barrymclark Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 The rumor about employees getting the 2nds and BGNs is partly true, at least in the Gibson days. I can vouch for this. This practice DEFINITELY happened. I don't want to go into detail as I am not sure how sensitive this issue is with Gibson and don't want anything to come back to anyone... but guitars marked 2 definitely left with employees at freakshow discounts.
barrymclark Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 It also makes you wonder what exactly qualifies for a factory 2nd. You'd be shocked.
DetroitBlues Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Its all good as long as we get a shot at them too. Perhaps, the factory should have a local outlet store in which they can sell their "2nds" to the general public.
MartyGrass Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Its all good as long as we get a shot at them too. Perhaps, the factory should have a local outlet store in which they can sell their "2nds" to the general public. With 500 guitars completed a day, there will be a few 2nds. With 5 a day there should be almost none. I'm sure many of the minor dings in hardware setup are fixed. It makes sense that Heritage minimize the release of imperfect guitars. 2nds not only are less profitable to the company, but they compete with #1 instruments.
tulk1 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 I thought Gibs used GC these days for their seconds and bargains. .........
Mikenov Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 One of my favorite 150s I owned was a second. I couldn't find the finish flaw that made it that way but you can get a great Heritage for cheap as a 2nd. You will need to b/c resale is tough and you will be discounting it to move.
Gitfiddler Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 All of my Heritage's are seconds. . . . . . The second I played them, I loved them!
SouthpawGuy Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 All of my Heritage's are seconds. . . . . . The second I played them, I loved them! Ha ha ! That joke is definitely a second !
Hfan Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 I had a second Heritage. Before that there was a first, Then came a third and fourth. Sorry, couldn't resist.
tsp17 Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 re-opener---not with a joke. what if the "blem" is in the finish, but the guitar is not marked with a "2"? how much would it drop in value with a visible finish issue in the top. i am considering one now.... not a terrible scar; a small but visible defect in the finish on the top.
BrianToth Posted May 20, 2011 Posted May 20, 2011 This thin Sweet 16 is a second. I'm pretty darned happy with it.
donnie Posted May 20, 2011 Posted May 20, 2011 I recently purchased a new Heritage second. Actually, it might have been a third! Problem is, it wasn't marked or priced as such, so back it went. Had it been priced as a second I likely would have been happy to keep it, but it wasn't. And the flaws were multiple, not just limited to one. In their defense, Heritage cheerfully agreed to re-do it-but I hate shipping guitars all over and who wants to be without it for 6 or 8 weeks when you paid for 1st quality? Guess I'm saying to me it's all about what you get for what you spend. I'd happily accept a second if it's priced accordingly.
DetroitBlues Posted May 20, 2011 Posted May 20, 2011 I thought Gibs used GC these days for their seconds and bargains. ......... No joke! You should of seen this Gibson LP Custom I played a month ago. Headstock veneer caused a seam in the paint that was clearly visable. Lots of finish marks from hanging on a wall, scratches, chips... And it sounded like POO! The electronics were all screwy! Worst $4000 guitar I've ever touched. I think a $600 Gibby SG Faded had better quality!
FredZepp Posted May 20, 2011 Posted May 20, 2011 This thin Sweet 16 is a second. I'm pretty darned happy with it. Man... that is awesome. I like the idea of a thin sweet 16, that seems like it would work wonderfully....
sksmith66 Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 stupid question of the day... where are they marked as second or bgn?
