Guido Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Ok here's something I noticed! "The Storm" had a really shallow top curvature compared to my '93 H150. This also caused rasing the bridge at the low e string side to avoid fret buzzing when playing at the higher frets. On my search for a new H150 I noticed that almost every new or newer H150 has the bridge raised high at the low e string side. This also effects that at least the strings at the low e string side touch the front end of the bridge, which can lead to string breakage. Did anybody else notice that? Is it just factory setup or did the top curvature change? I also noticed that at newer H150's the saddles in the bridge are in one line. Are they using the PLEK machine again? First I thought it's just a coincidence but then I noticed that that's the fact on almost every new H150. Maybe I am just more sensitive with more attention to detail due to "The Storm"?! Just wondering!
mars_hall Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Ok here's something I noticed! "The Storm" had a really shallow top curvature compared to my '93 H150. This also caused rasing the bridge at the low e string side to avoid fret buzzing when playing at the higher frets. On my search for a new H150 I noticed that almost every new or newer H150 has the bridge raised high at the low e string side. This also effects that at least the strings at the low e string side touch the front end of the bridge, which can lead to string breakage. Did anybody else notice that? Is it just factory setup or did the top curvature change? I also noticed that at newer H150's the saddles in the bridge are in one line. Are they using the PLEK machine again? First I thought it's just a coincidence but then I noticed that that's the fact on almost every new H150. Maybe I am just more sensitive with more attention to detail due to "The Storm"?! Just wondering! Are the bridges the same on the '93 and the new one? Probably not, they were using rollers bridges which expose less of the stud. Maybe this is what you are seeing. The forms I saw for the carving machine look older so I would guess that the curve has not changed. The last I heard, the PLEK machine was still dormant.
tulk1 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Maybe I am just more sensitive with more attention to detail due to "The Storm"?! Just wondering! That would be my guess. Just to build on Mark's comments: the machine they use for carving was made years ago, by them. It's quite the piece of mad scientist. I would seriously doubt they've changed a thing on that carver, other than the motor. And the Plek is a coat rack, last we saw.
Gitfiddler Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Jay Wolfe ads for 150's claim 'deep dish carve'. There is no indication of it being something new or upgraded. It looks like that is the way Heritage carves their 150/157 tops. If anyone has any direct knowledge about differring carves, please chime in.
koula901 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Chiming in . . . the 150 I had last spring seemed to have a deep carve, although I don't know how qualified I am to make the judgment that it was 'deep' as I'd never owned a 150 or LP style guitar before, but I do recall a prominent curve to the top.
MartyGrass Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I haven't noticed a change in carve. They have gone through several iterations of bridges, at least three on ones I have. I'm a big fan of their current hardware. The roller bridges and earlier TOMs worked fine, too. I've never felt an urge to swap the components.
FredZepp Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I believe that my 150's each have a different top carve. The '92 is deeper than the '00. Isn't the top carve really finalized on the big belt sander, which would be up to who is using it....? I know that the '58- '60 Bursts vary in the curve due to the hand made nature of that sanding.
tulk1 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I believe that my 150's each have a different top carve. The '92 is deeper than the '00. Isn't the top carve really finalized on the big belt sander, which would be up to who is using it....? I know that the '58- '60 Bursts vary in the curve due to the hand made nature of that sanding. In the end .... yep. Again, hand finished so it's going to vary. But I can't imagine it's enough variance that it would seem like a different "standard" now vs. earlier on.
Patrick Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I believe that my 150's each have a different top carve. The '92 is deeper than the '00. Isn't the top carve really finalized on the big belt sander, which would be up to who is using it....? I know that the '58- '60 Bursts vary in the curve due to the hand made nature of that sanding. Fred: You're exactly correct. If anyone has ever seen this process while it's being done, it becomes immediately clear to them that no 2 tops will EVER have exactly the same dish. Similarly shaped is about as close as it will get. The belt sander is going "round and round" the guitar is placed under it . . but the belt never touches the guitar. Then, the craftsperson wraps his/her hand with a cloth, to prevent friction burn, and presses the belt onto the top. The results will vary due to the subjectivity and desire of the person doing the sanding, but, may also vary because the person sees an imperfection in the wood that they want to try to sand out. At this point, the wood assembly of the guitar is pretty much complete . . so, if someone takes slightly too much "dish" out of a top, they are not likely to scrap the whole guitar. This is the very way, and one of the very same machines that was used when sanding the tops of the original "58 thru 60 LPs. The late James "Hutch" Hutchins insisted on the same type of machine and process when he took control of the Custom Shop in Nashville. Prior to that, the dish on Reissues was NEVER correct. It represented the single biggest dissension by the Reissue purists who wanted better accuracy. This process of sanding the top, along with "rolling" the necks are the 2 most critical stages of getting a good guitar vs getting a great guitar.
SouthpawGuy Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I've seen "deep dish carve" or similar used to describe the tops on some Heritages. Didn't a HOC member get fairly recent custom order that was "extra" carved ? edit: wasn't it big bobs 170 ?
FredZepp Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I've seen "deep dish carve" or similar used to describe the tops on some Heritages. Didn't a HOC member get fairly recent custom order that was "extra" carved ? edit: wasn't it big bobs 170 ? Yes... And yes.. it is..
