Swapping out HRWs on 535

[VJonathan]

I have two questions.    Has anyone swapped out HRWs on a 535?  I have heard they are tricky to remove due to the double post screws.

I would like to replace them with either Duncans or Lollar Imperials. The HRW's are just too muddy at high volumes. Have any of you conducted any such tests with this guitar?

Many thanks in advance for your input!

[JohnCovach]

The double post screws are not the problem; it's getting at the volume pots to which the pickup wires are soldered.  The shortcut is to merely clip the wires at the pickup cavity and splice the new pickup in there.  Purists will object, but the loss of tone is negligible at most.

 

I'll bet you'll have some takers if you want to sell those HRW's here.

[GuitArtMan]

No problem at all.  You might need some new pickup rings but that's it.  I swapped mine out for Duncan Seth Lovers (which come with pickup rings).  The Seths are the tits in a semi-hollow body.

[slider313]

I just swapped the stock Schallers with Seth Lovers in my 555. The hard part is working through the f hole to remove and replace the pickup wires and getting the pots back into the guitar when your done. I happened to have a couple of surgical clamps which helped. Not an easy job by all means and you need to be very patient as it takes some time. The reason most shops charge more to do work on a hollowbodys electronics.

[cosmikdebriis]

I just swapped the stock Schallers with Seth Lovers in my 555. The hard part is working through the f hole to remove and replace the pickup wires and getting the pots back into the guitar when your done. I happened to have a couple of surgical clamps which helped. Not an easy job by all means and you need to be very patient as it takes some time. The reason most shops charge more to do work on a hollowbodys electronics.

 

I've not worked on a 535 but on hollow bodies I...

 

Remove strings...

Loosen pickups...

Remove control knobs...

Use electrical tape to attach approx 2ft of string to each pot shaft.  (where the knob was)

Remove the nuts/washers that secure the pots and slide them up the string towards the free end.

Similarly attach string to the output jack and then loosen nuts etc.

Attach string to selector switch and loosen nuts etc.

 

Then remove entire assembly through pickup cavities making sure you keep the free ens of the string from falling into the guitar.

 

To re assemble... Pull the sting and components will follow back through the holes.

 

It's a lot easier than it sounds

[JohnCovach]

Yes, and it's easier on a 575 style guitar than with a 535.  It all comes out through the pickup cavity, which is pretty narrow.  You really have to be sure that as you work the components out and back in that you don't mess up one of the solder joints on the components you are not working on.  The trickiest part is the output jack.  The strings help enormously, unless they come loose!  Patience is the key; I have seen experienced repair guys reduced to swearing and frustration over this job.  I had pretty good luck the last time I did one of these, but it's not the kind of job you want to begin at the end of a bad day.

[Thundersteel]

I'll bet you'll have some takers if you want to sell those HRW's here.

 

 

Count me in!

[VJonathan]

Gentlemen:  Thank you for your input.  This task sounds more than what I had anticipated.  If I decide to keep this guitar,  I'll have an experienced tech do the dirty work and let you all know when I post the HRWs for sale.  On the other hand, if the whole process turn out to be a pain, I'll just sell the guitar.  Those pickups are not what they are cracked up to be for this particular instrument.  However, they do sound great on my  Eagle Classic!  Will keep you all posted. Regards, VJ

[SouthpawGuy]

I have two questions.    Has anyone swapped out HRWs on a 535?  I have heard they are tricky to remove due to the double post screws.

I would like to replace them with either Duncans or Lollar Imperials. The HRW's are just too muddy at high volumes. Have any of you conducted any such tests with this guitar?

Many thanks in advance for your input!

 

Gentlemen:  Thank you for your input.  This task sounds more than what I had anticipated.  If I decide to keep this guitar,  I'll have an experienced tech do the dirty work and let you all know when I post the HRWs for sale.  On the other hand, if the whole process turn out to be a pain, I'll just sell the guitar.  Those pickups are not what they are cracked up to be for this particular instrument.  However, they do sound great on my  Eagle Classic!  Will keep you all posted. Regards, VJ

 

Interesting that you find the HRWs muddy in your 535.

I have HRWs in my Millennium and I find them brighter than the SD 59s' in my 535.

I also have '59s in a 575 Custom and they have a suitably fat warm tone in that.

What kind of tone are you looking for from the 535 .... Clapton Cream era, Larry Carlton Room 335 or maybe classic Rock'n'Roll Chuck Berry like tones ?

It would be nice to get a handle on why some players prefer the SD '59 / Seth Lovers to the HRWs.

Regards ....

[squawken]

Interesting that you find the HRWs muddy in your 535.

I have HRWs in my Millennium and I find them brighter than the SD 59s' in my 535.

I also have '59s in a 575 Custom and they have a suitably fat warm tone in that.

What kind of tone are you looking for from the 535 .... Clapton Cream era, Larry Carlton Room 335 or maybe classic Rock'n'Roll Chuck Berry like tones ?

It would be nice to get a handle on why some players prefer the SD '59 / Seth Lovers to the HRWs.

Regards ....

 

I just tried out a 140 that had the HRW's in it, and really wasn't impressed.  I read a lot about them here at HOC and was very curious to try them.  But I didn't find them be much different from the 59's in my 150.  I couldn't justify the extra cost for those pickups versus the tone difference from the 59's.  The clean tones were very nice, but I also need them for distortion.  So what am I missing, and what's wrong with me?

