GuitArtMan Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I have to say, I think most guitar manufactures build their guitars for the normal people and some of us (me especially) are fanatics about our guitars and want them perfect. I have never bought a perfect instrument new from any brand. It's part of the deal, the first thing you do is have the frets dressed and what ever else they need along with a proper set-up which also never comes from the manufacturer. I believe if they did do proper set-ups, they would catch the fret flaws. I just think it's part of the deal, get it the way you want when it's yours. You're shopping the wrong manufactures then. Tuttle - Perfect out of the box. Grosh - Perfect out of the box. Anderson - Perfect out of the box. PRS - Perfect out of the box. Lentz - Perfect out of the box. Tyler - Perfect out of the box (you just have to get past the heastock). Just to name a few.
sheetsofsound Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 You're shopping the wrong manufactures then. Tuttle - Perfect out of the box. Grosh - Perfect out of the box. Anderson - Perfect out of the box. PRS - Perfect out of the box. Lentz - Perfect out of the box. Tyler - Perfect out of the box (you just have to get past the heastock). Just to name a few. And I hate to say it but most of the GBrand guitars have great setups. Very few of them need to be planed and leveled and refretted unless they are 40 years old. I can't remember the last gibson I had that needed that. If heritage is putting the frets into the fingerboard prior to glueing and leveling the fingerboard that would explain things. And to me the Plek is a workaround. If the fingerboard is not level, that's where the problem should be addressed. Not in cutting away enough material from the frets that it levels out. Anyway, I love my heritage guitars. I hope they listen to feedback.
sheetsofsound Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 You're shopping the wrong manufactures then. Tuttle - Perfect out of the box. Grosh - Perfect out of the box. Anderson - Perfect out of the box. PRS - Perfect out of the box. Lentz - Perfect out of the box. Tyler - Perfect out of the box (you just have to get past the heastock). Just to name a few. And I hate to say it but most of the GBrand guitars have great setups. Very few of them need to be planed and leveled and refretted unless they are 40 years old. I can't remember the last gibson I had that needed that. If heritage is putting the frets into the fingerboard prior to glueing and leveling the fingerboard that would explain things. And to me the Plek is a workaround. If the fingerboard is not level, that's where the problem should be addressed. Not in cutting away enough material from the frets that it levels out. Anyway, I love my heritage guitars. I hope they listen to feedback.
DetroitBlues Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Most of those guitars listed out of the box being perfect are also custom shop like builders. They have to be perfect becasue they are offering their guitars for a price less than the custom shop big boys out there. I can't say the Gibson LP I had was perfect because I felt the action was way too high for my taste and it was "plek'd"...
NoNameBand Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 And I hate to say it but most of the GBrand guitars have great setups. Very few of them need to be planed and leveled and refretted unless they are 40 years old. I can't remember the last gibson I had that needed that. If heritage is putting the frets into the fingerboard prior to glueing and leveling the fingerboard that would explain things. And to me the Plek is a workaround. If the fingerboard is not level, that's where the problem should be addressed. Not in cutting away enough material from the frets that it levels out. Anyway, I love my heritage guitars. I hope they listen to feedback. Most of those guitars listed out of the box being perfect are also custom shop like builders. They have to be perfect becasue they are offering their guitars for a price less than the custom shop big boys out there. I can't say the Gibson LP I had was perfect because I felt the action was way too high for my taste and it was "plek'd"... I've got 5 Gibby's and none of them were satisfactory from the factory, not to my standards. Two of them were Custom Shop guitars.
kbp810 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 It's possible some of the off the shelf g-brands are closer to "perfect", because they are being made by this guy: (just sayin'!)
sheetsofsound Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 It's possible some of the off the shelf g-brands are closer to "perfect", because they are being made by this guy: (just sayin'!) well, making something by hand isn't ALWAYS the best way to go. Certainly carving a top should be done by hand but if cutting by hand is causing problems then the problem should be addressed.
