Schaller Pickups vs. Burstbuckers

[steveomatic]

Hi,

 

I just acquired a 1998 Heritage 535. The guy I bought it from changed out the original Schaller pickups for burstbuckers. He gave me the original Schaller pickups that are in mint unused condition. I am looking for opinions on the difference in tone. I know tone is subject to much debate but I have never heard the Schallers in action, so I am looking for opinions on who would switch them back and why.

 

Thanks,

Steve

[schundog]

I have Schallers in my 535, and I really like the tone. I feel like my Gibson ES-335 with 57s are hotter, and have more clarity, but I wouldn't necessarily say better, just different. I had burstbuckers in a Les Paul, and found them to be clear pickups, but quite bright for my tastes, and I'm a guy who likes his Fenders! If you find the burstbuckers too bright for you, you may consider going to the Schallers; they do sound good in a 535, IMHO. As always, I'd try what you have first, experimenting with pickup height, string size/type, etc, before going through the PIA of changing pickups, especially in a semihollow body guitar.

[ledzef]

The burstbuckers in my 08 Les Paul are garbage too much bass in neck too much treble in the bridge. The Schallers in my Blues Deluxe have a good balance the only they are not made for is metal but hey it's a semi guitar anyways. Since you have both sets I'd just try the Schallers I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

[Kuz]

For what I am trying to play and from my experiences with those pups, my answer would be NEITHER.

[tulk1]

Which Burstbuckers? There are 4 versions, aren't there? 1, 2, 3 and Pro? BB2 and BB3 were pretty cool. Had them in a couple of LPs. The "Pro" were overly bright, never really did sound that good. Never had BB1s.

 

As for the Schallers, they're another "PAF"ish pickup. You can find better pickups, and you can find worse pickups. Heritage chose them for a reason. In the 535 they'll sound decent. Is there something you're not liking about the BBs that are in the 535? Swapping pups in a semi isn't the easiest thing to do.

[schundog]

For what I am trying to play and from my experiences with those pups, my answer would be NEITHER.

 

 

Wow, Kuz, THAT really cleared things up!! LOL. You do make a good point, though, it really depends on what the OP is going to use the guitar for. That being said, I'd still say the Schallers are decent in that guitar, 57 Classics sound great, and I've also had luck with Seth Lovers in a Semihollow (H-155, not exactly the same as a 535,) and Duncan Antiquities have also have a good reputation in these guitars. To the original poster, I'd say try the burstbuckers that are in there for a week, and if you don't like them, switch to the Schallers; if you don't like THEM, then punt, ie, decide whether or not to chase your tone through pickup changes. As was mentioned in another thread I read somewhere, make sure you are making adjustments to your tone and volume on the guitar, as well as the controls on the amplifier. Sounds reasonable enough, but I know a lot of people don't do any tweaking when they switch from one guitar to another, and wonder why the humbuckers don't sound as good as the single coils they were just playing through the same amp. You gotta adjust the amp for the guitar. Best of Luck, and welcome to the 535 club!

[schundog]

Which Burstbuckers? There are 4 versions, aren't there? 1, 2, 3 and Pro? BB2 and BB3 were pretty cool. Had them in a couple of LPs. The "Pro" were overly bright, never really did sound that good. Never had BB1s.

As for the Schallers, they're another "PAF"ish pickup. You can find better pickups, and you can find worse pickups. Heritage chose them for a reason. In the 535 they'll sound decent. Is there something you're not liking about the BBs that are in the 535? Swapping pups in a semi isn't the easiest thing to do.

 

 

 

I agree about the BB pros, Kenny. Those are what I had in a used Les Paul I used to have, and they were way to bright. How would you characterize the pickups in your new 555, compared to Schallers, for instance?

