"The Storm" is just a gentle breeze

[tulk1]

Snip snip snip for bandwidth. And .......... yep!! Very well stated.

 

So, uh, whats with this "exile" thing? Probably wrong thread to bring it up.

[Patrick]

Greetings Kenny . . . and Happy New Year to you!! Yep . . . as long winded as ever. As far as the exile thing . . I guess it's just me being me.. . and a half hearted apology for my temporary reemergence. You're correct, as usual, probably the wrong thread. Apologies for that.

[Guido]

Im not really an expert, but the nut doesn't look like it's been tampered with.

By the way some guys mentioned to turn the nut around and everything is fine. The nut is filed for this position, so that's not an option and it also excludes the possibility that it has been clued in the wrong way.

 

When I unscrewed the electronics compartment plate, the screws looked brand new and were very tight screwed in.

That's the advantage of the black screws. You can easily see if a screwdriver messed with them. I left a few marks on them by unscrewing them.

 

So far I have no respond from the dealer. Could be a bad sign. But then it's the weekend. So I guess I have to wait 'till tomorrow.

 

Some wanted to know the weight: 4.4 kg equals 9.7 pounds.

 

Last thing: Patrick please stay with us!

[Guest HRB853370]

Because of this particular thread and the responses I've read within it, I will go back on the promise I made to myself of keeping my opinions and commentary off of this site. As I've mentioned here before, my relationship with Heritage has, without going into great detail, grown beyond just being a customer. As such, I can not sit back without commenting on this matter. Guido and I have shared a couple of PMs on this situation, and I understand and accept his decision to not keep this guitar as a matter of principle. There are those of us who would be able to look beyond the flaws in this beautiful guitar, have them addressed and resolved and move on. However, please remember, no one except Guido has had weeks of anticipation of receiving a flawless example of what all of us here have touted as the best LP type guitar on the planet. We can only imagine, but not feel his level of dejection after that kind of anticipation. Guido chooses not to accept this as "fixable". That's his call . . . and only he can determine if it's the right decision for him.

 

To those who might blow this off as something that should be considered "no big deal" . . . you are wrong. Period!! If any of you who think that this isn't an important issue to Jim, Marv, Vince, Ren, Bill, Katie, Curley . . . everyone at the plant . . ask yourself what you think their reaction might be if someone were to walk into the plant and put this guitar in the hands of one of the owners. Plain and simple, they'd be pissed that this one slipped by. However, the problem is that it did slip by and it shouldn't have. They would be the first to acknowledge that. To explain this away as a result of have a product hand made is just unacceptable and nonsense. While it's a true generalization that robotic and automated methods of manufacture for the most part remove most of the element of mere mortals being less than perfect . . a proper final inspection process should have and would have sent this guitar back for further refinement prior to shipping it out the door.

 

While we all have developed an admiration, love and respect for the good folks at Parsons Street and the products they craft . . . this does not absolve them from their responsibility to not let this stuff happen. The more we worship at their alter, the higher the bar is set for them to consistently deliver as perfect a product as humanly possible. This is NOT an example of their best . . . as we all know. They owe all of their customers nothing short of the best they are capable of.

 

Now, with all of that said, I too don't believe that this guitar left the factory in the condition noted in these photos. The binding issue is clearly an over sight by Heritage. It should have been scraped better. There is NO excuse for that. As it relates to the nut . . . Heritage has frequently been guilty of not filing the nut adequately . . . but, I've never seen anything quite like that. I would wonder if that was the result of someone's tampering at the dealer level. The electronics cavity is a whole-'nuther matter. I would go out on a limb here and say there is just no way that the mess we see in that cavity was created by the people at Heritage.

 

The only issue I see on that guitar that I would accept as possibly being recognized by a QC inspection and passed off as "acceptable" would be the dark line under the shading. As was mentioned earlier in the thread . . not seeing the guitar in person, we have no way of knowing if it is possibly in the wood itself. If so, is it enough to classify and stamp the guitar as a second? I would say on a natural top, or a light VSB . . yeah, definitely. Under a dark sunburst shading . . . I would say no.

