single piece backs on solid bodies

[Guest mgoetting]

I got a little history lesson from a GC manager a few days ago about Les Pauls, particularly split mahogany backs.

 

I looked at my H150 and it appears that it is one piece on the back.

 

How common is that on the 140/150/157/137/170s?

 

Thanks.

[dmedlock]

Mine's a one-piece back...most Gibson Les Pauls were too, up to a few years ago. I think only the Historics get one-piece backs now.

 

The new "Les Paul Studio 50's Tribute" guitars that everyone are all gung-ho over have 3-piece backs.

[Patrick]

I got a little history lesson from a GC manager a few days ago about Les Pauls, particularly split mahogany backs.

 

I looked at my H150 and it appears that it is one piece on the back.

 

How common is that on the 140/150/157/137/170s?

 

Thanks.

 

"whut chu talkin' 'bout Willis??" Not sure I understand the question Mark. How common is what? The 1 piece 150? The 2 piece LP? By the way, your knobs went out today .. . I apologize for the delay. . . been traveling.

[FredZepp]

Both of my 150's are one piece mahogany backs.

 

It seems fairly common, but they don't list that as a spec, so that they have the option of using 2 pieces.

Ren mentioned if you want a one piece when you order one, you can specify that.

[Guest mgoetting]

I brought this up because I don't recall seeing a two piece Heritage solid body, except the maple of course.

 

Fenders can easily have 3, even 4, pieces.

[Patrick]

I brought this up because I don't recall seeing a two piece Heritage solid body, except the maple of course.

 

Fenders can easily have 3, even 4, pieces.

 

Mark: If you know any thing at all about Heritage, there is usually very little "rhyme or reason" about things like that. They will usually look to build the backs with a single piece. But, if their stock on appropriate mahog is low, they are waiting for delivery, they will not hold off on starting a build. They'll grab 2 pieces glue'em up and start the build. (that's the way Jim Deurloo explained it at PSDPIII) I'd be curious about what the manager at that GC said pro or con regarding 2 piece vs 1 piece backs.

[Guest mgoetting]

I'd be curious about what the manager at that GC said pro or con regarding 2 piece vs 1 piece backs.

 

This is where we enter the Twilight Zone, where fact and fiction interchange seamlessly.

 

Here are two samples.

 

The manager stated that a single piece back resonates and sustains better.

 

Fender has a device that measures acoustic characteristics of its wood. You can custom order a single piece body. You can also ask them to use their device to find the best resonant body, be it single or multiple pieced.

 

I was impressed that he didn't go on further, like how you can order your neck carved when the moon is in the seventh house.

 

I never know what to believe at times like these.

[Patrick]

This is where we enter the Twilight Zone, where fact and fiction interchange seamlessly.

 

Here are two samples.

 

The manager stated that a single piece back resonates and sustains better.

 

Fender has a device that measures acoustic characteristics of its wood. You can custom order a single piece body. You can also ask them to use their device to find the best resonant body, be it single or multiple pieced.

 

I was impressed that he didn't go on further, like how you can order your neck carved when the moon is in the seventh house.

 

I never know what to believe at times like these.

 

 

If someone needs "a device" to measure the resonance of a guitar body, then the naked human ear probably can't, and won't detect a difference. With that in mind . . . other than aesthetic preferences .. . who cares if it has a 1 piece or a 2 piece body? Those differences also relate specifically to the collectors value of some vintage guitars. I've seen some Gibson Les Paul Deluxe models from the late 60s sell for as high as $16,000, because they had a 1 piece body and neck . . . while others from that era are bringing "only" $6,000. I could understand an Ithzak Perlman wanting to make sure he has the most tonally perfect piece of wood he can find for a violin . . . or Christopher Parkening for a classical guitar. But, the extent that some go through trying to drill down on the perfect solid body rock n roll guitar seems a bit over the top. But, then again, I guess that there is a fun factor in the pursuit of that perfect conquest, regardless of the type of instrument.

[111518]

If someone needs "a device" to measure the resonance of a guitar body, then the naked human ear probably can't, and won't detect a difference. With that in mind . . . other than aesthetic preferences .. . who cares if it has a 1 piece or a 2 piece body? Those differences also relate specifically to the collectors value of some vintage guitars. I've seen some Gibson Les Paul Deluxe models from the late 60s sell for as high as $16,000, because they had a 1 piece body and neck . . . while others from that era are bringing "only" $6,000. I could understand an Ithzak Perlman wanting to make sure he has the most tonally perfect piece of wood he can find for a violin . . . or Christopher Parkening for a classical guitar. But, the extent that some go through trying to drill down on the perfect solid body rock n roll guitar seems a bit over the top. But, then again, I guess that there is a fun factor in the pursuit of that perfect conquest, regardless of the type of instrument.

 

I agree with the spirit of this post, but when it comes to collector's value of instruments, scarcity and mythology both are at least as important as tone --and probably more. Those one-piece body/neck Deluxes are rare, and there is a mythology that Gibson was using up parts left over from first run of single-cut Pauls, so those guitars have a particular value as a sort of "next best" thing to a 50s-60 Paul. Same mythology is sometimes rolled out to explain the collector's value of '68 customs.

 

I'm intrigued by this machine that measures resonance ... wonder what the unit of measure is? Mojo's? Man, I wish I'd thought people would be gullible enough to ... just take the bathroom Taylor, replace the lb's scale with an inverse mojo scale (lighter = more mojos). I could have made a fortune, or at least sold 1.

 

Oh well ... missed opportunities, along with my idea of the inflatable Marshall Stack backline.

 

Well, off to the gym. Tipping the scale at few too few mojos lately.

