check your f holes

[Guest mgoetting]

We've discussed this a little before.

 

I'm curious how many of our guitars have unstained, unfinished areas at the rim of the f holes. Not the tops but on the way inward.

 

I'm guessing a fourth of Heritage guitars have these spots.

 

I don't know how that would be due to taping. But I'm at a loss to explain this phenomenon.

 

Fortunately or not, the player really is the only one to see this in most situations.

 

Comments?

[Kuz]

Never looked.

 

I guess when I play them I am too busy caught up in their incredible tone or looking at the fretboard!!!!

[FredZepp]

Mine seems fine...

[pushover]

I know exactly what you mean. My 535 has exactly this issue. But since I'm the only one who can see it, and since it sounds/plays awesome, who cares..

[Guest mgoetting]

I know exactly what you mean. My 535 has exactly this issue. But since I'm the only one who can see it, and since it sounds/plays awesome, who cares..

 

 

Ren Wall made that point to me by asking, "Does that bother you?"

 

I was so caught off guard I didn't follow through and ask how it happens. I'm not really bothered much by it, but I am curious.

 

Does anyone know what the explanation is? And why doesn't the guitar chamber get stain and lacquer in it?

[schundog]

"check your f holes..."

 

Mark, I get kinda skittish when someone like you, a doctor, tells me to do something like this...

[Steiner]

Mine seems fine...

 

Mighty Fine!

[High Flying Bird]

And why doesn't the guitar chamber get stain and lacquer in it?

 

[Guest mgoetting]

 

 

Then why are the sides of the f holes sometimes missed?

[Kuz]

Then why are the sides of the f holes sometimes missed?

 

My 1965 335 didn't have the F holes completely painted either (although I believe my Heritages are). It just the way the paint hit the F holes. Either it gets sprayed all the way or it doesn't. They probably don't think about it when they shoot it.

 

So to quote Ren, "Does it bother you?" LOL

[Gitfiddler]

To me if the F-holes are not 100% plain, stained, painted or bound, then the whole job looks unfinished and unprofessional. If Ren does not care about those little details, then that feature will continue to exist on instruments leaving the factory.

 

The F-holes on two of my Heritages (including my brand new H-530) share that incomplete look to a minor degree.

 

Does it bother me? Yes. Will I ever do anything about it? Probably not.

 

Gibson sometimes blackens the interior of un-bound F-holes. At least the job looks like it was completed. But don't get me started on Gibson QC boo boos.

[barrymclark]

I think mine might have those unfinished spots... but I guess lack of surety shows about how much it bothers me. haha.

[skydog52]

I have always like the bound f holes. More finished look. IMHO.

Say something to them. They have always listened.

[mark555]

Mine seems fine...

 

Fred - what a stunningly beautiful guitar you have there.

[mark555]

Do you know, I havbe never considered it, will have to look. But the 555 does have bound f holes, I think the edges of the holed should always be finished with care and detail.

[GuitArtMan]

I think any finish in unbound f holes is over spray and doesn't bother me one bit. That said, I do like the look of bound f holes better.

[smurph1]

I'll check my 535 when i get home..But honestly, when i plug it in it doesn't matter..YMMV

[Kuz]

I think any finish in unbound f holes is over spray and doesn't bother me one bit. That said, I do like the look of bound f holes better.

 

Maybe much better said than my two other posts. I completely agree and like the bound F holes better too (like on my 555). +1

[Gitfiddler]

Bound F-holes are my favorite also. As for the issues with unbound holes, they need to be as finished as the rest of the guitar IMHO. Look at Collings guitars. Amazing fit and finish everywhere on all instruments. That is the level I'd like see our beloved Heritage guitars to be. They already have that mysterious mojo factor going on. And the quality has improved measurably over the years. This is a small detail, but one that reflects positively or negatively on the entire instrument. My comments are not a rant. They are simply a recommendation.

[yoslate]

Then why are the sides of the f holes sometimes missed?