 

I do agree with those of you who shoulder most of this blame on the dealer. They should be the final and most critical QC inspection when they receive a product. They have a responsibility to the Vendor, Heritage, and to their customers to inspect the guitars and bring any imperfections to the attention of the vendor for adequate resolution. For all we know, they might have contacted Heritage and told them of the flaws . . and possibly Heritage gave them the option to return it for remediation or replacement . . . or they might have offered them a further discount so they could sell the guitar as a second . . .and possibly, the dealer chose to keep the guitar, take the additional discount as a further profit and not mention the imperfections to Guido hoping it wouldn't matter to him. I hope that's not the case . . . Heritage should not want that guitar in the market place unless they could verify a big fat #2 being deeply stamped into the back of the head stock.

 

This isn't the first time Heritage put out something they shouldn't have . . and it will undoubtedly not be the last. As noted by Jaycee, they are imperfect mere mortals hand crafting a product. However, we need to continually hold them accountable to all their customers, not just those members of HOC, to deliver the very best they are capable of. They would expect nothing less from us and would be disappointed in us if we didn't hold them to a higher standard.

 

Now, I will return to self imposed exile . . . to hopefully help HOC return to the more preferable tone of a year or so ago.

 

+1 for paragraph 2

[Guest HRB853370]

You want hand made well you got it. Please do not complain, if you want perfect buy a machined fender or carvin or somthing. Everyone wants hand made and nestalgia but complain if theres flaws. All heritages have flaws because they are made by hand, nature of the beast im afraid, but the complaining is sickening, you want perfection buy an american cnc'd guitar, made perfect every time! Problem solved.

 

So someone at heritage made a mistake and has the nut on wrong ,,,, big deal-pull the strings and turn it around, I'm sure they didnt purposely do it. Same with the binding, so it pulled away from the body a tad, probably because it was HAND routred and there was a flat spot the binding wouldnt seat to. Gives it character if you ask me, and last but not least let me end my speech on this note! regardless if your guitar is flawless or not it's when you pick it up and play it that matters, no one cares what the persons guitar looks like when it comes time to play some music, what they notice is if you can play or not, I think people tend to forget that. Are you a musician or a guitar building analyst????????????

 

Who the heck is this nutcase! I'd like to see his reaction if he received a brand new guitar that was messed up like this one!

[Guest HRB853370]

I agree with Tulk1 but, I still believe the guitar is worth having repaired instead of returning it for a refund or exchange. It's still a great guitar with a couple of fixable flaws. It's not like the headstock is broken or the neck is having an out-of-body experience.

 

And your saying you would have the "brand new" guitar repaired? I find that hard to believe, knowing how much you worship your gear!

 

I cannot agree more with Guido. Send the POS back and get another one, if not a full refund.

[MartyGrass]

Who the heck is this nutcase! I'd like to see his reaction if he received a brand new guitar that was messed up like this one!

 

 

Jason is no more extreme in his opinion than you are. He's a decent, sincere guy who is a neighbor of Marv, as I recall. He's a veteran guitarist from the Kalamazoo area.

 

As someone who's bought quite a few guitars and has had his share of bad deals, here's my advice. Work out a partial refund from the dealer. Don't be angry but be firm while pleasant. Show him the pics. In this sort of situation I have even sent the seller the link to HOC so he can get a sense of the size of the audience and their sentiments. And so he knows that HOC will watch the course of events.

 

I'm not sure the nut needs to come out. You probably have GHS 10-46s on there. The 46 will set on the small side of the nut okay. It's not like you've got a 60 there. There should be enough plastic. Anyway it would cost me $30 to have a good luthier put in a new nut and cut it.

