Is hand made really better than factory made

[lowendpurveyor]

Over the years I have been lucky to own many different types of guitars. I recently had a closer look at my Heritage, Gibson and Schecter (don't laugh) Les Paul style guitars.

 

I have to say no doubt that the Heritage and Gibsons sound better than the Schecter.

 

However, upon closer inspection of the control cavities I noticed a dramatic difference in the tidyness with which the guitars were put together.

 

The higher end guitars seem to have messy soldering with gobs of solder everywhere, while my Schecter just has the right amount of solder and neatly soldered joints.

 

Suprisingly the best built guitar in terms of putting the parts together seems to be the Schecter which is Korean made. The wiring and soldering were very tidy (perfect in fact) and overall I can't really find any faults in the way it was put together. The paint job is perfect, all the joints are perfect, the mechanical parts are perfect.

 

Now the quality of the materials is another matter. This is where I believe the greatest difference in the sound is. The higher end guitars seem to use thicker slabs of wood for the body and probably higher grade. As for the hardware and electronics the guitars seem comparable, the Schecter has Seymour Duncan Custom Custom pickups and a Tonepro bridge and tail piece, the tuners are Schecter locking tuners (haven't had a problem with them yet). But overall it is a suprisingly good guitar for the money. Granted the resell value is terrible compared to a high end brand name guitar.

 

This discovery made me think whether we put too much emphasis on the fact that a guitar is hand made and whether the price difference is justified. It seems at a large scale that maybe factories and machines can overall produce consistently higher quality than humans. With humans making typical human errors and leaving imperfections.

 

Many guitars coming out of Asian factories are very well put together and in fact better than many American and Mexican guitars. I know there will be plenty that disagree. But next time you take a closer look at guitars in the shop open the cavity and compare a Gibson or similar to a Schecter or Ibanez and see which one stacks up better.

[Blunote]

Most manufacturing companies know that mass produced product is more consistent, and thus more likely to meet the expectation of a customer. Having grown up around the auto industry I'll assure you that you wouldn't want the several million dollar hand built prototype car over the 20 thousand dollar production version.

 

But when it comes to guitars, like women....you appreciate them for their individual qualities. If they were all alike it would just not be interesting.

 

Guitars make music...God's language. It seems to me more fitting for that to be channeled though an instrument produced by the hand of a craftsman.

[ces]

its about how they sound. you said yourself that your Gibson & Heritage sound better than your Schecter.

 

also, if you think Gibson is not "factory" made, i disagree. theyre as assembly line large factory as it gets.

 

plus the guy who owns schecter is a dick.

[jmc7581]

Guitars make music...God's language. It seems to me more fitting for that to be channeled though an instrument produced by the hand of a craftsman.

Well said. Perfect.

[JeffB]

To hard to even start without generalizing and blanket statements.

Its easy to let romantic notions high jack the thought process.

Which ever guitar floats your boat and how ever its made wins the exchange of cash.

But after a lengthy talk about Heritage guitars today with another owner, and one observer, how ever Heritage make guitars seems to be a pretty good way.

Is any guitar really hand made?

[kbp810]

It all depends... who would you rather have building your guitar??/

 

 

Or...

 

[lowendpurveyor]

Most manufacturing companies know that mass produced product is more consistent, and thus more likely to meet the expectation of a customer. Having grown up around the auto industry I'll assure you that you wouldn't want the several million dollar hand built prototype car over the 20 thousand dollar production version.

 

But when it comes to guitars, like women....you appreciate them for their individual qualities. If they were all alike it would just not be interesting.

 

Guitars make music...God's language. It seems to me more fitting for that to be channeled though an instrument produced by the hand of a craftsman.

 

Beautifully said. But at the end of the day, I guess I care more about the result than the process.

[barrymclark]

Depends on the craftsman. Depends on the factory.

[mars_hall]

It all depends... who would you rather have building your guitar??/

 

 

Or...

 

 

 

Santa Claus in sneakers

[JeffB]

It all depends... who would you rather have building your guitar??/

 

 

A guy operating a machine or a guy monitoring a computer operating a machine?

[pegleg32]

The answer to the question is yes if it's well built, and no if it is not. Heritage does it very well.

[tbonesullivan]

Depends. I've had good experience with Factory/CNC made guitars like my Carvin guitars, Fender, and Gibson. I don't know how "hand-made" or "factory made" my 1993 Hamers are. In the end a guitar is a guitar. It's how it plays and sounds that is important.

[Halowords]

Depends. I've had good experience with Factory/CNC made guitars like my Carvin guitars, Fender, and Gibson. I don't know how "hand-made" or "factory made" my 1993 Hamers are. In the end a guitar is a guitar. It's how it plays and sounds that is important.