[Patrick]

Hey Steve: Congrats on your newly aquired H 535. Also, I appreciate the way you asked the question regarding the pick ups. I always laugh when I read a post where someone will ask . . . which pick pups are better . . . or which pick ups sound the best. You're correct, tone is very subjective to each individual's ear. You asked for info on the tonal qualities and their differences. Then, having gotten some replies, I assume you'll make your own choices. Keep in mind, anyone who gives you their opinion on "who would switch back and why?" . . . is probably making that assessment on having experienced both types through his own amp . . . more than likely different than your own . . . . and with his own unique guitar set up and amp adjustments. Also, his touch, feel and playing is definitely different than your own. I remember once hearing Steve Lukather say of Larry Carlton . . . "even if I use Larry's guitar and amp rig . . I still can't get myself to soung like Larry or get his tone".

 

Even though switching out the pups in a semi hollow is a little challenging . . . I expect that's what you're going to have to do . . . or you'll never totally satisfy your curiousity.

[tulk1]

I agree about the BB pros, Kenny. Those are what I had in a used Les Paul I used to have, and they were way to bright. How would you characterize the pickups in your new 555, compared to Schallers, for instance?

HRWs = Schallers on Steroids! Very warm in the neck; split it gets very spanky and makes a wonderful rhythm pickup. I've been leaving the bridge on full HB and just flip to it for leads most of the time. Lots of character and note definition for a humbucker. Can't be a straight comparison to the 535 with Schallers because the 555 has an Ebony board vs RW. But, they tend to exhibit a lot of the same characteristics; just pronounced a bit more in the HRWs. Very decent "PAF" style pickups.

 

To Steveomatic: if you really want that 535 to sing - try a set of SD PhatCats! And get ready for a whole new world of sounds.

[Kuz]

Wow, Kuz, THAT really cleared things up!! LOL. You do make a good point, though, it really depends on what the OP is going to use the guitar for. That being said, I'd still say the Schallers are decent in that guitar, 57 Classics sound great, and I've also had luck with Seth Lovers in a Semihollow (H-155, not exactly the same as a 535,) and Duncan Antiquities have also have a good reputation in these guitars. To the original poster, I'd say try the burstbuckers that are in there for a week, and if you don't like them, switch to the Schallers; if you don't like THEM, then punt, ie, decide whether or not to chase your tone through pickup changes. As was mentioned in another thread I read somewhere, make sure you are making adjustments to your tone and volume on the guitar, as well as the controls on the amplifier. Sounds reasonable enough, but I know a lot of people don't do any tweaking when they switch from one guitar to another, and wonder why the humbuckers don't sound as good as the single coils they were just playing through the same amp. You gotta adjust the amp for the guitar. Best of Luck, and welcome to the 535 club!

 

Those three pups you mention are great, but the BBs & Schallers I will pass on.

[pushover]

Just goes to show that beauty it is all in in the ear of the beholder.. I have the BB Pros in my Les Paul (ugly betty) studio and I really like them. They are brighter than duncan 59's I have in my 157, which for me is the whole point, The 157 originally had schallers in it, and I took those out because I really didn't like them at all. Poor tonal balance, and the neck one just sounded like mud (part of this is that something about my 157 is just boomy on the bass end, though that depends partly on the strings I'm using). I may be wrong in saying this, but my experience on this site is that as many people swap out their schaller pickups for something else as stick with them. I certainly did. I also have the HRW's on the milli-DC and they are nice. Much smoother and creamier than the others. I like each for different things.

 

As for the original post, I'm not sure you're going to know whether you like 'em till you try 'em. Unless there is something you particularly dislike the current sounds you're getting I wouldn't change anything right off. But if you're like most of us, you'll get the urge to tinker, and having those in your back pocket will probably eventually make you want to try them. How they sound on a particular guitar is a little hard to predict. I have 59's in my 157 and 535, yet each sound very different. The 535 is MUCH brighter than the 157.

[the jayce]

Thier all good pickups. It's kinda like flavors, what someone else loves some else will hate, in the end it's what you like. Dont torture yourself with research and opinions of others-let your ears make your decision. It's all about what YOU like. (That being said my vote would be on the shallers with out a doubt!).

[mark555]

For what I am trying to play and from my experiences with those pups, my answer would be NEITHER.

