Compared a 150 to some Les Pauls today.

[mark555]

It's in the musician fellas not the headstock. Both are nice guitars but just boat anchors if they arnt in a good set of hands,,,just sayin???? Maybe some of us need to get past the brand phase of guitar playing :0) Spending 4000+ on a guitar isnt going to impress anyone but your guitar playing skills will.................. Both guitars are awsome but the endless circle of which is better is rediculous, however people can tell the better guitarist when compared, instantly! The guitar is second in line in the good sounding equation. So please everyone let this type of sensless coparisons come to an end, although we all know that isnt gonna happen anytime soon. Peace.

 

I agree with all you say about it being in the musician's hands. Yesterday I watched a programme about Thin Lizzy, and Scott Gorham auditioned for them using a cheap japanese copy of a Les Paul because he had sold his best guitar so he could eat.

 

However, in my point of view, the comparison between the Heritage and Gibson is very valid because the Les Paul in question, being the R8 or R9, is thousands of £'s dearer here in the UK than a 150CM ultra would cost. and that shows why the Gibson is so very over priced, and why it is common sense to buy the Heritage. Unless, of course, you must have Gibson on the headstock. I would rather have Tokai on the headstock than Gibson! (as far as £= quality).

[guitarnut1]

However, in my point of view, the comparison between the Heritage and Gibson is very valid because the Les Paul in question, being the R8 or R9, is thousands of £'s dearer here in the UK than a 150CM ultra would cost. and that shows why the Gibson is so very over priced, and why it is common sense to buy the Heritage. Unless, of course, you must have Gibson on the headstock. I would rather have Tokai on the headstock than Gibson! (as far as £= quality).

 

I haven't seen any used 150 Ultras for ages in the EU. Even on ebay US, they don't show up often, in fact I've been looking for a used one for the last year or so, and didn't see a single one on the US bay either. A new Ultra costs about 2300USD. Considering the low resale value, I wouldn't buy a new one. Used ones are however really best value for money! I still miss my 150 ultra, it had nice jumbo frets, excelent action, tone... perfect in every aspect. The only thing I didn't dig that much about it, was the rather slim neck. Apart from that, everything on this guitar was to die for. Funny thing is, the guy I bought it from really missed it as well, and ordered EXACTLY the same (in burnt amber) from the States. Oh well, I made the same mistake like he did and sold it after about 2 years

[smurph1]

Another Gibson Custom Shop AND Heritage Custom Shop fan here.

 

I'd compare my R7 Goldtop and R68 Custom very favorably to H150's and H157's respectively. As stated previously, the biggest difference being the true custom options available on Heritages. To me that sets them apart from Gibson as a brand and as a niche builder. I recall Vince speaking at a NAMM interview about the intentions of Heritage to be a medium sized boutique guitar builder with custom options available to their customers. That is nowhere near what Gibson is attempting to do. So the bottom line is that you really are comparing apples to oranges, but in the end, getting some incredible fruit from both builders...just different.

 

As for buying new or used, buy what you want and buy what you can afford. That is a very personal decision. Heritage after market prices are rising, even in a down market for luxury items. So if you want one, get what turns you on and brings you the most joy. Interestingly enough, I recently sold off one of my Gibsons to fund a new Heritage. To me that was a very good deal...for me. I wasn't playing the Gibson because I've been spoiled by my Heritages, and wanted another. Out went the Gibby, in came the Millenium 155! I couldn't be happier with that move. I think Kuz sold a vintage Gibson 355 several years ago and ended up with some of the sweetest custom Heritages on this forum.

 

I see the value of Heritages increasing each time I play one. The increased value is to me...especially since I do not plan on selling them any time soon.

i TOTALLY agree with what Git said..It depends on what the term "Value" means to you..If it is monetary value, perhaps a Gibby is the ticket..But if the "Value" is in the joy of making music..It's Heritage..Hands Down..YMMV

[the jayce]

I agree with all you say about it being in the musician's hands. Yesterday I watched a programme about Thin Lizzy, and Scott Gorham auditioned for them using a cheap japanese copy of a Les Paul because he had sold his best guitar so he could eat.

