What makes Heritage a good guitar?

[aarsvold]

Hi, i just ordered a used H150 on the net yesterday which i got fairly cheap.

I really dont know much about these guitars but I have heard a lot of people stating these are better than the Gibsons. They say the guitar is superb and so on but then I wonder what exactly they mean.

So i have a few questions?

 

What exactly is it that makes these guitars good? (I mean physically, is it the wood used? , shape of the body? etc)

How can you tell this good quality? (is it better sustain etc)

How will you describe the difference in tone from a Gibson Les Paul for instance?

 

Well, sorry for asking maybe stupid questions but I really havent played a Heritage in my whole life.

[Spectrum13]

We have many threads about this but it starts with the founders JP, Marv and Jim hired on at 225 Parsons Street in Kzoo in 1956-58 the learning the olde school ways of hand building Gibsons from the masters who learned from their masters. That "Heritage" was lost in the Norlin error when cost savings was more important then quality.

 

Marv, Jim and JP brought back to 225 Parsons street the art of building guitars the way they were taught in the 1950's. 50 plus years of purchasing wood, tooling, finishing and repairs only added.

[aarsvold]

We have many threads about this but it starts with the founders JP, Marv and Jim hired on at 225 Parsons Street in Kzoo in 1956-58 the learning the olde school ways of hand building Gibsons from the masters who learned from their masters. That "Heritage" was lost in the Norlin error when cost savings was more important then quality.

 

Marv, Jim and JP brought back to 225 Parsons street the art of building guitars the way they were taught in the 1950's. 50 plus years of purchasing wood, tooling, finishing and repairs only added.

 

Well, this is what I have read and it is somehow a little abstract. I am more after what makes the guitar better technically and constructionswise.

It seems a little hard to find posts about this that says much more than that the Heritage is "very good", "great tone" and so on. What lies behind these words?

[NoNameBand]

It all comes down to this, at Heritage, they build their guitars out of love for the instrument and have the luxury of doing so based on their stubbornness to do anything less. They refuse to compromise what they have learned over the years to be the best. Like any other boutique, they produce guitars in smaller quantities and take the time to get it right. They are not burdened by the Dow Jones or greedy shareholders, or a board of trustees that don't care about the guitars. The main ingredient in all of this is "they care"! They use the best materials available today, the best methods of building from yesterday to build a guitar that will stand the test of time tomorrow. There are many good builders today, but none with the Heritage of "Heritage Guitars, 225 Parsons Street, Kalamazoo, MI", period.

 

I can't wait until Patrick jumps in on this one...

[Halowords]

Technically or construction-wise, in my experience and the general consensus, a well-built Gibson and a well-built Heritage should be about the same. I think a lot of it comes down to Heritage being more consistently good. Plus, you do see some Heritage guitars that have things Gibson won't do, like that amazing quilted 575(?) whose pics are floating around. Still, I can't say a nice example of a Heritage is any better than a nice example of a Gibson.

 

Tone, that's suggestive. I didn't notice any huge difference between my Les Paul and my H-150, although the H-150 probably has a bit more low end sound. Of course, I also set out to get one with that sound, and it's a bit over 10 lbs. I can't help you much there, however it may be a case of the consistency, and may have to do with woods used, setup, variances in quality during different (sometimes problematic) eras of Gibson. Somebody could probably write a book on it.

 

Configuration might vary, things like neck size, hardware used, subtle contour differences, and the like.

[yoslate]

Years, and years, and years. Hands. An eye. Practice and habit. Divine wood. The Four Original Owners, and their idea. A 100 year-old building...and all the ghosts.

[Guest HRB853370]

I am surprised nobody said it yet, so I will say it. MOJO! The Heritage 150's (along with all Heritage models) have MOJO and you have to go back to pre-1970 Les Pauls to get that MOJO.

 

I never use that word, so now I am done with it.

[aarsvold]

I am surprised nobody said it yet, so I will say it. MOJO! The Heritage 150's (along with all Heritage models) have MOJO and you have to go back to pre-1970 Les Pauls to get that MOJO.

 

I never use that word, so now I am done with it.

 

Mojo I can understand.

And thank you very much for the other replies as well.

Looking forward to even more info on what the workers years of experience has lead to though.

As I mentioned over, why, more spesific, are these guitars so good?

 

(looking really forward to unpack my guitar when it comes to find out myself)

[ingeneri]

I think you will find that experience translates very directly to the quality of craftsmanship in shaping necks and carving tops.

[H]

Years, and years, and years. Hands. An eye. Practice and habit. Divine wood. The Four Original Owners, and their idea. A 100 year-old building...and all the ghosts.

Poetry, Rob, poetry!

[mars_hall]

Mojo I can understand.

And thank you very much for the other replies as well.

Looking forward to even more info on what the workers years of experience has lead to though.

As I mentioned over, why, more spesific, are these guitars so good?