GuitArtMan Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 And I hate to say it but most of the GBrand guitars have great setups. Very few of them need to be planed and leveled and refretted unless they are 40 years old. I can't remember the last gibson I had that needed that. If heritage is putting the frets into the fingerboard prior to glueing and leveling the fingerboard that would explain things. And to me the Plek is a workaround. If the fingerboard is not level, that's where the problem should be addressed. Not in cutting away enough material from the frets that it levels out. Anyway, I love my heritage guitars. I hope they listen to feedback. I've NEVER owned a Gibson that didn't need fret/nut work. Not even from the custom shop. At best the frets were level but not well crowned at all. All have had nut issues. As for the Plek I agree 100%. If it's being used as a bad aid (which I have the feeling is the case most of the time) then that's just the wrong way to do it imho. The prep work needs to be done BEFORE the frets go in. You need to start with a properly leveled and radisued finger board before the frets go in.
sheetsofsound Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 I've NEVER owned a Gibson that didn't need fret/nut work. Not even from the custom shop. At best the frets were level but not well crowned at all. All have had nut issues. As for the Plek I agree 100%. If it's being used as a bad aid (which I have the feeling is the case most of the time) then that's just the wrong way to do it imho. The prep work needs to be done BEFORE the frets go in. You need to start with a properly leveled and radisued finger board before the frets go in. the last 10 gibsons I bought were fine. Not *PERFECT* but not a single one needed a fret level or planing. By contrast, the last 3 heritage guitars I bought did. Coincidence? Doubtful. Again, I love my guitars and wouldn't dream of paying 2x-3x the price just to get a level fretboard. Also, many folks don't notice the difference unless you're a really hardcore single line jazz player. It's like the folks saying a rambler has the headroom to play with an organ trio. If you've ever done an organ trio gig, you'd know.
Genericmusic Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 You guys made me do it! All this talk of Plek - plek schmeck! My Michael Tuttle refretted H-535: I like you thinking!
Kuz Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 You're shopping the wrong manufactures then. Tuttle - Perfect out of the box. Grosh - Perfect out of the box. Anderson - Perfect out of the box. PRS - Perfect out of the box. Lentz - Perfect out of the box. Tyler - Perfect out of the box (you just have to get past the heastock). Just to name a few. Sorry, not trying to be an ass, but of all the guitars I have owned, my PRS DGT need the most work ( nut and fret work). So they aren't all perfect. Just my .02
Kuz Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 the last 10 gibsons I bought were fine. Not *PERFECT* but not a single one needed a fret level or planing. By contrast, the last 3 heritage guitars I bought did. Coincidence? Doubtful. Again, I love my guitars and wouldn't dream of paying 2x-3x the price just to get a level fretboard. Also, many folks don't notice the difference unless you're a really hardcore single line jazz player. It's like the folks saying a rambler has the headroom to play with an organ trio. If you've ever done an organ trio gig, you'd know. I guess this comment was directed at me. See the thing is I have played with a full band (including organ) and have had plenty of clean headroom. Also the nice thing about a Plek analysis is that it can measure fretboard radius, and fretboard condition/neck twist. All of my Heritages have been dead on. I am not trying to start anything with you, but to offer some counter opinions. Plek'ing my guitars have not been a waste of money for better playability and sustain. You are a fantastic player and I value your opinions, but they opinions and not necessarily facts. It may be a coincidence that you have had to have 3 fretboards plained and referred. Maybe it is coincidence that I have had 15 Heritages (including 4 arch tops) that have not needed this procedure. At least we can agree they sound great!
High Flying Bird Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 If heritage is putting the frets into the fingerboard prior to glueing and leveling the fingerboard that would explain things.