 

The black marks are likely in the wood, but I don't know. I don't think you'll get too far with that. But I would certainly point them out and wag my finger.

 

The soldering is sad but seems to work. You like the tone, so don't change the pots or caps. That control cavity can be cleaned up for another $30.

 

The binding can be scraped in a few minutes for $15.

 

If you can get $200-300 as a refund you'd be ahead. You may even get $400 or more. And you should get the refund immediately. Then fix it if you'd like.

 

Here's where experience comes in. As most know, I've had a guitar broken in shipping. If that happens you may not get a penny, let alone a Euro. I know of guitars disappearing during shipment also.

 

I've had sellers get the guitar back and claim I was the one who broke it, only offering me a partial refund, once taking about three months to resolve. The seller has your money and your guitar. That's when the storm really hits Germany.

 

The dealer may do all the right things. But consider that the dealer already let you down. He may do it again. It's a gamble.

 

I can understand the two extreme views, don't do anything vs. send it back for a refund. Your money, your chances.

 

My final thought:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdfeW2h8Qo4

[the jayce]

I am surprised that there are members here willing to put up with heritage bashing. Sure I understand guido being upset about the flaws in his guitar, I have a 157 that has some pretty good flaws as well but I dont go to the one site dedicated to this brand of guitar and complain about it. Call up bill or marve and resolve it instead of putting posts on thier fan clubs site that would most certainly put a bad taste in the mouth of a person that was possibly thinking of converting to heritage. This is not the place to bash heritage, regardless of the cosmetic issue or the nut. It makes heritage look bad and we all know they are the best of the best.

 

Guido I wish you the best with your 150, and even though my truss rod cover is way right of center on the head stock of my 3000 dollar 157 it's still the best guitar I have ever owned or ever will own. Hopefully you will understand where my point of view is coming from.

[JeffB]

I just want to clarify that even guitars that come through a CNC manufacturing process are not always without flaw. Ive rejected a few from a CNC manufacturer who is supposed to have a reputation of consistency and good QC. Some of the flaws much worse than what I can see on Guido's guitar and on guitars more expensive. Flaws that made them unplayable and finish flaws that it was hard to believe could ever make it out the door.

These flawed guitars generally have to travel all the way back to the US because of that manufacturers policy.

 

Im really surprised that the dealer didnt pick up the nut was so wrong. Didnt they even pick up the guitar and play it to make sure it was all good?

I wouldnt have been able to not pick it up and check that one out!!! Honestly, I dont think that guitar wouldve made it on to the floor or web page. That would be coming home with me.

They invested time or money taking taking pictures of it!!! A quick guitarists eye run across it would have spotted the nut instantly.

 

We all have different levels of whats acceptable. For me, if a guitar has it, its mine regardless of colour, finish, cosmetic flaws and even a wonky nut. Every guitar I have bought has had some manufacturing blemish or flaw. Ive pretty much added to those blemishes in a very short time.

For others a guitar is just as much about the visual as the playing. It's some kind of work of art or something. Both attitudes are right and valid.

 

That nut though, how the hell did that make it out the door at either the factory and the dealer? The soldering is also a surprise. Its better than some of the make shift jobs Ive done on my PRS when testing p/ups but not what I would expect from a guitar factory.

[High Flying Bird]

 

The electronics cavity is a whole-'nuther matter. I would go out on a limb here and say there is just no way that the mess we see in that cavity was created by the people at Heritage.

 

Just what I was thinking Patrick. I have watched their electronics guy a few times. I made my living with a soldering iron for almost 15 years as an R&D tech. Their guy is smooth and very clean. I shake like a dog shitting a peach seed when I have an iron and molten solder close to a guitar.

 

Somebody has been messing with this guitar and they had no business doing so.

[JeffB]

Just what I was thinking Patrick. I have watched their electronics guy a few times. I made my living with a soldering iron for almost 15 years as an R&D tech. Their guy is smooth and very clean. I shake like a dog shitting a peach seed when I have an iron and molten solder close to a guitar.