 

However, in my point of view, the comparison between the Heritage and Gibson is very valid because the Les Paul in question, being the R8 or R9, is thousands of £'s dearer here in the UK than a 150CM ultra would cost. and that shows why the Gibson is so very over priced, and why it is common sense to buy the Heritage. Unless, of course, you must have Gibson on the headstock. I would rather have Tokai on the headstock than Gibson! (as far as £= quality).

I agree 100%! The heritage is so much more for the dollars paid. A heritage is truly a piece of art and craftsmanship as is the les paul, but like most folks I want my dollars spent wisely and you just cannot beat what you get in a heritage for the money. Even if I could afford to buy an r series les paul I wouldnt be able to get past the fact I could buy 3 heritages that are thier equal for the same money (used of course) but 3 none the less. Those of you who have an R series lespaul my hats off to ya, because i wouldnt be being honest if I didnt admit that i would love to own one of them as well. But in the mean time I have one bad a--ed h-157 i would put up against any reissue gibby out there and that gibby had better ate it's wheaties that mornin--lol..... cause it's gonna need'em! Oh yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh :0) Peace!

[mark555]

Jayce, I agree with you. Why spend £6000 on a Gibson R series when a 150cm is every bit as good? I keep coming back to the point that Gibson are just ripping people off with their R 8/9 guitars. I can not see where the extra money is that is being charged. As you say, good on all those folks who have them and enjoy them. But for me, knowing it's all marketing hype, I just couldn't go there even if I had the money.

[Kuz]

As far as money goes, and this is a MAJOR PET PEEVE OF MINE, I would pay more for a Heritage vs a Gibson.

 

Yes, I said I would pay more for a Custom Heritage than a R8, R9, or a Ryoucrazy!!!

 

Bottom line, is when people say "And Heritages cost hundreds less" it's like they are saying they would buy a Gibson if cost wasn't an issue. Well, I wouldn't.

 

With Heritage: I love the people, I love the product, I love the handmade/old world craftsmanship, and I love the laid back business acumen, HELL I even love the headstock!!! (plus they don't BS people into believing they have REVOLUTIONIZED THE GUITAR INDUSTRY with some POS Explorer or Robot Guitar).

 

Cost is irrelevant for me!!! And I'm not some rich oil barren, just an average mid-western Heritage junkie!!

[bolero]

that's good to hear...can you buy me a guitar or two, too? haha

 

the barren Baron

[Halowords]

As far as money goes, and this is a MAJOR PET PEEVE OF MINE, I would pay more for a Heritage vs a Gibson.

 

Yes, I said I would pay more for a Custom Heritage than a R8, R9, or a Ryoucrazy!!!

 

Bottom line, is when people say "And Heritages cost hundreds less" it's like they are saying they would buy a Gibson if cost wasn't an issue. Well, I wouldn't.

 

To be honest, I agree with you. Admittedly, I am cheap. For the sake of the happiness of my marriage, I buy my guitars used. But I'll probably eventually end up with a new Heritage, and I would pay more for a Heritage than a Gibson as well. I think they are made better, I believe in the company, not to mention supporting the small business model, and the whole combo of thinking Heritage in general makes a better product while also providing a much more conscionable choice to buy from.

 

That said, the cheaper cost is a nice selling point. Most people are looking for a deal, and particularly in this economic climate it really does make it an easier sales pitch. I will say, I would pay more for a Heritage (within reason, the economic realities of the middle class give me some leeway, but I'm not independently wealthy), and I definitely feel inclined to buy an H-150 or have a custom job from Heritage before I'd get a Gibson R# or anything else. I see what you are saying, and I'm not quite the Heritage nut that you are, but as a general rule I think I agree with you pretty much absolutely on this.

[guitarnut1]

The guy I bought my first Heritage from (a 150 Ultra), had sold it to buy a Gibson LP Classic (what a mistake!!! ). Then seeing that the name and the headstock shape and logo, don't make the guitar, he instantly sold it, and ordered another 150 Ultra.

 

I sold my Ultra, to buy an R8, ended up buying a Gibson CS Catalina model (couldn't resist the offer, was really cheap). But man, what a disapointment! It looked like a cheap chinese job! The logo was off, the action was bad, the finish was kind of thick and looked like a poly finish. I wanted my 150 ultra back again.