 

With Carvin, Hamer, and Heritage for that matter, how much of that is volume and attention to detail? I wonder how much of it is Hand Made vs. Factory Made and just mass volume compared to smaller shops that might generally notice more or be custom shops that pay more attention to the fit & finish. The nice thing about hand-made in a smaller-volume shop with craftsmen doing their jobs is that the person can pay attention to details a computer might miss and a certain level of that human element is desirable to some (most?) in the uniqueness that you don't get in CNC. Of course, there is something to the precision and reproducibility (not to mention efficiency) of CNC or other computer/machine-guided processes, so that should not totally be ignored.

 

But in general, I'd say hand made by true craftsmen who can take their time and make something that is truly special will be better than something made by machines or even people working in an assembly line factory setting whose primary goal is efficiency and NOT necessarily making the best possible item.

[GuitArtMan]

What does "hand made" mean? No CNC machines? No pattern tracing machines? No power tools? No tools at all? Seriously what does hand made mean? Is there a notion that somebody actually makes a guitar with his bear hands without the use of tools? That's ridiculous. Is a hole drilled with an auger better than a hole driller with a power drill? Are both better than a hole drilled with -gulp- CNC carver? Is a fingerboard planed with a hand plane better than a fingerboard planed by radiusing block Are both better than a fingerboard planed by -gulp- a CNC machine?

 

Better tools allow a good craftsman to do a better job - plain and simple. Most of your small boutique builder are using CNC machines to do the rough work: Tom Anderson, Don Grosh, John Suhr, Terry McInturff, Ron Thorn, Bill Collings, Olsen guitars, PRS, the list could go on and on. Theses guys all use CNC machines, but there is also an incredible amount of hand work involved. The finial fit and finish and assembly is done by hand. The notion that non-hand made means some giant robotic factory is absurd. Sure there maybe factories cranking out guitars like that overseas, but as you already pointed out they did a good job. One thing I see in the small guys ( can't say I look at the cheap import) is consistency. A TA standard neck is going to feel like a TA standard neck. And fit and finish and set up will be flawless. I've visited Tom Anderson's shop and taken the Taylor Guitars tour several times. Both these guys use a lot of automation and hand work combined and turn out some great guitars.

 

I think quality materials with quality assembly is far more important than being "hand made" - whatever that means.

[smurph1]

I have both a "handmade" (Heritage H-535) and a "factory made" (Gibson Les Paul TV w/P-90's) and I like them both, but for different reasons..Different tone!! The 535 to me, just screams quality!! The fit, feel and tone are second to none..When I play the blues on that thing, it's like I went to heaven and am hanging out with Robert Johnson!! The Gibby on the other hand, while having it's own mojo doesn't even compare as far as fit and finish, but the pickups are to die for!! chimey, bitey and downright nasty if need be..So I say they both have a place in this discussion..viva la Difference!! My 2 cents

[Spectrum13]

Going back to the original posted question...if I may. A larger production line can allow for specific tasks like the assembly of pots and caps to be performed by a specific person or persons. If that is the only thing they do, the execution should be uniform, clean and have that professional look. In a small shop one person must do mutiple tasks and that makes them more of a craftmen or fine instrument builder than an assembly line tech.

 

Doing repeated single tasks would not qualify as experience in designing or building an instrument, just a sub assembly. Understanding multi functions and being multi skilled leads to product and design inprovments and developes the knowledge to set up a assemble line or factory or pass down the knowledge to the next generation.

 

Ever wonder how ancient people built things we can't today? Might not have been aliens.

[FredZepp]

The answer in our case is more difficult than just answering the question.... which has several answers that could be true in any specific example.

 

 

But it is a package deal with Heritage. It's not just that it's not constructed on an automated machine or by someone making 40 cents an hour pay.

 

It's the overall attitude that makes them want to still make it the old way.

And that attitude translates into them wanting to buy better wood, like the old days.

And makes them want to create a finish that makes the craftsman proud of his work.

Or makes the hand shaped necks give that instrument a personality like the old days.

Or seeing that finished product and smiling because the people that made it enjoy the work.

 

A fine crafted instrument created by people that care.... not a common thing these days.

[eljay]

i am intrigued by the top quality of "hand-made" Hs and the top quality of carvins and rics, mfrs whose processes are highly automated. different paths to the same destination.

 

hand made is an appealing intangible . . . eljay

[LK155]

There are visible, tangible differences between a high-end CNC guitar and a Heritage.

 

I have a Suhr, which has a CNC'd body, a CNC'd neck, topnotch components, and lots of skilled hand assembly.

It is, from a coldly technical and clinical perspective, absolutely flawless. In a lot of ways, it is the ultimate Strat.

 

But pick up a Heritage, and you immediately see and feel the difference. Whereas the Suhr is like a perfectly-produced tool, the Heritage has warmth, soul, and personality. The degree of hand craftsmanship is palpable.

