UGD

[602a]

No more NGS Sucks. Let's start a poll on what will happen to this 150. Give your best guesses. Winner gets to brag for 1 week. By the way thanks for all the positive post, it helped make a bad weekend alot better. Frank

[Guest mgoetting]

My prediction is that the dealer will offer you your money back or another H150.

 

Heritage will not try to fix your guitar and return it to you. They may refinish it an assign another serial number, destroy it, or mark it a second.

 

Heritage will not work with you directly but will help you through your dealer.

 

This is just my guess.

[Guest HRB853370]

It will die a quick and speedy death, and find itself resting eternally in guitar heaven. You will then be bestowed the Heritage of your dreams, quickly migigating all of the ugliness of the bad NGD you had last week!

[Patrick]

I think Mark is basing his guess/prediction of what will happen on his opinion of what should happen. I agree with all that he said, as I too believe that is what should happen. However, due to the age of this guitar and how long the dealer had it in their possession without reporting any of these obvious defects, it's really anybody's guess how it will be handled. I believe that both Heritage and the Dealer share equally in dropping the ball on this one. My hope is that Heritage will not allow any dispute between them and the Dealer to cause further inconveniences to 602a. If it was John D'Angelico's guitar, he would put it on the floor and put his foot through the top. He wouldn't want his name associated with anything like that.

 

They might strip it down, re-use the hardware and scrap the wood. If it was my call to make, I'd give it to one of the employees, tell him to fix it up and take it home with a "2" stamped on the back of the head stock. They need to make things right with 602a . . . then they can settle up with the dealer at their mutual satisfaction.

[tulk1]

You get stuck with it because the "dealer" never returns your calls/emails. You eventually put it up for sale on the HOC. Brent buys it because he can't pass up a Heritage guitar for sale. He then has it refinished into Silver Burst #4. Keeps it for 3 months. Sells it to someone that thinks it's the bomb!

[FredZepp]

You get stuck with it because the "dealer" never returns your calls/emails. You eventually put it up for sale on the HOC. Brent buys it because he can't pass up a Heritage guitar for sale. He then has it refinished into Silver Burst #4. Keeps it for 3 months. Sells it to someone that thinks it's the bomb!

 

That is quite funny.....

[mark555]

my crystal ball has clouded up! Can't wait to find out the end result though. The idea that Brent will get it at some point may have been hunourous, but there is many a true word spoken in jest!

[Guest HRB853370]

I think Mark is basing his guess/prediction of what will happen on his opinion of what should happen. I agree with all that he said, as I too believe that is what should happen. However, due to the age of this guitar and how long the dealer had it in their possession without reporting any of these obvious defects, it's really anybody's guess how it will be handled. I believe that both Heritage and the Dealer share equally in dropping the ball on this one. My hope is that Heritage will not allow any dispute between them and the Dealer to cause further inconveniences to 602a. If it was John D'Angelico's guitar, he would put it on the floor and put his foot through the top. He wouldn't want his name associated with anything like that.

 

They might strip it down, re-use the hardware and scrap the wood. If it was my call to make, I'd give it to one of the employees, tell him to fix it up and take it home with a "2" stamped on the back of the head stock. They need to make things right with 602a . . . then they can settle up with the dealer at their mutual satisfaction.

 

You cannot blame Heritage Guitar Company at this point. That is absurd. Heritage would be involved if the dealer complained that they shipped a second rate guitar. This incident is between 602a and the unethical dealer. Asking Heritage Guitar company to get involved in it is like saying, "I bought a Chevy from a dealer and I an unhappy, therefore I should call General Motors to see why they even shipped a defective car to the dealer in the first place". Of course there are statewide lemon laws for vehicles, but unfortunately, not for musical instruments.

[FredZepp]

The history of this particular 150, we will likely never know. And it plays a part in what happens to it....

 

I doubt that it will be repaired, but who knows.

 

I predict that it will lay around the plant for 25-30 years gathering dust.

I witnessed several old models with broken headstocks at the plant that suffer this fate...