 

(looking really forward to unpack my guitar when it comes to find out myself)

 

Your question implies that we here are all guitar constructors at Heritage and have an equal knowledge to that of those in the factory. In the majority of cases, this is not so and while Heritage is very open in the processes they do there, we only see the end result and not necessarily the detailed thought passed down and carried over into each operation, which appears to be what you are trying to extract from this thread. There is no specific that can identified that can't be fairly debated from every side or facet.

 

The membership has seen many guitar, there is an older demographic, and subjective judgments enter into the equation based on comparison with past experiences. What makes Heritage a good guitar? The individual guitars speak for themselves, but there are factors that each contribute towards their goodness which you yourself could likely name. It's not only the ingredients and recipe, it's the execution.

[tulk1]

 

(looking really forward to unpack my guitar when it comes to find out myself)

What you're asking can't be told. Words over the internet will not suffice to explain what putting your hands on will. You will have the best idea of what makes Heritage such a great guitar soon after you get yours. Hands on is the best "word" on the planet.

 

And you must share pictures of your new guitar when you get it.

[Spectrum13]

When you get that 150 in your hands think about this, Marv was shaping necks in 1958 - 1959 and 1960. By 1960 Marv was the neck line leader. He taught his employees how to shape Gibson necks 50 years ago.

 

Since we have 90% of hand contact with the neck and finger board, the first thing we notice when PLAYING the guitar is how the neck feels. Like a 58 neck carve, 59 or 60? While any builder can measure a vintage neck and duplicate it, only one guy (still building today) was on THAT line AT that time hand shapping gibson necks. "Beauty of the Burst" measures neck dimensions on the 58-60 LPs and they all varied due to hand made pre-CAD building. Marv has added a few personal improvements in the last 50 years too. Along with the Nito finishing this is exactly where (IMO) the Mojo come from. A Heritage neck fits like a broken in shoe, comfortable for classic rock, jazz, county. Hope you feel the same.

[Patrick]

aarsvold . . . you're looking for very specific answers to a very broad question. No one, including those at Heritage guitars could offer you the type of answers you seem to be looking for. It's not like a bottle of wine, where we could say . . it's aged in a certain type of oak that only we can get. What makes a Ferrari one of the best cars on the planet? They use the same raw materials as the Yugo did. We can't tell you . . .it's a certain glue that bonds the wood together. . or, their maple, spruce, mahogany comes from a magical forest that only Heritage has access to. Everyone has access to the same raw materials and components that Heritage does.

 

There have been decades of research done by the most technically sophisticated people, processes and instrumentation available anywhere in the world, to try to find out what makes a Stradivarius a Stradivarius. No one knows for sure.

 

It's all of the things mentioned by others earlier in this thread; they make sure that do not accept tone wood that isn't going to be alive with tone . . . they make sure that they do all they can to source high quality electrical components. From there, it's all about the skills of the craftspeople and the techniques and secrets that have been handed down for decades and decades. Then, it's attention to detail and execution. And, truth be told, they do slip up occasionally as everyone sometimes does.

 

I told this short story once before here on HOC. I think it applies directly to your question, because I once asked exactly the same question to one of the owners. In 1994, I drove to the Heritage plant to pick up my brand new custom ordered Golden Eagle. I had played a few Heritage jazz boxes before I ordered this one and they all sounded great. When I arrived at the plant, they put the guitar in my hands and said . . . "tell us what you think". After a short while of playing it I turned to Jim Duerloo and I asked him . . . "what make your guitars project the way the do? What makes them sound so good? . . . so much bigger than they are?" He just smiled at me and replied . . "we like to think it's because we know what we're doing"

[skydog52]

After a short while of playing it I turned to Jim Duerloo and I asked him . . . "what make your guitars project the way the do? What makes them sound so good? . . . so much bigger than they are?" He just smiled at me and replied . . "we like to think it's because we know what we're doing"

 

 

 

I got chills when I read this. This is really why these guitars are so good.

Thanks for sharing Patrick

[Sparky]

What makes a Heritage so good? Why... its the flavor son. The flavor.

[aarsvold]

aarsvold . . . you're looking for very specific answers to a very broad question. No one, including those at Heritage guitars could offer you the type of answers you seem to be looking for.

 

 

Thank you so much for all this response. I think I have got a clue on what you all are trying to tell me. The reason why I asked these specific questions is that until 2 years ago I had never even heard about the Heritage. In 2008 I saw a guitar in a shop and I didnt think much about it until I by impulse ended up bying one 2 days ago. So, after I bought it I went here to find out what the Heritage really was.

I saw that someone was writing for example that the angle of the headstock makes the guitar get more sustain so I wanted to find out if it was more details like that which influenced the sound of these guitars.

 

Anyway, I will probably get my guitar tomorrow, and I will come back to you with pics and reports.

So again, thank you for all of your replies so far.

[Fernando]

 

Thank you so much for all this response. I think I have got a clue on what you all are trying to tell me. The reason why I asked these specific questions is that until 2 years ago I had never even heard about the Heritage. In 2008 I saw a guitar in a shop and I didnt think much about it until I by impulse ended up bying one 2 days ago. So, after I bought it I went here to find out what the Heritage really was.