 

I have to agree with Kuz 100%. I bought a 555 with schaller's in it, and as soon as I could I had them removed. To me they were one of the worst pick ups I have heard in a quality instrument. I wouldn't buy burst buckers either, because they are just not my cup of tea, and I associate them (right or wrong) as the wrong pick up for Heritage guitars.

 

But who can tell you what to get? If you want a good vintage sound then do some research, ask us here which we like the best and why and just have a go. Personally, I think that with any really good pick up manufacturer, you won't go far wrong. Eventually I will put a phat cat in the neck slot of my 555. I presently have Seymour Duncan 59's in the 555 and they are great. But to be honest, I just wanted rid of the schallers and at the time I was pretty strapped for cash and the 59's came up on e bay at $40 each, so I bought them and my daughters brought them home from the states with them as they were out there for the summer.

[smurph1]

I like Schallers, but it is a PIA to change pickups in a semi, So I would recommend giving the Burstbuckers some time..If after a while you can't stand em, then move on..My 2 cents..Rock On!!

[PHILIP]

This is my first post just joined today, I have been a Gibson guy for years, recently got my first Heritage.

The Schaller pickups are not bad pickups, I would say they are most similar in qualities to the Gibson 57 Classics,

I have tried many different pickup in last few years,

in semi hollow body guitar I like 57 Classics,

in my hollow body guitars I like P 90's,

in my humbucker solid body guitars I like GuitarfForce Force 59's great sound and great value, Throwbacks are good but a little expensive, I love vintage early 80's Tim Shaw PAF reissues and also like vintage 70's T tops,

but remember the pots and caps are also very important in getting the best sound from your guitar, pickups are your engine and the pots, wiring and caps are your transmission, good CTS pots and vintage PIO caps make a big difference to your tone, also setting up your pickup hight is crucial in getting the best performance from them. I hope this helps.

Philip

[Guest mgoetting]

This is my first post just joined today, I have been a Gibson guy for years, recently got my first Heritage.

The Schaller pickups are not bad pickups, I would say they are most similar in qualities to the Gibson 57 Classics,

I have tried many different pickup in last few years,

in semi hollow body guitar I like 57 Classics,

in my hollow body guitars I like P 90's,

in my humbucker solid body guitars I like GuitarfForce Force 59's great sound and great value, Throwbacks are good but a little expensive, I love vintage early 80's Tim Shaw PAF reissues and also like vintage 70's T tops,

but remember the pots and caps are also very important in getting the best sound from your guitar, pickups are your engine and the pots, wiring and caps are your transmission, good CTS pots and vintage PIO caps make a big difference to your tone, also setting up your pickup hight is crucial in getting the best performance from them. I hope this helps.

Philip

 

Welcome, Philip. What style do you play?

 

What some guidelines for setting pickup height? I've been told to set them low for a clean sound and high for distortion.

[Guest mgoetting]

I have to agree with Kuz 100%. I bought a 555 with schaller's in it, and as soon as I could I had them removed. To me they were one of the worst pick ups I have heard in a quality instrument. I wouldn't buy burst buckers either, because they are just not my cup of tea, and I associate them (right or wrong) as the wrong pick up for Heritage guitars.

 

But who can tell you what to get? If you want a good vintage sound then do some research, ask us here which we like the best and why and just have a go. Personally, I think that with any really good pick up manufacturer, you won't go far wrong. Eventually I will put a phat cat in the neck slot of my 555. I presently have Seymour Duncan 59's in the 555 and they are great. But to be honest, I just wanted rid of the schallers and at the time I was pretty strapped for cash and the 59's came up on e bay at $40 each, so I bought them and my daughters brought them home from the states with them as they were out there for the summer.

 

 

I'm not as tone savvy as many, so keep that in mind.

 

SD Seth Lovers have been my default pups. HRWs on my 555 sound good also. I play mostly clean jazz though.

 

I'm starting to like P-90s on an archtop.

[PHILIP]

Welcome, Philip. What style do you play?