[Patrick]

You cannot blame Heritage Guitar Company at this point. That is absurd. Heritage would be involved if the dealer complained that they shipped a second rate guitar. This incident is between 602a and the unethical dealer. Asking Heritage Guitar company to get involved in it is like saying, "I bought a Chevy from a dealer and I an unhappy, therefore I should call General Motors to see why they even shipped a defective car to the dealer in the first place". Of course there are statewide lemon laws for vehicles, but unfortunately, not for musical instruments.

 

Uh-uh skinslammer. You're absolutely wrong. It's not at all absurd to hold Heritage partially responsible. The guitar should have never been shipped out of the plant in the condition that the photos showed it to be. That's why Marv wanted the guitar sent back to him for his personal inspection. On the other hand, the dealer should have never waited some 3 years to contact Heritage about the defects. And, make no mistake about it. They were defects!! The manufacturer is ALWAYS responsible for defects in workmanship and materials. This needs to be worked out between Heritage and the Dealer . ..and I believe that it will be. Heritage has always been fair and reasonable in these situations and I believe that they will be in this one also.

 

It's not 602a's fault that the dealer misrepresented the condition of the guitar. But, it's also not the dealers fault for a majority of the defects the photos showed. The only thing I saw in the photos that was clearly the dealers fault was the rust and corrosion on the latches of the case. However, they did have a responsibility to disclose, to any buyer, the issues of the neck joint and the poor finish buffing.

 

Regarding your analogy of a Chevy and the dealer; it's a poor one. If I buy a Chevy from a dealer, that has never been sold, but was in their inventory for three years. . . .I still expect it to be in flawless new condition, with no defects in workmanship or materials. If it is not . . . then that's a GM issue and should be handles as such.

[602a]

This guitar was built in Nov of 07 and the dealer got it in the first part of 08 I think, {he said, she said} . The Dealer and factory should have inspected it close but they did not so this is where we end up. I refuse to lay Full blame on either party. The dealer at this time is being helpful with the last ting said was he would "eat this one" if he has to. For a small dealer I would hate to see this happen and I am sure Heritage will not let that happen. As Forrest Gump says " It Happens".

[blues]

Since it was sent back to Heritage,they should look at it to see if it left the plant like that. Who knows what kind or QA they have or what kind of documents they keep.If they have a work order that goes with each phase,such a finish,or what ever and is signed off on by each employee,then maybe they can trace it back. When I wanted to know who made the tailpiece on my 137dc the dealer did not know,put me in contact with Ren. I had to send a digital pick to Ren to see if he knew. So it dont sound like he could have just looked up a serial number and check out and data. Who knows if and how long they keep that info. Or they can say it did not leave the plant like that. I think the dealer will eat it. Heritage may give him another guitar. The dealer may have the final say on what he does if the ball is in his court. Guitar or money back.Worst case you should then be given the same option,cash or guitar.Best case heritage sends you a new one and an apology.

[602a]

Just got off the phone with Vince and it's about an hour away from delivery to Factory. He is going to check it soon as it arrives. Hopefully outcome will be known sometime today. Fingers and toes crossed. Yes gators have toes too.

[pegleg32]

Just got off the phone with Vince and it's about an hour away from delivery to Factory. He is going to check it soon as it arrives. Hopefully outcome will be known sometime today. Fingers and toes crossed. Yes gators have toes too.

 

Sounds like you are getting favorable reponses Gator. Good to know.

[602a]

Everyone involved has been great. No matter what the outcome Heritage builders, owners and this dealer have been great. That's one reason I play them.

[Guest mgoetting]

Everyone involved has been great. No matter what the outcome Heritage builders, owners and this dealer have been great. That's one reason I play them.

 

 

Let me dissent here. You are suffering a variant of the Stockholm syndrome, where hostages start to see their captors in a favorable light.

 

All of them screwed up. They are making corrections and being pleasant about it. If that's all it takes to be great these days, then I'm great too.

 

They are just being decent folks, like I expect everyone in the HOC to be.

 

Frank is exceptional. He is patient, kind and a reliable person to deal with. And he got me the perfect H150, which I appreciate every damned day!