I saw that someone was writing for example that the angle of the headstock makes the guitar get more sustain so I wanted to find out if it was more details like that which influenced the sound of these guitars.

 

Anyway, I will probably get my guitar tomorrow, and I will come back to you with pics and reports.

So again, thank you for all of your replies so far.

[Guest HRB853370]

aarsvold . . . you're looking for very specific answers to a very broad question. No one, including those at Heritage guitars could offer you the type of answers you seem to be looking for. It's not like a bottle of wine, where we could say . . it's aged in a certain type of oak that only we can get. What makes a Ferrari one of the best cars on the planet? They use the same raw materials as the Yugo did. We can't tell you . . .it's a certain glue that bonds the wood together. . or, their maple, spruce, mahogany comes from a magical forest that only Heritage has access to. Everyone has access to the same raw materials and components that Heritage does.

 

There have been decades of research done by the most technically sophisticated people, processes and instrumentation available anywhere in the world, to try to find out what makes a Stradivarius a Stradivarius. No one knows for sure.

 

It's all of the things mentioned by others earlier in this thread; they make sure that do not accept tone wood that isn't going to be alive with tone . . . they make sure that they do all they can to source high quality electrical components. From there, it's all about the skills of the craftspeople and the techniques and secrets that have been handed down for decades and decades. Then, it's attention to detail and execution. And, truth be told, they do slip up occasionally as everyone sometimes does.

 

I told this short story once before here on HOC. I think it applies directly to your question, because I once asked exactly the same question to one of the owners. In 1994, I drove to the Heritage plant to pick up my brand new custom ordered Golden Eagle. I had played a few Heritage jazz boxes before I ordered this one and they all sounded great. When I arrived at the plant, they put the guitar in my hands and said . . . "tell us what you think". After a short while of playing it I turned to Jim Duerloo and I asked him . . . "what make your guitars project the way the do? What makes them sound so good? . . . so much bigger than they are?" He just smiled at me and replied . . "we like to think it's because we know what we're doing"

 

Thats pretty cool Patrick. When is somebody going to write a good book on this company!

 

Everybody summed it up well, the combined experience of hundreds of years of raw material selection, wood carving, electronics matching, shaping, sanding, finishing, and listening cannot be duplicated by automation!

 

When I bought my first Heritage 11 years ago, I knew NOTHING about the company. All I knew was that when I held it in my hands, it was somthing special. It was not until much much later that I learned why it was something special. Up to then, Heritage was just another guitar company-I heard they were good-and I bought one. I had no idea just HOW good they were until it fell into my arms and hands. Aarsvold, I suspect you will have similar experience!

[kbp810]

 

Thank you so much for all this response. I think I have got a clue on what you all are trying to tell me. The reason why I asked these specific questions is that until 2 years ago I had never even heard about the Heritage. In 2008 I saw a guitar in a shop and I didnt think much about it until I by impulse ended up bying one 2 days ago. So, after I bought it I went here to find out what the Heritage really was.

I saw that someone was writing for example that the angle of the headstock makes the guitar get more sustain so I wanted to find out if it was more details like that which influenced the sound of these guitars.

 

Anyway, I will probably get my guitar tomorrow, and I will come back to you with pics and reports.

So again, thank you for all of your replies so far.

Let us know, and welcome to the HOC!

 

On that note... a part from all that has already been mentioned; the HOC here itself can a big part of the Heritage experience as well. We have a really great group here - very knowledge on just about everything (Heritage related or not!) and always happy to help each other out

[smurph1]

Like Patrick said, they do know what they're doing up there, and the best part is, they are in no rush to do it..Just play yours for a while..You'll know what we mean

[NoNameBand]

The fact is, its not in the specs that makes a great guitar. It IS the intangibles that we can't quite articulate, but we feel and recognize when we play them. You will too. Thats why we keep calling it the MOJO.

[Fernando]

You certainly have something I'll bet many here can envy a little: you are about to experience a Heritage for the first time. I had never played one until a little more than a year ago I bought my first H-150. Since then, I have purchased four more of these amazing instruments. Yes, mojo is a factor, as I've seen it mentioned in this thread, but there's much more, as others have put it quite well. My two cents: a good guitar has to feel good and sound good to the musician and whomever gets to experience the music. If the guitar also looks good, in addition to the other characteristics: bonus! When I got my first Heritage, it felt good in my hands - you know when you get something in your hands that you can just tell was really well made? - it felt solid and tight, a type of good quality you simply can't fake. Playing a Heritage is like eating awesome food prepared by the people who helped create the recipe. When you buy a Heritage, you are buying more then a great musical instrument; you're acquiring a guitar making philosophy from a "luthierie", a custom shop, really. I had a chance to tour the factory last year (unfortunately I have not been able to attend the Pilgrimage yet) and I was even more impressed and more appreciative of the people at Heritage and of the instruments they make there.

[koula901]

Poetry, Rob, poetry!

 

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