[slider313]

I just tried out a 140 that had the HRW's in it, and really wasn't impressed.  I read a lot about them here at HOC and was very curious to try them.  But I didn't find them be much different from the 59's in my 150.  I couldn't justify the extra cost for those pickups versus the tone difference from the 59's.  The clean tones were very nice, but I also need them for distortion.  So what am I missing, and what's wrong with me?

 

I haven't had the chance to try HRW but I did have a set of '59's in my 140 and at the same time, stock Schallers in my 555. To my ear the Schallers sound very close to the '59 but with less detail and clarity. I could tell the overall character of the two pickups were very, very similar. Maybe the HRW's and the '59's are even closer in sound ??

[VJonathan]

The Heritage 535 is characteristically brighter in tone compared to the 335, and the HRWs IMHO do not do it justice.  The G335 is more resonant due to a larger body cavity. Therefore, one must find the right pup to compliment the 535 so it sounds more resonant. That is a journey I must pursue.  I have always liked the Ford/Carlton 335 tone, and the HRWs just don't do it.

[SouthpawGuy]

I haven't had the chance to try HRW but I did have a set of '59's in my 140 and at the same time, stock Schallers in my 555. To my ear the Schallers sound very close to the '59 but with less detail and clarity. I could tell the overall character of the two pickups were very, very similar. Maybe the HRW's and the '59's are even closer in sound ??

 

Hi slider ....

In my own experience the '59s and HRWs are a totally different animal.

The HRWs are higher output ( 20 - 30 % ? ) and they sound a lot brighter, I haven't cranked mine up to gig levels but they are clearer and more articulate, especially in high gain sounds.

Somebody suggested that the HRWs are more hi fi almost like an active pickup, but I have a LP with active Shadow EQ5s and an ESP S800 "Super Strat" with an EMG-89 coil tap humbucker in the bridge and the HRWs don't sound anything like those.

Anyway ... nice discussion, tone is after all subjective and it's good to hear other peoples experiences.

 

VJonathan ...

Seems like you are looking for a particularly bright sounding humbucker ?

Have you checked out the Duncan website

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/audio...humbuckers_and/

You can download MP3 clips of their entire humbucker range and compare them side by side, very useful indeed.

Regards ...

[squawken]

I haven't had the chance to try HRW but I did have a set of '59's in my 140 and at the same time, stock Schallers in my 555. To my ear the Schallers sound very close to the '59 but with less detail and clarity. I could tell the overall character of the two pickups were very, very similar. Maybe the HRW's and the '59's are even closer in sound ??

 

I agree somewhat with Southpawguy.  They did seem more articulate and clear.  I was also at a disadvantage that I wasn't playing on my own amp.  Then I could give a more definite opinion.  I also tried another 140 at the store that seemed grungier but I have no idea what pickups were in that one.  If am truly interested in buying the store lets me bring in my amp and really give it a test run!

[slider313]

The Heritage 535 is characteristically brighter in tone compared to the 335, and the HRWs IMHO do not do it justice.  The G335 is more resonant due to a larger body cavity. Therefore, one must find the right pup to compliment the 535 so it sounds more resonant. That is a journey I must pursue.  I have always liked the Ford/Carlton 335 tone, and the HRWs just don't do it.

 

Well the Seth Lovers did the job for me in my 555. These came up at about 7.48K on my meter. I can actually use the neck pickup without any "woofyness". I had '59's in my 140 and couldn't use the neck pickup on it's own; and it read 7.25K. Granted '59's are wax potted and don't have the transparentness of the Seth's.

[VJonathan]

Do the Seth Lovers add any resonance to your 555?  I have them in my 150 and like the tone they produce in a solid body instrument.  These guitars (535/555) should have a resonance commensurate to their design characteristic...much like their 335 brother.    I guess this all boils down to personal taste.  Again, thanks for your input!

[slider313]

Do the Seth Lovers add any resonance to your 555?  I have them in my 150 and like the tone they produce in a solid body instrument.  These guitars (535/555) should have a resonance commensurate to their design characteristic...much like their 335 brother.    I guess this all boils down to personal taste.  Again, thanks for your input!

 

Yes, the guitar has more resonance than before. I feel it can breathe now. I believe the unpotted pickups sound better in this type of guitar.

[111518]

Thought I'd tack a section of a "trade secret" email I received from Stew Mac/Dan Erwine onto this thread about changing pickups in a semi-hollowbody.  He's talking about doing a quick pickup change on a cheap import.  The main thing I learned from it is that Gibson use to do the soldering on 335's through the f-holes!  This explains why gibson semi-hollows without f-holes always had access plates, I guess.

I thought maybe the factory prewired the harness and had some cool way of working it into the body, but apparently not.  I wonder how Heritage does it? 

 

My customer loves his 1996 Korean-made copy of a Gibson 335. He wants to upgrade it, but he’s on a no-frills budget: every dollar spent has to pay back in better sound. To get the biggest bang for the buck, I’m replacing the factory pickups with Golden Age humbuckers.

Every Golden Age humbucker comes with enough lead wire to reach the controls, but I’m not using it. Getting the electronics in or out of a semi-hollowbody is tricky as heck — it could take all afternoon!

 

It wasn’t easy for the factory, either: years ago at Gibson I watched 335 models being wired up. Connections were soldered by reaching through the F-holes — try to do that without damaging the guitar! Every bench had touch-up lacquer and brushes to repair occasional dings and nicks. Start looking very closely at the F-holes on semi-hollowbodies, and you’ll sometimes discover these finish repairs from the factory.

 

So don't even think about unwiring the control pots. Just clip the wire at the pickup, and reuse the leads that the factory put in there. Make the cut right next to the pickup, to leave as much slack as you can for wiring in the new pickups...