[602a]

Let me dissent here. You are suffering a variant of the Stockholm syndrome, where hostages start to see their captors in a favorable light.

 

All of them screwed up. They are making corrections and being pleasant about it. If that's all it takes to be great these days, then I'm great too.

 

They are just being decent folks, like I expect everyone in the HOC to be.

 

Frank is exceptional. He is patient, kind and a reliable person to deal with. And he got me the perfect H150, which I appreciate every damned day!

Yes you are great. I'm about to start looking at OLD Roy. Just kiddin. That is one fine son of a gun though.

[Guest HRB853370]

Since it was sent back to Heritage,they should look at it to see if it left the plant like that. Who knows what kind or QA they have or what kind of documents they keep.If they have a work order that goes with each phase,such a finish,or what ever and is signed off on by each employee,then maybe they can trace it back. When I wanted to know who made the tailpiece on my 137dc the dealer did not know,put me in contact with Ren. I had to send a digital pick to Ren to see if he knew. So it dont sound like he could have just looked up a serial number and check out and data. Who knows if and how long they keep that info. Or they can say it did not leave the plant like that. I think the dealer will eat it. Heritage may give him another guitar. The dealer may have the final say on what he does if the ball is in his court. Guitar or money back.Worst case you should then be given the same option,cash or guitar.Best case heritage sends you a new one and an apology.

 

Doesn't Heritage use a final quality checklist, with accountability before shipment, such as what Gibson uses? Ya'll might knock the 900 LB gorilla for inconsistent quality, but I know my three Gibson Les Pauls all came with a pre-shipment quality checklist, with initials of who checked each aspect of the guitar. Only makes sense to do this.

[Guest mgoetting]

My impression is that the old style guitar maker also has old style book keeping. While visiting Heritage a couple of times I asked how many of a certain model did they or do they make. It was clear that they didn't track that.

 

Specifically, I wondered how many H160Vs they made in their history. I later asked about Little Ones. Very recently I asked how many Roy Clarks do they make in a year on average. None of these could be answered except in general terms (a couple dozen, maybe fewer).

 

I don't fault them. They don't need to know that information so why pay to track it? A large company does need to know.

 

I wouldn't expect them to be able to find paperwork on QA for a single H150 from 2007. It's a small enough company that the owners probably will remember who to blame though.

[602a]

OK Let's understand something. I Frank Sanford am not ticked anymore at Dealer, Heritage or anyone else. As one member said it is a great let down when you find, purchase and wait for that wonderful piece of wood that has been crafted into a playable instrument by HUMAN HANDS. There will always be faults with guitars and anything else a craftsman makes by hand. I was allowed to vent to other owners which was a great release. Yes I'm sad, because my guitar was not up to the standards I have always seen from Heritage, Will I stop buying or playing them? Hell No. These to me are the last real handmade quality solid bodies in this model made. I'll play one with a cracked and fixed neck {which I prefer not to do} before I will ever spend my money on anything from Gibson that was not made in Kalamazoo.

[602a]

OK Partial outcome has been made. Talked to Vince and he says he wants to talk to other owners and he thinks it's dealer abuse. Top is faded and wear on guitar came from dealer. Looks like money back from dealer and new search to begin. Will know for positive on Monday.

[Guest mgoetting]

Did you buy this on eBay?

[602a]

Did you buy this on eBay?

NO, straight from the dealer. To heck with it I'm gonna buy a Firebird X. Ha HA Rather play a cigar box model.

[Kuz]

OK Partial outcome has been made. Talked to Vince and he says he wants to talk to other owners and he thinks it's dealer abuse. Top is faded and wear on guitar came from dealer. Looks like money back from dealer and new search to begin. Will know for positive on Monday.

 

That's exactly what I thought would be the conclusion. Vince is a straight up guy. He will say when Heritage has made a mistake, but here it seems like the dealer was trying to push one over your head.

 

I would get my money back and run from this dealer.

 

Just my .02

[602a]

I'll save comment till this is resolved. Mommy always said If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. There is more behind this one than meets the eye. On both parts. I think one thought they had a Rube and the other wants to throw the Monkey