 

Yes, I have a Suhr, but I have two Heritages (soon to be three) that mean more to me.

[pcovers]

It has already been well established, on many forums, that there is no universal definition of "hand made". I know that is not comfortable for some, but it is the fact. You might have a definition for you, but I guarantee it is not likely an agreed upon universal definition. So, when asking a crowd, is hand made better than factory made, the answers presumes a certain agreed upon concept of both. But once the devil in the details becomes unmasked, it can be a discussion of apples and oranges.

 

Aside from that, to some it is equal parts romance and lore as it is fit and finish. That is certainly okay, but it makes even the simplest of questions even more moot when considering the answers. Facts are, there are quite a few respected, trusted players that have played and owned "factory" made Korean guitars that put them up as equals in quality and tone to "hand made" guitars. I have had quite a few guitars commissioned by names most here would know, and the outcomes have not been universal in quality and tone, despite having the pixie dust of wonderment sprinkled by the one man shop.

 

I love my Heritage. I really do. But I am not much into the lore and wonderment of it all. I like what they build, however they build them. My experiences with factory and "hand made" tell me there is no rule of thumb when trying to decide which offers a greater likelihood of tone, fit, and finish. But if romance and lore and the value of feelings associated with a brand are important, then I completely understand the preference of one over the other.

[barrymclark]

I stand by my previous assertion: it depends on the craftsman and it depends on the factory.

[smurph1]

It has already been well established, on many forums, that there is no universal definition of "hand made". I know that is not comfortable for some, but it is the fact. You might have a definition for you, but I guarantee it is not likely an agreed upon universal definition. So, when asking a crowd, is hand made better than factory made, the answers presumes a certain agreed upon concept of both. But once the devil in the details becomes unmasked, it can be a discussion of apples and oranges.

 

Aside from that, to some it is equal parts romance and lore as it is fit and finish. That is certainly okay, but it makes even the simplest of questions even more moot when considering the answers. Facts are, there are quite a few respected, trusted players that have played and owned "factory" made Korean guitars that put them up as equals in quality and tone to "hand made" guitars. I have had quite a few guitars commissioned by names most here would know, and the outcomes have not been universal in quality and tone, despite having the pixie dust of wonderment sprinkled by the one man shop.

 

I love my Heritage. I really do. But I am not much into the lore and wonderment of it all. I like what they build, however they build them. My experiences with factory and "hand made" tell me there is no rule of thumb when trying to decide which offers a greater likelihood of tone, fit, and finish. But if romance and lore and the value of feelings associated with a brand are important, then I completely understand the preference of one over the other.

WOW That was DEEP Dude!!

[Millennium Maestro]

I hate to use this analogy... NOT REALLY!! Handcrafted compared to CNC is like "Democrats being compared to Independants!!!" Two completely different birds.

In the past I would buy a Gibson knowing that it was easier to sell if I needed, I would get use to seeing the exact imperfection on each guitar I bought... Then I started buying Heritages, They would have imperfections too only they were made by an american doing his/her best to manufacture a quality instrument. Heritage has Heart!

As far as that overseas stuff, there is a reason why its usually affordable and the philosophy behind the design and consrtuction does not tie into my personal values... I do however own a few, they are really good at taking bumps and bruises and going places my nice hertiages dont deserve to go.

 

I am just a guy that always tries buys products made in North america... I am the flawed minority!

[Gitfiddler]

A while back, I started a thread about Vietnamese guitar makers in a tiny shack/factory. They made me think about Heritage and how they use only the most basic machinery for their wonder guitars. I'd prefer a little help from technology, as long as it is kept to a minimum AND the end product sounds and plays like my Heritages do. Guitars are the sum of many parts...including the hands that make them.

 

http://www.heritageo...__1#entry119729

All of their guitars are truly hand made. They do a pretty good job without the benefit of technology or machinery. This is one of the only 'machines' they have:

 

[pro-fusion]

CNC-ing the basic neck and body blanks is no big deal--just a time-saver, really. It's the small details of neck shapes and carved tops that separate handmade guitars from fully machine-carved ones, in my experience. A beginner wouldn't notice the difference, but I do. It seems like the luthiers at Heritage know how to make a neck that feels "just so"--almost like a living thing. And the great thing is, they're all unique. Every Heritage guitar is its own thing, with its own personality.

 

Also, as I get older I appreciate the quirks of my Heritages and vintage Jacksons (built back when Jackson/Charvel was a small-time operation). Some of those "quirks" might be described as quality lapses, but I love to look at my guitars and know that caring hands played a big part in making them.

 

The real problem with the Korean guitars is lumber selection. They are mass-produced, so all or most of the wood that goes in the factory door goes out as finished guitars. Small builders making expensive guitars can afford to be choosy with the lumber. In fact, they'd better be.