 

Somebody has been messing with this guitar and they had no business doing so.

looks just terrible. I think you may be right. I cant see that leaving the factory after looking inside a few H's and seeing pics of the insides of others.

[Guido]

I am surprised that there are members here willing to put up with heritage bashing. Sure I understand guido being upset about the flaws in his guitar, I have a 157 that has some pretty good flaws as well but I dont go to the one site dedicated to this brand of guitar and complain about it. Call up bill or marve and resolve it instead of putting posts on thier fan clubs site that would most certainly put a bad taste in the mouth of a person that was possibly thinking of converting to heritage. This is not the place to bash heritage, regardless of the cosmetic issue or the nut. It makes heritage look bad and we all know they are the best of the best.

 

Guido I wish you the best with your 150, and even though my truss rod cover is way right of center on the head stock of my 3000 dollar 157 it's still the best guitar I have ever owned or ever will own. Hopefully you will understand where my point of view is coming from.

I know that we are all passionate about Heritage. I am too!

But you need to see it from a different kind of view.

I've saved my money the whole last year to buy a new Heritage H150, because my used '93 is a great guitar and the best LP I've played so far.

I know that handmade items have flaws. I also think that these flaws can add "character" to a product.

But if you leave your passion beside for a moment, than you must admit that the flaws on this guitar are a little bit too much.

That nut e.g. makes the guitar unplayable. A lot of you suggested that a repair is worse it.

If you would buy a new BMW, probably the first thing you wanna do is to drive on the highway. I don't think you would be happy if the first thing would be to be pulled to the next service garage.

I bought a guitar worse more than 2000$ and it's unplayable! Forget about the binding and the black mark.

The nut and the electronics are a nogo. I guess the dealer will not admit that he messed with the electronics and I am not sure he really did. Just my feeling.

 

I can understand your point because I am still passionate about the brand and the guitars.

But think about a guy who never had a Heritage before. This guitar is his first. I guess it will be his last too.

 

I am not bashing Heritage. Heritage is bashing themselves if products like this continue to show up on the market.

And I really hope this is not going to be the case.

 

If so many guys of you know Marv and the rest of the gang, can you bring this topic up to them?

I'm sitting in Germany and they never responded to my emails so far.

I can try to call them but I don't think this would help much.

Would be great if somebody who is close to the "family" can bring this up.

 

Guido

[brentrocks]

The Jayce is right....this is not the place for voicing your displeasure with a purchase. Eventhought we feel your pain, the dealer and the factory are where your gripes should be placed.

 

I saw this so much on another factory forum many yrs ago...all it does is bring everybody down, and usually end up with somebody quitting the forum.

 

Guido, i REALLY, Sincerly, feel bad for you...if you would like, i will assist you in contacting the factory, if you want. But the DEALER is really where you need to start. they are your factory connection.

[bebove64]

If so many guys of you know Marv and the rest of the gang, can you bring this topic up to them?

I'm sitting in Germany and they never responded to my emails so far.

I can try to call them but I don't think this would help much.

Would be great if somebody who is close to the "family" can bring this up.

 

Guido

Hey guys please help Guido,expecially those from Kalamazoo area. The good folks at Parsons Street will understand.

Remember guys,Guido is from Germany and he ordered the guitar from a dealer in Poland.

[brentrocks]

did you email to this address?

 

heritageguitar@kalamazoo.net

[Guido]

The Jayce is right....this is not the place for voicing your displeasure with a purchase. Eventhought we feel your pain, the dealer and the factory are where your gripes should be placed.

 

I saw this so much on another factory forum many yrs ago...all it does is bring everybody down, and usually end up with somebody quitting the forum.

 

Guido, i REALLY, Sincerly, feel bad for you...if you would like, i will assist you in contacting the factory, if you want. But the DEALER is really where you need to start. they are your factory connection.

