H 535 pups

[koula901]

Hi Folks,

 

I have this lovely new 535 with the High Order 2 pups. It gives me a very warm tone, a lot of clarity on the high notes; the bass notes aren't that punchy. When I hear it and play it, it makes me want to play blues/jazz, and you almost don't want to change it out because the tone is so pleasant. But the truth is, at this point in my life, I'm really much more into rock 'n' roll, ala Led Zep, Hendrix, ZZ Top. If I were to consider swapping out for more rock tones, a little bit better on pinch harmonics - what would you get? For something like better pinch harmonics, don't I want higher output pups? Something that'll push the amp more?

[Halowords]

If I were to consider swapping out for more rock tones, a little bit better on pinch harmonics - what would you get? For something like better pinch harmonics, don't I want higher output pups? Something that'll push the amp more?

 

If I could also piggyback off of that, would something a bit higher output be able to do both? I have been told HRW's are high-output, and can push the pre-amp really hard and are good for high-gain, but are also useful for jazz or blues or cleaner stuff if you roll back the volume. That might be an option.

 

I'm a bit in the same boat and considering getting HRW's and then swapping between those and my Sheptones and seeing which sounds & works better for my tastes & needs. But it's an interesting topic (to me at least).

[H]

Maybe the Phat Cats are calling out to you

[FrankV]

I've got the Seth Lovers on mine, don't know what part number they are, but they are really nice. I haven't gotten into the pinch harmonics as part of my playing yet, but it I use the bridge pickup I can get it to pinch and squeal all I want.

[111518]

Hi Folks,

 

I have this lovely new 535 with the High Order 2 pups. It gives me a very warm tone, a lot of clarity on the high notes; the bass notes aren't that punchy. When I hear it and play it, it makes me want to play blues/jazz, and you almost don't want to change it out because the tone is so pleasant. But the truth is, at this point in my life, I'm really much more into rock 'n' roll, ala Led Zep, Hendrix, ZZ Top. If I were to consider swapping out for more rock tones, a little bit better on pinch harmonics - what would you get? For something like better pinch harmonics, don't I want higher output pups? Something that'll push the amp more?

 

I don't know the High Order pickups, or the HRW's, but a source I find useful when I'm thinking about pickups is the comparison charts on the Duncan website. You can see his entire range of 'buckers (or other pickups), and compare specs --resistance, resonant peak, magnet type(there are also sound samples, but I don't trust my computer to tell me much about what anything sounds like.) The specs gives me a sense of the range of output/magnet type of a "vintage" bucker vs. a modern bucker. Other makers have similar charts, and I'm not necessarily advocating Seymour's pickups; it's just that he offers a wide range of artist-endorsed and targeted models so you can see the way that different specs differ for different models. For what it's worth, since you mention ZZ Top: his "Pearly Gates" 'bucker is slightly hotter than a vintage bucker, and has Alnico II magnets (ala vintage buckers.) I think the trade off with pickups is almost always --more output, less highs, so the higher freq. of pinch harmonics are not going to come from an ultra high output "modern" 'bucker --or, at least that's how I would interpret the information.

 

I have Duncan Antiquities on my 535, which I think are very similar to Seth Lovers ... To be honest, I'm not sure I can distinguish much difference between the ever-expanding varieties of quality PAF-style humbuckers. I well remember the mud of Super Distortions when they were the craze; those pickups forever cured me of wanting very high output 'buckers.

[smurph1]

I've got the Seth Lovers on mine, don't know what part number they are, but they are really nice. I haven't gotten into the pinch harmonics as part of my playing yet, but it I use the bridge pickup I can get it to pinch and squeal all I want.

Me too..I love 'em..I guess they realy are more of a bluesy type pickup, but I've had a lot of success doing classic rock tunes as well..As always, Your Mileage May Vary..

[pushover]

This is very much like asking someone whether they like people with blue eyes, or brown.

 

I have 59's in my 535, and for me they're perfect. I think they're a really good for making the guitar very versatile, and able to make a broad range of musical noises.

 

The usual caveat's about how your mileage may vary, and my (now) standard statement about how different PuP's sound different in each different guitar apply. But if you go into it with the idea of trying to identify the type of pickup that "you" like then you can have fun with it.

[tulk1]

I'd get a Dallas Rangemaster clone, turn that baby on and burn it up using the pups in it.

[High Flying Bird]

I'd get a Dallas Rangemaster clone, turn that baby on and burn it up using the pups in it.

 

Kenny has point here. I am not familiar with the Rangemaster but a buddy has a Dallas Arbiter product that I love.

 

I use a little box from BYOC, Build Your Own Clone, called a tri-boost. I want my highs to be there so I won't have a hopped up pickup in a guitar. In my 535s I have liked two varieties of stock Schallers and the HRWs. The Seth's in my old 150 were nice too. I am really liking the Phat Cats in my 357. I have liked all of these pick ups better when I use the tri-booster with them.

