darkened it up quite a bit. When a couple of the pots showed wear, I changed them to the more typical 500k and "50's wiring" since I like to roll the volumes up and down a lot while playing. I like the low-output PAF sound a lot, clear, articulate, bright but not harsh. A friend put throBaks in his Gibson R9 and that's the direction I'd like to go, but not $900 in that direction.

Yeah leveling beam to level fretboards and frets. The radius is better at establishing the fretboard radius. I find they work well to radius the top of nuts too. I have a 2001 535 that I love. I got it used in pristine condition a couple of years ago. It left the factory with a very not level fretboard. It was like a roller coaster. It was also only 9.5 radius too. Some heroic effort had been applied in its prior life to level the fret tops. It played but had buzzes here and there. it just didn’t feel right either. Some frets were as tall as new wire, some were under .030 tall. Tried everything I could think of. Then just decided to pull the frets out and do it right. After leveling the board nicely and sanding it to a 10 inch radius refretting was a snap. Having a level substrate to set the frets in meant not much leveling work was necessary. Saved a lot of meat on the frets. Moral of the story, have a good look at the fretboard. If it ain’t level, the frets won’t be either.

Wow, that's awesome!

I thought Heritage has been giving Gibson a run for its money ever since the first few I saw in the mid 1980's!!! I have a great Gibson Les Paul, 60th anniversary 1960 Ver 2 custom reissue. It is just killer. But my H535 is the best ES style I've ever owned and among the best I've ever played. Side by side with the Collings I35, I'd take the 535 for half the price (or less actually). That Collins weren't no slouch either.

Doesn't seem wrong for Seth Lovers. They're usually around 8k ish. I can't remember if they have the same impedance bridge and neck, or slightly more winds on the bridge. I was thinking they were the same. They're in the ballpark anyway. The original PAF were the same, neck or bridge.

Just curious if you can read the ohms of the pickups? Something strikes me odd about the bridge, like maybe it just got a sticker. I think SD keeps a database of the Seth Lover pickups and can recall the DCR based on the serial number sticker on it.

The pickups are little odd. Usually, the Seth Lover set has a smooth base plate, a sticker in the middle with a rubber stamp serial number, and the blue "Seth E Lover / Seymour Duncan" signature stamp over it. Then there's the little model number and date sticker by the leg. If you look at the photos here at Sweetwater, they have an image of a 2016 Seth Lover https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SH55n4NKL--seymour-duncan-sh-55n-seth-lover-4-conductor-pickup-nickel-neck Usually what they look like. Looks like you have a bridge with the embossed "Seymour Duncan" logo pressed into it, no rubber-stamp sticker and no blue signature. But the neck (fuzzy background) looks more like I'd expect. I think the H-535 '06 is actually "106". Which makes sense if it was part of special run or something. Perhaps the internal sticker has been lost to the winds. It is just a paper decal, a dose of humidity or bad luck might loosen it. Or someone picked it out, or who knows on a 9-year old guitar. I think you got one someone's mildly modified. The blonde 2001 with HRW pickups I own, I found a couple of years ago at a shop that had it marked as a 2020 for some weird reason. It was pristine, with the original Schaller hardware. It had "the sound" one wants from a 535. Had to have it. I later found it had the waviest fretboard to escape the factory. Neck perfectly straight, fretboard like a roller-coaster, though all the frets were level. Some were brand new tall, and some were leveled down to .027" tall. Eventually I pulled all the frets, leveled the rosewood, then refretted it myself with medium jumbo, which means the nibs had to go, then put Faber hardware. So, the moral of that story is you never know what someone does to them in the field. What counts is how good it is. My 98 H150 I bought used when it was 2-3 years old, from the original selling dealer. (Buffalo Brothers, who were a big Heritage dealer long ago). They ordered the run with this spec, and took this one back in trade from the original purchaser. The SD59's in it are OEM ones that SD sold to manufacturers back then. No stickers and a little different stamping on the back. So definitely original.

"Hey honey, I was thinking to get junior this guitar for Christmas." (shows picture of Ascent)

Pics? It doesn't sound quite right to me. I do own a special order H150 from 1998. It was a dealer special order, they made a run of them, maybe a few runs of them. It is a standard H150 but it came with SD 59 pickups and a Nashville tune-o-matic bridge and a zinc stop bar, instead of the typical Schaller pickups, bridge and tail at the time. But it bears a regular serial number and it has the normal sticker under the control cavity cover.

The white one looks like it is frowning at you, or it has a fu-man-chu mustache! 😆

Those are real nice looking guitars!

Yeah, I got one of those ES-135 too. It's never really "taken" to me. I guess after 30-years, I could sell it. But it was a birthday present to myself, long ago.

yeah, I have an '01 535 with the HRW's. I absolutely love the pickups. I'd never change them. The SD59's in my '98 H150 are not my favorite, OK though. They don't bug me enough to spend money changing them.