Brent, like I said before I really can understand all your passionate points and arguments.

But this is a forum to discuss Heritage guitars, right? So it's only allowed to discuss things that are ok and not the bad ones?

How can things change, if there is no criticism and self reflection possible? I don't think this is the right way.

But I will stop now to avoid any damage "I" will create by continuing this thread.

 

Of course I am tryining to contact the dealer. But so far without any success.

And of course I used the right email adress: heritageguitar@kalamazoo.net.

 

So you offered your help. I will happily accept it!

[JeffB]

Brent, like I said before I really can understand all your passionate points and arguments.

But this is a forum to discuss Heritage guitars, right? So it's only allowed to discuss things that are ok and not the bad ones?

How can things change, if there is no criticism and self reflection possible? I don't think this is the right way.

But I will stop now to avoid any damage "I" will create by continuing this thread.

 

Of course I am tryining to contact the dealer. But so far without any success.

And of course I used the right email adress: heritageguitar@kalamazoo.net.

 

So you offered your help. I will happily accept it!

Heritage guitar forum. The good and the bad as far as I see it.

A guitar forum where you couldnt talk about problems or inconsistency's would be like a religion or a country that rewrote its history books to leave out the distasteful parts.

Little bit of honesty and truth never hurt anyone.

[brentrocks]

Brent, like I said before I really can understand all your passionate points and arguments.

But this is a forum to discuss Heritage guitars, right? So it's only allowed to discuss things that are ok and not the bad ones?

How can things change, if there is no criticism and self reflection possible? I don't think this is the right way.

But I will stop now to avoid any damage "I" will create by continuing this thread.

 

Of course I am tryining to contact the dealer. But so far without any success.

And of course I used the right email adress: heritageguitar@kalamazoo.net.

 

So you offered your help. I will happily accept it!

 

i also sent an email to Ren..possibly your emails have been filtered out because they are comming from over seas....but hopefully i will hear from Ren soon

[brentrocks]

i just got off the phone with Ren. he says he has not recieved any emails from you...so possibly the spam filters have misplaced them?

 

the first thing he asked me was what is the serial #? Ren said that a lot of times the Heritages that get bought over seas sit around for a long time, not that this would effect your issues, but Ren would like to know if it is a 2006-2009-2010?

 

Ren said he will be looking in his spam folders to see if he can find your mail.

[Patrick]

I must agree with Tully. I didn't see any Heritage bashing, as was suggested in earlier posts. I read of concerns related to quality assurance and control. To Guido's and Tully's point, if this is truly a forum to discuss "All Things Heritage" . . as stated on the forum description, then that includes Guido's concerns. No one said "Heritage sucks", or "Heritage is the pits" or "Heritage doesn't care about it's products and/or it's customers". There was a concern expressed that this one slipped through . . . and it shouldn't have. For those of you who have concerns that someone from the outside might read this thread and be turned off to Heritage, I say this; good press and good word of "word of mouth" need to be earned, not assumed. I would believe that someone from the outside would interpret this thread as . . . "WOW!! Here's a passionate group of guys that love this company, it's people and it's guitars enough to hold them accountable for their perceived supremacy".

 

Guido's reaching out to those of you here in HOC was more out of desperation and frustration with having a problem and not being able to get resolution from the dealer and not being able to get through to Heritage . . for what ever reason. What would you have had him do? This forum was his last resource.

 

What would all of your reactions have been if this was an R9?? Ya think there might have been a little Gibson bashing happening??

 

The important thing is that now that Brent has gotten word to Ren, Heritage will definitely step up to the bar and make this right. They will also hopefully contact this dealer in Poland and demand better customer support from them. There is nothing wrong with that guitar that a competent dealer guitar tech couldn't resolve. They are now also alerted to the fact that they may need to put some further corrective steps in place to see to it that this sort of thing doesn't happen again in the future.

 

I saw no Heritage bashing at all here.