[mark555]

on my 555, I have two Seymour 59's. You say you are into ZZ Top, and Billy Gibbons doesn't seem to use high out put pick ups, pinched harmonics as you know doubt know are technique rather than anything else, although I will say that they seem to come easier with the very high output pickups found on some of the pointy headstock stuff. Although a Semi does tend to make you want to play certain styles, they are one the most versatile types of guitar there is. Let us know what you decide to do.

[Halowords]

Kenny has point here. I am not familiar with the Rangemaster but a buddy has a Dallas Arbiter product that I love.

 

I use a little box from BYOC, Build Your Own Clone, called a tri-boost. I want my highs to be there so I won't have a hopped up pickup in a guitar. In my 535s I have liked two varieties of stock Schallers and the HRWs. The Seth's in my old 150 were nice too. I am really liking the Phat Cats in my 357. I have liked all of these pick ups better when I use the tri-booster with them.

 

Hmmmmm . . . That's pretty interesting. Here's an article I found on the Rangemaster (not sure if they're readily available but it lists some clones and modern variants of the same basic premise):

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2007/Jan/The_Rangemaster.aspx

 

on my 555, I have two Seymour 59's. You say you are into ZZ Top, and Billy Gibbons doesn't seem to use high out put pick ups, pinched harmonics as you know doubt know are technique rather than anything else, although I will say that they seem to come easier with the very high output pickups found on some of the pointy headstock stuff. Although a Semi does tend to make you want to play certain styles, they are one the most versatile types of guitar there is. Let us know what you decide to do.

 

Angus Young has a similar sort of non-high-output setup from what I've read. Not that AC/DC was specifically mentioned, but at least a few rockers use pretty standard output gear and just overdrive it. Angus does it just by volume more or less (again, something he said in an interview, we don't really talk much or anything) and has just taken whatever stock pickups were in a guitar and worked with it. Dean DeLeo of STP from what I recall and understand (again, read it, don't get to talk with Dean much either) uses more vintage type of stuff and pushes it without high-processed or especially high-output or super-hot equipment.

 

Just throwing that out there in part because it might be useful, but also in part because I wonder both how much high-output pickups can be used to get that higher-gain range while perhaps also being able to clean up nicely if you turn back the volume, and how much a clean, warm, vintage, Jazzy/Bluesy pickup can be pushed (with OD, signal boost, volume, etc.) to be a more aggressive, growly, snarly, insert-superfluous-adjective, without sacrificing the desirable traits you might find in something like a Seth Lover or a really nice, warm, smooth pickup like I tend to like. Granted, if you're going to be playing Children of Bodom or Slayer, you might want to trade in your semi-hollow Jazz guitar with warm vintage pickups for a Jackson King V and EMG's, but it's not like you hear about Jimmy Page, Slash, Clapton (well, he uses actives now, but old school at least), or even early Metallica (I believe Ride the Lightning was recorded at least in part with a stock Gibson Flying V through a Mesa Boogie) using uber-hot gear.

 

Of course, if I'm wrong on any of this please feel free to correct me. I'm at least in part asking, not stating this as definitive proof.

[t0aj15]

My 535 came with Schaller p/up's which i disliked from the get-go. They made my rig sound like the proverbial heavy blanket over the speaker cab, just overall dark & muffled. After much searching, trying, internet study, et cetera I chose a matched set of Seymour Duncan 59's. It now is the most versatile guitar I own. In addition to great sound I can also get the best most easily controlled feedback of any guitar I've ever had (and I've had a lot). I wouldn't change it now for any reason.

[koula901]

Interesting. Thanks for your feedback, guys.

[rjsanders]

Hi Folks,

 

I have this lovely new 535 with the High Order 2 pups. It gives me a very warm tone, a lot of clarity on the high notes; the bass notes aren't that punchy. When I hear it and play it, it makes me want to play blues/jazz, and you almost don't want to change it out because the tone is so pleasant. But the truth is, at this point in my life, I'm really much more into rock 'n' roll, ala Led Zep, Hendrix, ZZ Top. If I were to consider swapping out for more rock tones, a little bit better on pinch harmonics - what would you get? For something like better pinch harmonics, don't I want higher output pups? Something that'll push the amp more?

 

pinchers are more of a righ...oops...picking hand kinda thing. i don't know High Order, but had no prob w/HRWs in my Millie DC.

 

what kind of amps? pedals you using?

 

[koula901]

pinchers are more of a righ...oops...picking hand kinda thing. i don't know High Order, but had no prob w/HRWs in my Millie DC.

 

what kind of amps? pedals you using?