 

 

Not making excuses. Just guessing here, but.... I used to shoot spray paint in an industrial context. It's trickier than one might think. The top and the inside edge of the "F"hole represent different, but adjacent, planes, with the "F"hole being a much smaller surface, accessible only through a small aperture. Trying to cover that will result on over-spray just around the "F"hole. That overspray will, of course, be on the top, where a uniform finish is the priority. This is especially problematic on the bursts or those finishes which are translucent. Too much finish around the "F"hole will affect the application of the finish on the rest of the top, something, which Heritage does very, very well. I'm not saying there isn't a solution, maybe even a simple one. But the issue is a little more involved than it may appear, at first glance.

[Kuz]

OK, so I did my diligence and checked my 535, 575, and 525 (the 555 has bound F holes).

 

Not trying to sound like a homer here, but mine are stained/painted/finished ever where and complete.

 

There are some area where the wood didn't absorb the die/paint as well and it appears lighter in color, but they are completely finished throughout.

 

As a side bar, I would like to see some pics of the unfinished F holes in question.

 

Thanks

[Patrick]

Not making excuses. Just guessing here, but.... I used to shoot spray paint in an industrial context. It's trickier than one might think. The top and the inside edge of the "F"hole represent different, but adjacent, planes, with the "F"hole being a much smaller surface, accessible only through a small aperture. Trying to cover that will result on over-spray just around the "F"hole. That overspray will, of course, be on the top, where a uniform finish is the priority. This is especially problematic on the bursts or those finishes which are translucent. Too much finish around the "F"hole will affect the application of the finish on the rest of the top, something, which Heritage does very, very well. I'm not saying there isn't a solution, maybe even a simple one. But the issue is a little more involved than it may appear, at first glance.

 

Bingo!! This reply hit it dead nuts on. The focus and emphisis is on the shading . . . not the F holes. If you've ever watched the process . . . the craftsman . . . artisan is probably more appropriate . . . has just 1 chance to get it right. I'm quite sure that getting the insides of the f hole isn't even on his mind. It probably happens as an unintended result of spraying the top. The only way to totally ensure complete coverage inside the unbound f holes, is to create another step in the process . . . either before, or after the shading. Mo money . . . Mo money . . . Mo money.

 

In my opinion, those unbound f holes which are "blacked out" create an unnatural and cheap look on a guitar. I've seen the "raw and unfinished" wood areas on Guilds, Gibsons, Heritages. To expect a guitar builder to create another step in the manufacturing process of what is really meant to be a lower end offering, is in my opinion unreasonable and unrealistic. It will add to their cost and they'll have to pass that on to the buyers. That's why the higher end Gibson and Heritages have binding in the f holes. If someone doesn't like the look, pay for binding on the 535s at the time of building.

[smurph1]

Bingo!! This reply hit it dead nuts on. The focus and emphisis is on the shading . . . not the F holes. If you've ever watched the process . . . the craftsman . . . artisan is probably more appropriate . . . has just 1 chance to get it right. I'm quite sure that getting the insides of the f hole isn't even on his mind. It probably happens as an unintended result of spraying the top. The only way to totally ensure complete coverage inside the unbound f holes, is to create another step in the process . . . either before, or after the shading. Mo money . . . Mo money . . . Mo money.

 

In my opinion, those unbound f holes which are "blacked out" create an unnatural and cheap look on a guitar. I've seen the "raw and unfinished" wood areas on Guilds, Gibsons, Heritages. To expect a guitar builder to create another step in the manufacturing process of what is really meant to be a lower end offering, is in my opinion unreasonable and unrealistic. It will add to their cost and they'll have to pass that on to the buyers. That's why the higher end Gibson and Heritages have binding in the f holes. If someone doesn't like the look, pay for binding on the 535s at the time of building.

+1.. In the end it's about tone isn't it?

[TalismanRich]

I checked both my 535 and my Mille LE. Both are stained on the inside, and appear to have some lacquer on them. However, being porous, it is rough texture.

 

Obviously they can't get inside the F holes with that 12" buffer wheel (SHAME!)

 

Oh yeah... does it bother me? I think not!

[Thundersteel]

This isn't about f-holes, but every H150 w/P90s I've seen has the same problem, except the concerned area is between the neck and the neck pup. Why?