Bluzman54 Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 Looking for the pros and cons of buying a Heritage factory ( stamped "2" ) guitar. Are there are there other "flaw" stampings? If so, what do they all signify? I would appreciate your comments. Jim C
SouthpawGuy Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 My opinion, in a nut shell, everything else being considered, the age and condition of the guitar etc. .... it depends on the price.
FredZepp Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 Usually , finding a flaw in a Factory Second is very difficult. You get a better price, but also may get less on resale. (I like saving money , so seconds are fine to me ) They also can stamp a BGN.. Bargain .. These may have a visible defect or.. may be an employee purchased guitar, those were also stamped BGN.
brentrocks Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 if the price is right and it "looks and plays" ok...go for it...i have had a slu of #2s that were awesome
fxdx99 Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 ...i have had a slu of #2s that were awesome Too much information!! Moderator, Moderator - need clean up on aisle... ... oh wait, you're talking about guitars. Never mind.
High Flying Bird Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 I have an HFT-475 thaqt is a second and I couldn't find the reason for it being a second.
JohnCovach Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 I've got a 150 that's a second because of a blemish in the finish. It's a spectacular guitar.
MartyGrass Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 Being a second drops the resale value by about a third in my experience. I've owned quite a few Gibson 2nds and BGNs over the years. None I've seen had any functional problems. They make great players but can be hard to sell.
H Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 Too much information!! Moderator, Moderator - need clean up on aisle... ... oh wait, you're talking about guitars. Never mind. LMAO!!!!
DetroitBlues Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Pro's: Great Guitar Great Price Great Satification owning a Heritage Con's: Someone else bought it while you were asking us for an opinion
brentrocks Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Too much information!! Moderator, Moderator - need clean up on aisle... ... oh wait, you're talking about guitars. Never mind. if i had as many #2s as i had #2 Heritages...i'd be......well, happy
schundog Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Required Reading..... http://www.discountbooksale.com/store/productView.aspx?idProduct=73536&ec=1&ProdId=112&AWTrck=1038713935&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=whats%20your%20poo%20telling%20you&utm_campaign=acc001-0015&b=GGL_DBS_112_acc001_0015_73536_00_*GeoUSCA*__whats%20your%20poo%20telling%20you
big bob Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Usually , finding a flaw in a Factory Second is very difficult. You get a better price, but also may get less on resale. (I like saving money , so seconds are fine to me ) They also can stamp a BGN.. Bargain .. These may have a visible defect or.. may be an employee purchased guitar, those were also stamped BGN. I've owned three employee builds, still have two, and none!, none!, were stamped BGN, or #2 for that matter. 1. the Popsicle 2. My 170 custom (employee build by the lovely Kate) 3. my 575 custom non cutaway..
Genericmusic Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 What are you trying to achieve with the guitar? An investment? Don't buy a second. If you are buying a guitar for its tone, playability, etc., then by all means purchase it.
FredZepp Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 I've owned three employee builds, still have two, and none!, none!, were stamped BGN, or #2 for that matter. 1. the Popsicle 2. My 170 custom (employee build by the lovely Kate) 3. my 575 custom non cutaway.. Yeah.. that is something that might have been done in the very early days... From our portal page.. Understanding Factory Seconds, Factory Bargains and Special Runs Now that you have a grasp of serial number fundamentals, you will probably notice that some Heritage instruments have some extra identifying marks on the back of the headstock. Below are the three known markings which you might find, in addition to the standard serial number, on the back of the headstock: 2: As you might guess, this large number '2' pressed into the wood (not ink stamped) indicates a factory "second" instrument. These instruments typically exhibit some sort of visual, cosmetic or aesthetic defect which keeps them from being sold as first quality instrument. Anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that in most cases the supposed defect is not identifiable. BGN: When you find these three letters pressed into the wood (again, not ink stamped) on an instrument, it indicates a factory "bargain" instrument. It has been rumored that these are instruments that have mechanical or structural defects that prevent them from being classified as a factory second, but still remain playable for the most part. Some stories have surfaced that employees are given the opportunity to purchase instruments directly, and that those instruments are also stamped with the "BGN" marking. xxx: (where xxx represents a series of three digits) Instruments that are made in limited or special runs, either for specific dealers or as signature models for artists, are generally stamped with a three digit number indicating their sequence in the production of the special run.
big bob Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Yeah.. that is something that might have been done in the very early days... From our portal page.. Infidel!!!! Infidel!!! the words you speak are of the devil!! please return to the fiery pit from whence you have come..
FredZepp Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Infidel!!!! Infidel!!! the words you speak are of the devil!! please return to the fiery pit from whence you have come.. That cracked me up... Hey.. I have an employee purchased guitar also.. and no BGN on it either.. And there was plenty of room on that headstock too.
mark555 Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 I would have no issues with buying a so called second, I want a working instrument that plays well and sounds great.
DetroitBlues Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 I would have no issues with buying a so called second, I want a working instrument that plays well and sounds great. I was lucky enough to acquire a 1985 H-140CM. Its headstock was repaired, but I must say its one of the best guitars I've ever laid hands on...
barrymclark Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 This has probably already been said, but I want to say it my way cause that will make me feel important. The answer lies in your intent. If you want a guitar you are going to play and don't have a need for it selling it later with a decent return, then the 2's or BGN's are hard to beat. If you want a guitar that you are gonna play... or not... but also see it as an investment of some sort, then I would say stay away from these.
bolero Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 I have a factory 2nd H150 that is a fantastic guitar, has some finish flaws ( I think it may have gotten wet in the flood of 2005 ) but that doesn't bother me; in fact I've grown to prefer guitars with some history on them
brentrocks Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 the string collector in Galesburg, MI tends to get #2s....Rich Butler is the owner
MartyGrass Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 The rumor about employees getting the 2nds and BGNs is partly true, at least in the Gibson days. Employees were allowed to buy a limited number of guitars. That included the slightly flawed ones. Many of these defective ones were snatched up by the employees at a low charge. You can understand how attractive these deals were. Those who built guitars must have understood that slight defects didn't really matter much yet dropped the price a lot. Imagine a time where Gibson produced 400-500 guitars a day. That's a lot of employees buying these. The Kalamazoo market always had quite a few 2nds and BGNs from employees who sold them after a year or less. To my knowledge, intentional damage to a guitar during the build in order for it to be a 2nd didn't happen, although there were stories.
DetroitBlues Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 It also makes you wonder what exactly qualifies for a factory 2nd.
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