Joey Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 I have a H555 bought new in 1995 that came with Schaller pups that I find to be very dark and not as clean as I would like (especially on the neck pup). I am looking for a clean warm vintage type of tone and have narrowed my choices down to the Gibson '57 Classics, Duncan '59's and Fralin Pure PAF. Reading the forum, I have noted that members have used and commented on the Duncan '59s , but do not see much feedback on the '57 classics and really none on Fralins. Please provide any experience/comparison you may have on these pick ups.
Guest HRB853370 Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 I have a H555 bought new in 1995 that came with Schaller pups that I find to be very dark and not as clean as I would like (especially on the neck pup). I am looking for a clean warm vintage type of tone and have narrowed my choices down to the Gibson '57 Classics, Duncan '59's and Fralin Pure PAF. Reading the forum, I have noted that members have used and commented on the Duncan '59s , but do not see much feedback on the '57 classics and really none on Fralins. Please provide any experience/comparison you may have on these pick ups. What do you mean by "dark"?? I find the Schallers very "Gibsonlike" very thick and lots of tone!
Joey Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 Dark = I need to dial in a lot of treble on both the guitar and amp to clean up the tone.
fxdx99 Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 Hi Joey - went thru a similar thing w/my 555 being very dark sounding on the neck pu. Might not be your pu per se... might be that the guitar 'voice' is just that, kinda dark (makes for a GREAT bridge sound, tho). I tried SD59 and a Throbak, both of which have their own character, but the guitar darkness was still there. I 'solved' it by putting in a PhatCat in the neck. Being single coil, really brightened up the guitar - I absolutely LOVE the sound it puts out now. I've a 535 as well and that guitar's voice is brighter by nature. I've seth lovers in it and they compliment it wonderfully, but don't think they'd fare as well in the 555. Course your results may vary - just one person's experience.
Joey Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 Hi Joey - went thru a similar thing w/my 555 being very dark sounding on the neck pu. Might not be your pu per se... might be that the guitar 'voice' is just that, kinda dark (makes for a GREAT bridge sound, tho). I tried SD59 and a Throbak, both of which have their own character, but the guitar darkness was still there. I 'solved' it by putting in a PhatCat in the neck. Being single coil, really brightened up the guitar - I absolutely LOVE the sound it puts out now. I've a 535 as well and that guitar's voice is brighter by nature. I've seth lovers in it and they compliment it wonderfully, but don't think they'd fare as well in the 555. Course your results may vary - just one person's experience. Thanks for your feedback!
111518 Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 Dark = I need to dial in a lot of treble on both the guitar and amp to clean up the tone. Hmmm. This post makes me wonder ...forgive me if you already know this, but seems worth a shot, since it might offer a much cheaper solution than new pickups: tone controls on guitars basically bleed treble, so you really get the true sound of a pickup with tones on 10. (Not like a stereo where midpoint = flat.) Just about any 'bucker, and especially any front 'bucker, is going to lose clarity in a hurry as you roll back the tone control. Unless they are intentionally trying to darken their tone (Clapton "woman sound"), I think it's safe to say most players are using tones on 10 most of the time. My experience with Schallers is that they tend not to be a particularly dark 'bucker, so I wonder if this is part of the issue. That said, Randy is right that a single coil pickup in the front slot is going to put you in a much brighter tonal range.
Joey Posted January 2, 2011 Author Posted January 2, 2011 I keep the tone and volume up. I also understand that Heritage offered two type of Schaller pups which were different in tone. I believe the ones that came out were offered much later received more favorable feedback on the forum. However, my focus is not just the dark tone but also on more of a vintage sound.
111518 Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 I keep the tone and volume up. I also understand that Heritage offered two type of Schaller pups which were different in tone. I believe the ones that came out were offered much later received more favorable feedback on the forum. However, my focus is not just the dark tone but also on more of a vintage sound. Got it. Good luck on your quest.