[Spectrum13]

My 150 is one piece as was my early 68 Goldtop.

 

Couple months ago there was a thread on TGP from a well know custom builder who's available supply of hog was running low so he took a pole concerning 2 piece backs, would it be an issue for his customers. Tone wise he did not beleive it would make any difference as long as the two pieces came from the same part of the same tree. If a good builder knows what makes a great body wood by tapping one piece of wood, I assume tapping two, glueing them together and tapping again would be another skill any robot can learn with the latest mojo tester. The two piece maple tops should always be book matched.

[Patrick]

My 150 is one piece as was my early 68 Goldtop.

 

Couple months ago there was a thread on TGP from a well know custom builder who's available supply of hog was running low so he took a pole concerning 2 piece backs, would it be an issue for his customers. Tone wise he did not beleive it would make any difference as long as the two pieces came from the same part of the same tree. If a good builder knows what makes a great body wood by tapping one piece of wood, I assume tapping two, glueing them together and tapping again would be another skill any robot can learn with the latest mojo tester. The two piece maple tops should always be book matched.

 

Are you saying that 2 piece maple tops should always be book matched for tonal reasons, or aesthetic reasons? If for tonal reasons, what info drives that statement?

[Spectrum13]

Are you saying that 2 piece maple tops should always be book matched for tonal reasons, or aesthetic reasons? If for tonal reasons, what info drives that statement?

 

Patrick,

 

Both. Info from same thread on TGP "Hondouras Mahogany" 9/11/2010 by Terry McInturff when several builders talk about 2 piece vs 1 piece construction.

[Patrick]

Patrick,

 

Both. Info from same thread on TGP "Hondouras Mahogany" 9/11/2010 by Terry McInturff when several builders talk about 2 piece vs 1 piece construction.

 

Thanks!

[Kuz]

Three of the Four 150s I own have one piece backs.

 

The one that is a 2 piece back is my 150 Blur/quilt that I traded for used.

 

The other 3 I ordered specifically with one piece backs.

[big bob]

My 575 has a one piece mahogany back (tap tuned at that)

[pro-fusion]

I have this amazing inability to see the back of my guitar's body while I'm playing it.

[pcovers]

No evidence at all from any source in any fashion with any form of remotely empirical data that even hints at superior tone from one piece backs or tops over multi piece backs/tops.

[Kuz]

No evidence at all from any source in any fashion with any form of remotely empirical data that even hints at superior tone from one piece backs or tops over multi piece backs/tops.

 

I agree, but for resale/investment value it can be a deal breaker.

[pcovers]

I agree, but for resale/investment value it can be a deal breaker.

I agree. For me, I prefer the look of bookmatching to one piece grain swirl. But there is no arguing aesthetic preference.

[big bob]

No evidence at all from any source in any fashion with any form of remotely empirical data that even hints at superior tone from one piece backs or tops over multi piece backs/tops.

I would bet that the 1 piece Honduran mahogany back on my 575 sounds better than a two piece. any day! But it's not a solid body..

 

edit

The back on my 575 is the top of the top quality wood. I might guess that wood quality trumps one or two piece.

[pcovers]

I would bet that the 1 piece Honduran mahogany back on my 575 sounds better than a two piece. any day! But it's not a solid body..

 

edit

The back on my 575 is the top of the top quality wood. I might guess that wood quality trumps one or two piece.

 

How would "top" be measured to differentiate what is less than top?

[big bob]

How would "top" be measured to differentiate what is less than top?

 

You know "top of the world Ma"

 

sorry My (grammar) Bad

[FredZepp]

I had already determined that my two 150's and my 140 have a one piece back,

but I couldn't tell about the 157 (being finished black).

 

But after hours of research, I have determined that I can hear that it is a one piece back.

 

I had to imagine what a glue joint would do to the sound... creating incomplete and odd harmonics, cutting off the end of the sustained note in an un-natural and un-appealing way. And I have determined that my 157 doesn't exhibit any of those tendencies..so it must be a one piece,right?

 

 

 

 

But then this Heritage is obviously a 2 piece...no way to hide it...oh well..

 

[tulk1]

My custom ordered Millie NFH was supposed to have a one piece top and back. Didn't happen, even tho' it was spec'd that way. Don't really care about that, now, tho'. Faboo guitar, top is killer and like pro-fusion, I'm somewhat blinded to the backside when playing it.

 

 

[Halowords]

But then this Heritage is obviously a 2 piece...no way to hide it...oh well..

 

 

Well Fred, if you're asking for somebody to take it off your hands . . .

 

As for one vs. two vs. three piece, I don't know that it makes any difference, and even if it did I'm not good enough a player for it to make a difference, and with the electronics, room acoustics, and my own ears, I doubt I'm good enough to make a difference. Not to mention playing out. Most live crowds aren't the biggest discriminators when it comes to tone. FWIW, I've read arguments arguing for the pro's or con's of single, double, and triple piece guitar bodies, the glue in a set neck, the joint & bolts of a bolt-on neck, and how once you plug it into an amp and mess with the sound signal at all none of that is likely to make any real difference.

 

Still, Kuz makes a great point. For an investment or resale, that could be kind of a big deal. Rarity, perceived value, or the hard-to-define "Mojo" of a guitar can make a hyuge difference in what people are willing to pay for something.

 

On topic, I don't remember if I've even checked if my H-150 is a one- or two-piece back. I'll have to take a look at it. I remember reading up on what the differences were and there were people adamant about all the choices and people just as adamant it didn't amount to any difference. At that point, I just figured I didn't care and never really bothered paying much mind to it.