 

I think I'm not the only one with this kind of experience.

[mark555]

The guy I bought my first Heritage from (a 150 Ultra), had sold it to buy a Gibson LP Classic (what a mistake!!! ). Then seeing that the name and the headstock shape and logo, don't make the guitar, he instantly sold it, and ordered another 150 Ultra.

 

I sold my Ultra, to buy an R8, ended up buying a Gibson CS Catalina model (couldn't resist the offer, was really cheap). But man, what a disapointment! It looked like a cheap chinese job! The logo was off, the action was bad, the finish was kind of thick and looked like a poly finish. I wanted my 150 ultra back again.

 

I think I'm not the only one with this kind of experience.

 

I went the other route, going from Gibson to Heritage. Never looked back! I do dream of a 150 though ...... one day, one day.

[the jayce]

As far as money goes, and this is a MAJOR PET PEEVE OF MINE, I would pay more for a Heritage vs a Gibson.

 

Yes, I said I would pay more for a Custom Heritage than a R8, R9, or a Ryoucrazy!!!

 

Bottom line, is when people say "And Heritages cost hundreds less" it's like they are saying they would buy a Gibson if cost wasn't an issue. Well, I wouldn't.

 

With Heritage: I love the people, I love the product, I love the handmade/old world craftsmanship, and I love the laid back business acumen, HELL I even love the headstock!!! (plus they don't BS people into believing they have REVOLUTIONIZED THE GUITAR INDUSTRY with some POS Explorer or Robot Guitar).

 

Cost is irrelevant for me!!! And I'm not some rich oil barren, just an average mid-western Heritage junkie!!

 

Kuz I see your point very well. Now judging by your avatar of guitars and amps which is just awsome array of heritage guitars and amps too by the way, you probably are sitting pretty well in the ole' financial situation which naturally is going to lead to your opinion on the cost not being an issue. If I had a substantial amount of indicretional money to spend I would be buyin mostly heritages as well and the cost factor wouldnt be an issue. But in my situation and probably most of us folks here we have but one shot at a big purchase guitar so there is no way that the amount paid wouldnt be a major deciding factor. You have the means for purchasing many guitars which is great! where as In the case of my 157 unfortunetaly it is probably the last big purchase i can see in the far future. Please know that it isnt just a matter of the lower dollars as being the reason my heritage was the purchase of choice because Thats what I wanted but it sure doesnt hurt my feelings any that thier so much more cost friendly, and for a guy like me that makes a big difference...... Now hopefully some day I can purchase a few more of these heritage gems, and yes thier price point is going to be one of the major reasons why along with thier quality and playability ect ect,, definetally not just because it's way cheaper than the gibby R series.

 

But you can bet if i won the lottery i'd be buyin evey heritage i could get my hands on regardless of what it cost!!! OH YEAH.......

[Patrick]

As far as money goes, and this is a MAJOR PET PEEVE OF MINE, I would pay more for a Heritage vs a Gibson.

 

Yes, I said I would pay more for a Custom Heritage than a R8, R9, or a Ryoucrazy!!!

 

Bottom line, is when people say "And Heritages cost hundreds less" it's like they are saying they would buy a Gibson if cost wasn't an issue. Well, I wouldn't.

 

With Heritage: I love the people, I love the product, I love the handmade/old world craftsmanship, and I love the laid back business acumen, HELL I even love the headstock!!! (plus they don't BS people into believing they have REVOLUTIONIZED THE GUITAR INDUSTRY with some POS Explorer or Robot Guitar).

 

Cost is irrelevant for me!!! And I'm not some rich oil barren, just an average mid-western Heritage junkie!!