 

 

Yup, I know that its a, in my case, a left-hand technique, and I've gotten them at certain times in certain guitars. It just seems easier w/some guitars than others. Anyway, using the Boss MD-2 (for high distortion), and the Boss SD-1 for light crunch/edge of break-up sound. Amp= Epi Valve Jr 1/2 stack, 5 watts (tube, EL 84). I just figured that before I start knocking myself out on my technique that maybe what I needed were higher output pups, as I always tend to get low output ones.

[rjsanders]

Yup, I know that its a, in my case, a left-hand technique, and I've gotten them at certain times in certain guitars. It just seems easier w/some guitars than others. Anyway, using the Boss MD-2 (for high distortion), and the Boss SD-1 for light crunch/edge of break-up sound. Amp= Epi Valve Jr 1/2 stack, 5 watts (tube, EL 84). I just figured that before I start knocking myself out on my technique that maybe what I needed were higher output pups, as I always tend to get low output ones.

 

 

(trying to avoid a pickup swap here...) have you tried the guitar with other amps? esp. ones w/Presence or Cut controls?

 

(i've tried a friend's 5w Epi combo and thought it pretty dark. 'course you have tone controls on the pedals...that can help)

 

have you written the High Order guy & asked him about that model of pickup vs. others of his?

 

my favorites lately (that i thought i could afford to try) have been WCRs. fillmores and crossroads...

 

tulk1 mentioned a rangemaster. a treble booster may be the ticket...

[High Flying Bird]

tulk1 mentioned a rangemaster. a treble booster may be the ticket...

 

I just checked and the Triboost has the Rangemaster in one of it's 3 positions.

[jjkrause84]

Like others have said, I don't think that high output is the answer....it's way too limiting. The right amp and/or the right OD pedal will get you anywhere you wanna go. An overly hot pickup has a reduced frequency response (or somethign...I'm not too technically minded!) which kills your clean tone, and even metalheads need clean from time to time.

 

Also remember that you almost always need less gain than you think....it's really easy to over-gain yourself into un-emotive mush, I know I've done it.

[FrankV]

Like others have said, I don't think that high output is the answer....it's way too limiting. The right amp and/or the right OD pedal will get you anywhere you wanna go. An overly hot pickup has a reduced frequency response (or somethign...I'm not too technically minded!) which kills your clean tone, and even metalheads need clean from time to time.

 

Also remember that you almost always need less gain than you think....it's really easy to over-gain yourself into un-emotive mush, I know I've done it.

 

"...less gain than you think..."

 

Words to live by!

[koula901]

Yeah, I'd really like to stick with the High Order because it has such a smooth beautiful clean tone (and honestly, I think the best players aren't using much overdrive at all) and for humbuckers, the High Order pups have loads of clarity, which these single-coil-accustomed ears like. I think I'll need to hear it w/different amps - that's a big one, and consider other overdrives. Fulltone makes nice ones. Thanks again, guys.

[H]

I think I'll need to hear it w/different amps

Hiya K You might consider, if your PC is up to it, running one of the amp simulation programs like Guitar Rig. You get a good, varied set of recognisable amp types and lots of effects. These let you experiment with settings and combinations to the point where you may go and buy the real thing (or an amp in similar tonal territory).

 

I use Guitar Rig 4 and a good pair of headphones regularly to drop myself into sonic territory that my neighbours, at 50 yards away, would be able to hear if I were using real amps!

[koula901]

Hiya K You might consider, if your PC is up to it, running one of the amp simulation programs like Guitar Rig. You get a good, varied set of recognisable amp types and lots of effects. These let you experiment with settings and combinations to the point where you may go and buy the real thing (or an amp in similar tonal territory).

 

I use Guitar Rig 4 and a good pair of headphones regularly to drop myself into sonic territory that my neighbours, at 50 yards away, would be able to hear if I were using real amps!

 

Now there's an exciting thought!!! Is there a way to get your guitar to interact with the amp so you can hear how your guitar sounds with it? If so, that's a worthwhile pursuit (as long as the technology is not to complex to learn).

[H]

Now there's an exciting thought!!! Is there a way to get your guitar to interact with the amp so you can hear how your guitar sounds with it? If so, that's a worthwhile pursuit (as long as the technology is not to complex to learn).

Sure - that's the whole idea! You get a USB guitar interface (I use the UA-1G interface from Cakewalk/Roland that comes with Guitar Tracks Pro 4), plug the USB bit into your PC and your guitar into the Hi-Z (quarter inch jackplug) socket and off you go!

[koula901]

It's on my "to do" list. Thanks for the idea, H.

[bolero]

THROBAK SLE101 LTD

 

THEY GO GREAT WITH HOBGOBLIN BEER TOO!!

 

hehe