I play a mix Classic Rock some R&B, old POP and some other stuff, but no Heavy Metal

 

What some guidelines for setting pickup height? I've been told to set them low for a clean sound and high for distortion.

 

first I balance the pickups volume in the middle switch position by adjusting there heights, then I like to lower both pickups about an eighth of an inch from this point, Then I unscrew the pole screws to get them closer to the strings keeping in-line with the radius of the board, I unscrew the pole screws about an eighth of an inch, I then listen for each strings individual volume and tweak from there, takes a little time to get the sweet spot, but its well worth the effort

[Guest mgoetting]

first I balance the pickups volume in the middle switch position by adjusting there heights, then I like to lower both pickups about an eighth of an inch from this point, Then I unscrew the pole screws to get them closer to the strings keeping in-line with the radius of the board, I unscrew the pole screws about an eighth of an inch, I then listen for each strings individual volume and tweak from there, takes a little time to get the sweet spot, but its well worth the effort

 

What is the thinking there? There's two coils per pup. Why distance one that far from the strings?

[barrymclark]

It depends on the Burstbucker. The Burstbucker 1 through 3 use AlNiCo 2 but with graduating resitances but the Burstbucker 5 is basically like the Schaller Golden 50 but it has more winds for the bridge version.

 

The Schaller Golden 50 is basically like the old PAF with regards to the windings but the magnet is an AlNiCo 5 which isn't as soft sounding as the AlNiCo 2 magnet which you'd find in the Seth Lovers or PAF's or 57 Classics. Although I like the Golden 50s, I gotta say I prefer the subtle difference of the Seth Lovers or 57's or the like. Not a huge difference, but I do like the softer sound.

[PHILIP]

What is the thinking there? There's two coils per pup. Why distance one that far from the strings?

gives them the nice unbalanced coil tone, try it out when you have the time to tweak them and I think you will be pleased with the result.

[FredZepp]

Yes Steve.... the type of music and desired tone are going to help you narrow this down.

I love Sheptone pickups for a vintage unpotted sound. But then again , there are soooo many good ones now.

 

BTW .. Welcome onboard Phillip, I do a similiar thing to set up the pickups, although not as specific on the measurements.

 

I find that pickups too close to the strings, for me, is a tone killer to a degree. The magnetic field of the polepieces reduces sustain and the natural vibration of the string. It is not like the old days , now that amps have a lot of gain available and making the pickup drive the front end is not a main focus anymore. And , of course , pickups tend to be pretty hot anyhow these days.

[barrymclark]

The magnetic field of the polepieces reduces sustain and the natural vibration of the string. It is not like the old days , now that amps have a lot of gain available and making the pickup drive the front end is not a main focus anymore. And , of course , pickups tend to be pretty hot anyhow these days.

+1

[NoNameBand]

Hi,

 

I just acquired a 1998 Heritage 535. The guy I bought it from changed out the original Schaller pickups for burstbuckers. He gave me the original Schaller pickups that are in mint unused condition. I am looking for opinions on the difference in tone. I know tone is subject to much debate but I have never heard the Schallers in action, so I am looking for opinions on who would switch them back and why.

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

Hi Steve, I have a H-535 with Seth Lovers. These seem to be a popular choice for the semi-hollow body. They sound great and I would never change them. Regarding Burst Buckers 1, 2 & 3, I have found them to be harsh or shrill sounding especially, BB #2 & BB #3 in the bridge position. I have replaced all of them with various choices depending on the guitar. In addition to the Seymour Duncan Seth Lover, I very much like the Gibby Classic 57's, Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates and Lindy Fralin Pure PAF's. I probably like the Gibby Classic 57's in a semi-hollow body as much as the Seth Lovers, very similar. If I were to put them in the guitar and deal with the semi-hollow body replacement ordeal, I would probably go with the Gibby Classic 57's only because they are wax potted and will resist feedback more the the Seth Lover. I know a lot of guys like the HRW's as well. It might be worth asking if Ren would install a pair for you if you wanted. I've not had any problem with feedback with my 535, I'm just saying that a wax potted pickup will feedback less.