 

John: As you might imagine, I must take issue with your post. Of course cost is relevant. For most, cost translates to affordability ..as the jayce has pointed out. But it also applies in your own case as well. Based upon your avatar, if all of those beautiful Heritages were Custom Shop Historic reissues, and were all purchased new, you would have spent somewhere around $40,000. As Heritages, you've probably spent less than half that amount. The Golden Eagle you just bought is a take off on a Gibson Historic Reissue Wes Montgomery. Right now they're selling for around $7,000 new. Would you have spent $7,000 . . right now . . . if you were a Gibson fan? Would you have $40,000 in guitar inventory . . .right now . . if you were a Gibson fan? Think of where you were, financially, when you purchased each of your Heritages. Would you have bought their Gibson counter parts . . at that time .. .if you were a Gibson fan? I can pretty much afford to buy any guitar I want. I don't say that in a braggadocios context . . but as part of a point I am about to make. I really would love to buy another R9 . . but, I'm hesitant to spend the $5,500 or so that a really beautifully flamed one would cost. However, if I accidentally run into another H150, as beautiful as the one I bought at a local GC for $900 . . .and it costs any where near $1,000 . .I would buy it without thinking twice. Money, cost, price . . is always relevant . . unless your in Oprah's or Bill Gates' financial arena.

 

Also, not everyone who buys a Gibson Custom Shop Historic reissue is making a mistake, or crazy . .as suggested in your "Ryoucrazy" reference. Some really prefer the Reissues over the Heritage or any other brand. Your reasons for buying and loving Heritages are all valid and I share each of them. But, there is no denying that the Gibson Reissues are wonderful guitars. Also, in their own way, they are more pertinent to "the history of Gibson" than Heritages are. If you've ever looked at a Tom Murphy aged '59 LP (R9) . . you will see that it is every bit as well made as ANY Heritage H150 . . .and it actually looks like a 50 year old guitar. And, as I've said repeatedly, Gibson's Custom Shop is what it is because of the late James Hutchins. I see it as a more modern version of Parsons Street.

 

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/hutch-legacy-0125/

 

So . . . then . . . if as you say money or cost is irrelevant, and someone loves the Gibson brand as much as you do the Heritage brand ...why not buy a reissue?

[mark555]

cost was a major factor for me when I bought my 555. How crazy is it that a used 335 would have been £600 more than what I paid for my Heritage? Had the Heritage not had such a low resale price at the time, I would have perhaps had to purchase a Tokai clone of a 335 (which in fairness isn't a bad guitar). But for guys like Jayce and myself, cost is always a factor and yes, I am exactly the in the same situation, no chance of another good guitar in the foreseeable future.

 

But as I have always said, our dear friend John, aka Kuz, has exquisite taste in guitars, and I am so happy that he and others in a position to do so can own so many and then share the joy of ownership with the rest of us.

[guitarnut1]

I like Gibson guitars. But not EVERY Gibson guitar. The problem is that the ones I usually like, cost nearly twice as much as a Heritage of similar if not better quality.

 

Why buy a brand? See Robben Ford who is playing an ugly custom built LP clone at the moment ( Jap made one)? I am sure the guitar plays awesome and he doesn't care it hasn't got Gibson on it.

[Patrick]

I like Gibson guitars. But not EVERY Gibson guitar. The problem is that the ones I usually like, cost nearly twice as much as a Heritage of similar if not better quality.

 

Why buy a brand? See Robben Ford who is playing an ugly custom built LP clone at the moment ( Jap made one)? I am sure the guitar plays awesome and he doesn't care it hasn't got Gibson on it.

 

Unless he has changed, Robben Ford is playing a beat up but original '57 Gold Top, owned by Larry Carlton and on long term loan to Robben.

[Kuz]

WAIT, slow down everyone, hold on....

 

Another point that I made that, via the internet, was not taken as intended.

 

HERE I'LL MAKE MY POINT CLEARER.... I feel it is UNFAIR to Heritage Guitars IF someone is ONLY buying a HERITAGE over a GIBSON based on PRICE ALONE. AND CLEARER YET... My Pet Peeve is the phrase or response from many "I really wanted a Gibson R8, but bought a Heritage 150 because it was HALF THE PRICE"!!!!

OK, so hopefully that is clear.

 

My point is that Heritage quality, tone, feel, looks, true custom shop, small business acumen, friendly hard working, passion, ect.... SHOULD ALL BE CONSIDERED BEFORE THE "LOWER PRICE" IS MENTIONED.

And again, I am not saying Gibson can't/doesn't make a good guitar. I am saying that I have played one that was better than my Heritages.