mars_hall Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 stupid question of the day... where are they marked as second or bgn? Right above the serial # on the back of the headstock
Halowords Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 re-opener---not with a joke. what if the "blem" is in the finish, but the guitar is not marked with a "2"? how much would it drop in value with a visible finish issue in the top. i am considering one now.... not a terrible scar; a small but visible defect in the finish on the top. It probably depends. Not terribly helpful, but the answer probably varies quite a bit based on how big/visible the defect was, and the individual perspective of whomever is deciding. Not to mention the demand of the guitar. I think a factory 2nd would drop down more. For me it is the uncertainty. Logically, the "2nd" (as opposed to a nice warm home in the fireplace) means it's something minor and that it is overall going to be just as good as a flawless one except for something small, presumably cosmetic. Thus, if you can't see it, or it seems insignificant. the "2nd" should be meaningless. However, I also tend to fear the worst and wonder what's wrong with it. If the finish seems fine, I would tend to wonder if it was something functional or annoying and hard/impossible to fix without major work because, otherwise, why not just do it at the factory and sell it for NOT hugely discounted prices. It sounds like generally it is some finishing flaw and they just take the hit to sell it and move on, rather than refinish (which I would think would be a bit cheaper, but apparently not). I also think the 2nd to some is like the Scarlett Letter. It's branded there. It will ALWAYS invite the question "what is that for?" Even if it is just a finishing flaw and you get it refinished, or a neck ding and you get it reshaped, it is always there. Granted, in the grand scheme of things it might not mean anything, but it will always be broadcasted when somebody looks at the guitar's headstock (where they might just not ever really notice whatever made it a second in the first place). Hence, I would imagine a non-factory-labeled-second that had a finish flaw (or whatever) would probably be seen as much more forgivable than a designated "2nd". Then again, people pay more for reliced guitars. Sometimes logic does not really come into this. No offense intended if you like relic type guitars, but it is kind of counter-intuitive on some level.
the jayce Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Id be weary of any seconds simply because it has a bad enough defect to be one. I have a hankering that the defects are hidden under the finishes because every second i have seen has been flawless in the finish, a finish flaw is very fixable so there structural things going on i suspect and stamping a 2 on it saves thier a#* when and if it rears it's ugly head. Theres a reason it's a second so dont buy one thinking its simply laquer issues..... it's somthing structural that they didnt feel confident would stand the test of time???
DetroitBlues Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 If you buy used, what's the difference? Warrenties are not upheld by many companies if you're not the original owner. Heritage might, but I wouldn't expect it. We all know that Heritages typically do not hold their value like the big three, so why not get a used custom shop guitar at a fraction of the mass produced price?
donnie Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Id be weary of any seconds simply because it has a bad enough defect to be one. I have a hankering that the defects are hidden under the finishes because every second i have seen has been flawless in the finish, a finish flaw is very fixable so there structural things going on i suspect and stamping a 2 on it saves thier a#* when and if it rears it's ugly head. Theres a reason it's a second so dont buy one thinking its simply laquer issues..... it's somthing structural that they didnt feel confident would stand the test of time??? I'd be very surprised and even more disappointed to find that Heritage would let any guitar hit the market if they knew it had structural issues. Cosmetic issues, yeah, my personal experience has been that even though they're better than they used to be they still don't always cast such a critical eye. It's just my experience, but it seems that every once in a while whoever does a final inspection takes the day off. I am reminded by those who know that this is exactly the kind of thing that sometimes happened with Gibson in the '50's and '60's, so maybe it's just just tradition, I don't know. But structural trouble they know about? I just don't see it...
Blunote Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 If you buy used, what's the difference? Warrenties are not upheld by many companies if you're not the original owner. Heritage might, but I wouldn't expect it. We all know that Heritages typically do not hold their value like the big three, so why not get a used custom shop guitar at a fraction of the mass produced price? Im not convinced that heritages don't hold their value as well as major brands. For instance, we often see ten & twenty year old guitars selling for more than they originally sold for when new. Today, a 3k list price guitar can be found new for $1,800-$2,100 and be sold a few years later for $1,100-$1,500. That just doesn't seem like a huge resale hit to me.
DetroitBlues Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Im not convinced that heritages don't hold their value as well as major brands. For instance, we often see ten & twenty year old guitars selling for more than they originally sold for when new. Today, a 3k list price guitar can be found new for $1,800-$2,100 and be sold a few years later for $1,100-$1,500. That just doesn't seem like a huge resale hit to me. But a $1500 Gibson LP still sells for $1100 or more, but a $2400 H-150 goes for $1250 to $1400....
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