[Guido]

i just got off the phone with Ren. he says he has not recieved any emails from you...so possibly the spam filters have misplaced them?

 

the first thing he asked me was what is the serial #? Ren said that a lot of times the Heritages that get bought over seas sit around for a long time, not that this would effect your issues, but Ren would like to know if it is a 2006-2009-2010?

 

Ren said he will be looking in his spam folders to see if he can find your mail.

Thanks very much!

I'm still at work, so I am not able to send the mail again. But it will be the first thing when I come home.

[NoNameBand]

Hey Patrick it's nice to hear from you. I agree with your rant as well as many others. I would side with reason here. I believe that the fine folks at Heritage should be brought in to this and get their opinion and see what their proposed solution is. It just seems to me that the guitar is better to fix than scrap. No, it is not my guitar and not my choice. But if it were my money, I would want to be made happy with my purchase. I would not be satisfied with anything less than what I wanted and think that the folks at Heritage Are in a position to give me what I ordered, even if the dealer is not.

[koula901]

Just what I was thinking Patrick. I have watched their electronics guy a few times. I made my living with a soldering iron for almost 15 years as an R&D tech. Their guy is smooth and very clean. I shake like a dog shitting a peach seed when I have an iron and molten solder close to a guitar.

 

Somebody has been messing with this guitar and they had no business doing so.

 

+1 - I would suspect someone was messing with the electronics, and am suspicious of the dealer.

 

@ Bird - you have such a poetic way of expressing yourself! ; )

[millemots]

i useda think you musta had a hard time walking giving that you seemed to have such big balls and all. are you gettin soft in your old age? cuz youre starten to make more sense with ever post you make. just kidden you old man, i agree with what you said here!

 

I must agree with Tully. I didn't see any Heritage bashing, as was suggested in earlier posts. I read of concerns related to quality assurance and control. To Guido's and Tully's point, if this is truly a forum to discuss "All Things Heritage" . . as stated on the forum description, then that includes Guido's concerns. No one said "Heritage sucks", or "Heritage is the pits" or "Heritage doesn't care about it's products and/or it's customers". There was a concern expressed that this one slipped through . . . and it shouldn't have. For those of you who have concerns that someone from the outside might read this thread and be turned off to Heritage, I say this; good press and good word of "word of mouth" need to be earned, not assumed. I would believe that someone from the outside would interpret this thread as . . . "WOW!! Here's a passionate group of guys that love this company, it's people and it's guitars enough to hold them accountable for their perceived supremacy".

 

Guido's reaching out to those of you here in HOC was more out of desperation and frustration with having a problem and not being able to get resolution from the dealer and not being able to get through to Heritage . . for what ever reason. What would you have had him do? This forum was his last resource.

 

What would all of your reactions have been if this was an R9?? Ya think there might have been a little Gibson bashing happening??

 

The important thing is that now that Brent has gotten word to Ren, Heritage will definitely step up to the bar and make this right. They will also hopefully contact this dealer in Poland and demand better customer support from them. There is nothing wrong with that guitar that a competent dealer guitar tech couldn't resolve. They are now also alerted to the fact that they may need to put some further corrective steps in place to see to it that this sort of thing doesn't happen again in the future.

 

I saw no Heritage bashing at all here.

[NoNameBand]

Just what I was thinking Patrick. I have watched their electronics guy a few times. I made my living with a soldering iron for almost 15 years as an R&D tech. Their guy is smooth and very clean. I shake like a dog shitting a peach seed when I have an iron and molten solder close to a guitar.

 

Somebody has been messing with this guitar and they had no business doing so.

 

 

+1 - I would suspect someone was messing with the electronics, and am suspicious of the dealer.

 

@ Bird - you have such a poetic way of expressing yourself! ; )

 

Eloquent to say the least. I always enjoy the linguistics of an educated spot welder. Well said, especially, when some of us just can't seem to find the right words for the moment.