 

AND FINALLY, most know the story of how I acquired the Heritage stable... From buying a '65 335 in 1990 for $1500 and selling it before the economy crashed for $11K (If the '65 335 was a stop tail I wouldn't have sold it). SO yes I make a middle (slightly upper middle) class living, but I don't "have the means" or the "disposable Income" to buy whatever Heritage I want. I am smart with my purchases, have done well on resale value of some amps & other guitars, and decided to use that money for Heritage guitars. (ie, The Heritage Eagle was funding buy selling a PRS Modern Eagle for nearly $5K so if a guitar comes in, one has to go out. I just refuse to sell my Heritage guitars!)

 

So I am not saying cost isn't an issue, I am saying that THE VALUE you get with Heritage is incredible vs Gibson. But it should be viewed as one of the LAST qualities of Heritage, not the first. Just my opinion, your opinion my vary and that is perfectly fine.

[Kuz]

I like Gibson guitars. But not EVERY Gibson guitar. The problem is that the ones I usually like, cost nearly twice as much as a Heritage of similar if not better quality.

 

Why buy a brand? See Robben Ford who is playing an ugly custom built LP clone at the moment ( Jap made one)? I am sure the guitar plays awesome and he doesn't care it hasn't got Gibson on it.

 

Robben Ford is playing the Gold Top Les Paul that Larry Carlton essentially gave to him.

 

Robben Ford DID play a Single Cut handcrafted guitar from a Japanese-American luthier that was custom to his specs and they are VERY expensive. SO you are correct, for one album he used this guitar. On the Larry Carlton & Robben Ford "Live in Japan" album, (I have the Live DVD) he plays the '57 LP for all songs but one. The song where he plays this Custom Single Cut, it sounded like poo!

 

On the "soul on Ten" CD, Robben is back to the '57 GT Les Paul and his tone is back. (In my opinion)

[sick1982]

I went to shop for a Gibson Traditional .. and bought a Heritage H-150 instead.

 

Sounded better, felt better, looked better, didn't had flaws in the finish, binding, ... and guess what, it was more expensive

[guitarnut1]

Unless he has changed, Robben Ford is playing a beat up but original '57 Gold Top, owned by Larry Carlton and on long term loan to Robben.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyXXMwKKN_g

 

this doesn't look like a gold top to me

 

But I know which guitar you mean, it's this one:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f5Q7KJPwjc

 

As far as I know, he's playing the jap made one, which was custom made by a japanese luthier specially for him...

[Patrick]

I went to shop for a Gibson Traditional .. and bought a Heritage H-150 instead.

 

Sounded better, felt better, looked better, didn't had flaws in the finish, binding, ... and guess what, it was more expensive

 

Yeah . . . you're comparing two very different products. The Gibson Traditional, or assembly line mass produced guitars as we all like to call them, are not even close to the same product as the hand crafted Heritage H150. Not only is the workmanship superior, but the raw and finished materials used is inferior to the Heritage products as well. Yet, they are able to charge more that they're worth and get it. Mostly, because the younger new players think . . . "a Gibson is a Gibson". They are clueless to the differences . . because, the Traditional look pretty darn close to the better ones coming out of the Custom Shop. The inexperienced player/buyer will never know the difference. My vision and perception of Gibson pretty much starts and ends with the Nashville Custom Shop.

[bobmeyrick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyXXMwKKN_g

 

this doesn't look like a gold top to me

 

But I know which guitar you mean, it's this one:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f5Q7KJPwjc

 

As far as I know, he's playing the jap made one, which was custom made by a japanese luthier specially for him...

Back in November 2006 Robben played at the Rescue Rooms in Nottingham and he played both the Gold Top and the Sakashta. Both sounded good to me. Taku Sakashta was tragically murdered just over a year ago. http://www.sakashtaguitars.com/

[duaneallen]

Boy, I really opened up a can of worms here. My basic consensus in comparing the guitars was that the Heritage (to me) sounded better than the Les Paul Traditional, but was equal to the R8. I would be happy with the Heritage or the R8, but I ended up getting a great deal on a new Heritage that was much cheaper than an R8. For me, price was a bit of a consideration. I must say that in the past, I have owned a 150 and a R8, and I ended up selling both. Don't know what that means, but I'm giving the 150 another try. I haven't received my 150 yet, so I'll let you know how I like it.