Joey Posted January 2, 2011 Author Posted January 2, 2011 Got it. Good luck on your quest. Thanks for the suggestions!
tbonesullivan Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 I'd try lowering the pickup a bit, or maybe messing with the pole-piece height. Dark is usually not the complaint I hear from people about the Schaller pickups. I have them in my 535, and love them. Have you tried messing with your amp EQ a bunch? the EQ profile on a semi-hollow is way different than say an LP style guitar or a bolt on, even with the same pickups. As for replacement pickups, I'd say maybe SD 59 or Pearly Gates pickups, or maybe seth lovers. Depends on what you are looking to do with the guitar. Dimarzio also makes some great PAF style pickups, and these are all a bunch cheaper than the boutique pickups you can get. I played the pickup swapping game, and all I got out of it was bills and frustration.
High Flying Bird Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 I think Randy, being an owner of a 555 & a 535 has established that these guitars are much different than I would have thought. That said... 59's are very dark. Your Schallers should be one of the brightest pickups on the market. 111518 may be on to something. Maybe the electronics need to be changed. Last summer I had a 357/Firebird built and I asked Marv to put Phat Cats in it. Man, what a tone I get out of that guitar. They are very sweet sounding p-90s in a humbucker footprint. I am sure if you don't like them somebody here will take them off your hands.
Joey Posted January 2, 2011 Author Posted January 2, 2011 I'd try lowering the pickup a bit, or maybe messing with the pole-piece height. Dark is usually not the complaint I hear from people about the Schaller pickups. I have them in my 535, and love them. Have you tried messing with your amp EQ a bunch? the EQ profile on a semi-hollow is way different than say an LP style guitar or a bolt on, even with the same pickups. As for replacement pickups, I'd say maybe SD 59 or Pearly Gates pickups, or maybe seth lovers. Depends on what you are looking to do with the guitar. Dimarzio also makes some great PAF style pickups, and these are all a bunch cheaper than the boutique pickups you can get. I played the pickup swapping game, and all I got out of it was bills and frustration. I've played with pick up adjustment, also as I do all of my guitars to find the sweet spot. With the Schallers, I find that they are very low output pups, which is what I like. However, if you set them too low, they sound very thin and sterile. By contrast, I need to set the pups on my Les Paul, which came with '57 Classics new in 1992, much lower compared to the Schallers on my H555.
fxdx99 Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 I think Randy, being an owner of a 555 & a 535 has established that these guitars are much different than I would have thought. Last summer I had a 357/Firebird built and I asked Marv to put Phat Cats in it. Man, what a tone I get out of that guitar. They are very sweet sounding p-90s in a humbucker footprint. I am sure if you don't like them somebody here will take them off your hands. A wee bit of clarity (at least my opinion)- I don't think that 535/555 models are very different in terms of sound/voice. My particular 535/555 guitars just happen to be... 2 555s could provide the same difference in sound. And I know they do having played other 535 and 555s. Mine have a weight difference between 'em (555 is heavier) which may account for some of the tonal delta. Dunno what causes the variation in voicing between set neck guitars - neck wood? Body wood? Wood density? But can attest that those phatcats really wake up a dark sounding gee-tar. Yeh Baby!
bebove64 Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 For replacement PUs I'd suggest SD Seth E. Lover or probably your Schallers need only a good set up (I agree with tbonesullivan when he says:"I played the pickup swapping game, and all I got out of it was bills and frustration". Bebove
NoNameBand Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 I have a H555 bought new in 1995 that came with Schaller pups that I find to be very dark and not as clean as I would like (especially on the neck pup). I am looking for a clean warm vintage type of tone and have narrowed my choices down to the Gibson '57 Classics, Duncan '59's and Fralin Pure PAF. Reading the forum, I have noted that members have used and commented on the Duncan '59s , but do not see much feedback on the '57 classics and really none on Fralins. Please provide any experience/comparison you may have on these pick ups. I like all Three of those. Especially, the Classic '57s and the Fralin's. A lot of Guys on this site like Sheptones as well. The SD '59's are very good but I think for the 555 (ebony fingerboard) you may like the Classic '57s, Fralin's or Sheptones better. The SD '59s are a little scooped in the mids which may not favor the 555. All a matter of taste of course.