Patrick Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I've seen "deep dish carve" or similar used to describe the tops on some Heritages. Didn't a HOC member get fairly recent custom order that was "extra" carved ? Yeah . . . you could specify that. But, it's a tricky and a scary thing to try to pull off correctly. Some of the earliest LPs, the late '52 and earlier '53s had such deep dish, that it made it impossible to set some of them up with the trapeze tail piece. They had to reduce the dish and go with the stop TP. Some of those guitars that are currently in collections aren't even playable!!
mars_hall Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 These are the master forms that are used by the carver for shaping. You really can't tell much from this photo other than to say the forms are old and well used. If you look close as I did when taking the picture, you can see the exact model that the shape template is being used on.
smurph1 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I haven't noticed a change in carve. They have gone through several iterations of bridges, at least three on ones I have. I'm a big fan of their current hardware. The roller bridges and earlier TOMs worked fine, too. I've never felt an urge to swap the components. Yep..I Love TonePros Hardware, The Schaller stuff is ok, but if I can ever afford another 140 or Maybe even a 150, if it has Schaller hardware, I'll defintely be switching to Tonepros.. My 2 cents..
tulk1 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Whatever, I think they're damned sexy curves!! Deep or shallow. Just yummy!!!
Kuz Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I have four 150s. (From '05-'09) I think (not sure) that the low E barely touches the back of the bridge. Terry McInturff said on Nashville bridges this is common and because of the metal posts screwed into the top of the guitar, any bridge collapse is essentially impossible. As long as the "break line" from the back of the bridge to the stoptail is not absurd (in other words, if the line of the string coming off the saddle to the back of the bridge is close to a straight line to the Stoptail you are fine). By the way all my 150s sound unbelievable!!!!!
Kuz Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Jay Wolfe ads for 150's claim 'deep dish carve'. There is no indication of it being something new or upgraded. It looks like that is the way Heritage carves their 150/157 tops. If anyone has any direct knowledge about differring carves, please chime in. Here is a photo response with my '06 Goldtop 150 P-90... I'd think it is fair to call this one (and all my 150s) a "deep dish carve"!!!!! (of the angle of the light enhances the look)
FredZepp Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Ok here's something I noticed! "The Storm" had a really shallow top curvature compared to my '93 H150. This also caused rasing the bridge at the low e string side to avoid fret buzzing when playing at the higher frets. On my search for a new H150 I noticed that almost every new or newer H150 has the bridge raised high at the low e string side. This also effects that at least the strings at the low e string side touch the front end of the bridge, which can lead to string breakage. Did anybody else notice that? Is it just factory setup or did the top curvature change? While our conversation has concentrated on the carve of the top, the original comments in this post seem to have to do with the neck angle.. which determines the bridge height. Not that any of this should present a problem in any case, I find that Heritage guitars set up with a great action with an authentic vintage feel.
peerless Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Fred: You're exactly correct. If anyone has ever seen this process while it's being done, it becomes immediately clear to them that no 2 tops will EVER have exactly the same dish. Similarly shaped is about as close as it will get. The belt sander is going "round and round" the guitar is placed under it . . but the belt never touches the guitar. Then, the craftsperson wraps his/her hand with a cloth, to prevent friction burn, and presses the belt onto the top. The results will vary due to the subjectivity and desire of the person doing the sanding, but, may also vary because the person sees an imperfection in the wood that they want to try to sand out. At this point, the wood assembly of the guitar is pretty much complete . . so, if someone takes slightly too much "dish" out of a top, they are not likely to scrap the whole guitar. This is the very way, and one of the very same machines that was used when sanding the tops of the original "58 thru 60 LPs. The late James "Hutch" Hutchins insisted on the same type of machine and process when he took control of the Custom Shop in Nashville. Prior to that, the dish on Reissues was NEVER correct. It represented the single biggest dissension by the Reissue purists who wanted better accuracy. This process of sanding the top, along with "rolling" the necks are the 2 most critical stages of getting a good guitar vs getting a great guitar. Alright, now this is useful information, man,, thanks. But why are these the most critical stages and what exactly is rolling of the neck? Do you mean that "to much dish" would cause the hardware to be more difficult to setup?
FredZepp Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Alright, now this is useful information, man,, thanks. But why are these the most critical stages and what exactly is rolling of the neck? Do you mean that "to much dish" would cause the hardware to be more difficult to setup? This is a pick from our Photo Gallery.. 2009 PSP II. It's a belt sander being used to handshape the neck... ( he's rolling it on the belt sander.... )
MartyGrass Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Here is a photo response with my '06 Goldtop 150 P-90... I'd think it is fair to call this one (and all my 150s) a "deep dish carve"!!!!! (of the angle of the light enhances the look) Your guitar looks pregnant. Congrats.
big bob Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 I've seen "deep dish carve" or similar used to describe the tops on some Heritages. Didn't a HOC member get fairly recent custom order that was "extra" carved ? edit: wasn't it big bobs 170 ? Kate made my 170 with an extra deep dish carve, on the first attempt they sanded through the maple to the hog. Thats how I got the ultra top, it was one of the only tops left at the time.
602a Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Here is a photo response with my '06 Goldtop 150 P-90... I'd think it is fair to call this one (and all my 150s) a "deep dish carve"!!!!! (of the angle of the light enhances the look) The Gold Tops really show off the carve better than any model. If it looks pregnant it's a good carve. The 06 150VSB I just got has a huge fat belly. where as Pearly Gates was not as pronounced. This may also be part of the difference in weights of the two.PG at 8 or 9 and New 59 at 11.5 Just my guess.
brentrocks Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 My GT is a 2006 and it has a pretty deep dish... My 150 DLX is a 1989 and also has a good dish...
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