Spectrum13 Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 What are the values of your tone and volume pots? If they are 250s you could replace with 500s. Might cost you $15.00.
Guest HRB853370 Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 What are the values of your tone and volume pots? If they are 250s you could replace with 500s. Might cost you $15.00. And what would that accomplish?
Joey Posted January 4, 2011 Author Posted January 4, 2011 I never changed the original pots that I believe would be 250's which are standard with humbuckers. Over the past couple of years I noticed the tone of the guitar was becoming a bit muddy and harsh. It's not my amps. Can the magnets in the pups go bad over time? Do the caps used on the guitar's electronics go bad?
mars_hall Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 And what would that accomplish? Raising the resistance on the tone pots means less treble is bled off to ground.
NoNameBand Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I never changed the original pots that I believe would be 250's which are standard with humbuckers. Over the past couple of years I noticed the tone of the guitar was becoming a bit muddy and harsh. It's not my amps. Can the magnets in the pups go bad over time? Do the caps used on the guitar's electronics go bad? I think I read an article about the aging process of pickup magnets and synthetically, trying to reproduce this effect. I think the article said that over 50 years a magnet may lose 1-2% of it's original strength. This was regarding aging magnets to try and get closer to the '59 PAF original magnet strength. You Humbucker equiped guitar came with 500k ohm pots as this is standard for Humbuckers. 250's would come on single coils like a Strat or Tele. Some use 300's with P-90's and Gibson likes to use 300k ohm for Volume pots for Humbuckers but not the Tone pots . I've seen it on some Custom Shop guitars.
GuitArtMan Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I'd try lowering the pickup a bit, or maybe messing with the pole-piece height. Dark is usually not the complaint I hear from people about the Schaller pickups. I have them in my 535, and love them. Have you tried messing with your amp EQ a bunch? the EQ profile on a semi-hollow is way different than say an LP style guitar or a bolt on, even with the same pickups. Yes! I find having a neck pickup to close to the strings can make it dark and woofy and muddy sounding. Try lowering it a bit and see if that cleans things up a bit.
GuitArtMan Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 For replacement PUs I'd suggest SD Seth E. Lover or probably your Schallers need only a good set up (I agree with tbonesullivan when he says:"I played the pickup swapping game, and all I got out of it was bills and frustration". Bebove +1 on the Seth Lovers. They are the cats meow in a Semi-Hollow body.
GuitArtMan Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I never changed the original pots that I believe would be 250's which are standard with humbuckers. Over the past couple of years I noticed the tone of the guitar was becoming a bit muddy and harsh. It's not my amps. Can the magnets in the pups go bad over time? Do the caps used on the guitar's electronics go bad? Most humbucker equipped guitars come with 500k pots, not 250k, these are primarily used for single coils, but there is no rule. The magnets will demagnetize a bit over time, but this is just a bit and takes a long, long time. The caps in the guitar shouldn't go bad, but could conceivably drift over time.
Joey Posted January 4, 2011 Author Posted January 4, 2011 Most humbucker equipped guitars come with 500k pots, not 250k, these are primarily used for single coils, but there is no rule. The magnets will demagnetize a bit over time, but this is just a bit and takes a long, long time. The caps in the guitar shouldn't go bad, but could conceivably drift over time. I may be wrong, but thought it was visa versa -humbuckers come with 250K and single coil come with 500K pots?????
NoNameBand Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Most humbucker equipped guitars come with 500k pots, not 250k, these are primarily used for single coils, but there is no rule. The magnets will demagnetize a bit over time, but this is just a bit and takes a long, long time. The caps in the guitar shouldn't go bad, but could conceivably drift over time. Yep I may be wrong, but thought it was visa versa -humbuckers come with 250K and single coil come with 500K pots????? & Nope
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