GuitArtMan Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Sorry, not trying to be an ass, but of all the guitars I have owned, my PRS DGT need the most work ( nut and fret work). So they aren't all perfect. Just my .02 Not being an ass at all. I like a healthy debate. My experience with PRS is mostly from the early days when it was still a small operation. Still, the few I have played recently (not that many as I just really don't care for his designs) have all played perfectly with impeccable set ups. I think it's amazing that he can keep the quality up where he has with how many guitars he produces. His output, I'm sure, is several times that of Heritage yet he still maintains very high level of consistency and quality control. Some don't seem to find flaw with Heritage either by choice, ignorance or shear brand loyalty. I call it like I see it in the hopes that they will welcome constructive criticism and use it to improve. There's no doubt the boys (and gals) in Kalamzoo make some of the finest guitars on the planet, but there is still room for improvement imho, I feel one area that could use improvement is fretwork. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
sheetsofsound Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 i agree with regarding prs fret work and necks being close to perfect and my repairman has said the same thing. I don't *EVER* remember anyone saying that had to have a prs neck planed/refretted
zguitar71 Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Here are some Photos of a Heritage factory fret job. tool marks on the 17-19th fret Bigger tool marks on the treble side 10th fret The 17th fret treble side Bass side, leftover piece from the original cutting of the fret Thick neck anyone? 1" at the 12th I do not think that the fret work seen in these pictures would come from Gibson or PRS or any of the small makers out there. The only way to get rid of some of the tool marks on these frets is to replace them, the marks are simply too deep to remove with a file. There is a bulge in the fret board from the 9-17th fret on the treble side and 12-17 on the bass side too. It is all fixable but should not exist on any higher end guitar from the factory. I think Heritage should step up there game a little and get this type of thing right. I understand why some people stay away from Heritage when this type of finish work exist. I am going to level the frets as best as I can for now and then do a refret and board level after the summer. I think I should let it acclimate, the guitar spent its life in the Midwest with high humidity and now is in Montana with summer humidity as low as 5% at times so I am sure it will settle a little.
sheetsofsound Posted April 2, 2011 Author Posted April 2, 2011 wow, that's really bad. None of my 3 were anything like that. The factory fretwork was fine. It was the fingerboard on all 3 that had dips and humps that caused the problem. Here are some Photos of a Heritage factory fret job. tool marks on the 17-19th fret Bigger tool marks on the treble side 10th fret The 17th fret treble side Bass side, leftover piece from the original cutting of the fret Thick neck anyone? 1" at the 12th I do not think that the fret work seen in these pictures would come from Gibson or PRS or any of the small makers out there. The only way to get rid of some of the tool marks on these frets is to replace them, the marks are simply too deep to remove with a file. There is a bulge in the fret board from the 9-17th fret on the treble side and 12-17 on the bass side too. It is all fixable but should not exist on any higher end guitar from the factory. I think Heritage should step up there game a little and get this type of thing right. I understand why some people stay away from Heritage when this type of finish work exist. I am going to level the frets as best as I can for now and then do a refret and board level after the summer. I think I should let it acclimate, the guitar spent its life in the Midwest with high humidity and now is in Montana with summer humidity as low as 5% at times so I am sure it will settle a little.
zguitar71 Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Yea it is kind of disgusting. Mostly because I tell people how great Heritage is and then they see that type of work and think I'm crazy. Heritage could make guitars that leave the factory with perfect necks and frets and charge $200-$300 more.Tthey would still be a great deal and not have to have the possibility of a tarnished reputation because of quality control.
sheetsofsound Posted April 2, 2011 Author Posted April 2, 2011 Yea it is kind of disgusting. Mostly because I tell people how great Heritage is and then they see that type of work and think I'm crazy. Heritage could make guitars that leave the factory with perfect necks and frets and charge $200-$300 more.Tthey would still be a great deal and not have to have the possibility of a tarnished reputation because of quality control. I've heard that they're improved now with the new owner. Have you checked out the new instruments? Also, I guess one trick is to buy through jay wolfe who apparently returns any instruments that are not made properly so you can be sure of getting a good one. If you buy used (like I did) you should probably figure on the fret level or refret. I was looking at a used sweet 16 recent and the dealer admitted to me it needed a planing. So, folks can say they're no worse than Gibson but it's just not true. I think they're great guitar and I'm one who believes that an instrument is worth working with to make right but I agree with your sentiment.
DetroitBlues Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 There is no way that came from the factory like that. Someone exposed the fretboard to moisture and tried to fix it crudely with a file.
Jazzpunk Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Here are some Photos of a Heritage factory fret job. I've owned four Heritage guitars and I've never seen anything like that!
GuitArtMan Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 I've owned four Heritage guitars and I've never seen anything like that! I spoiled ya with that first one. Well, Michael Tuttle spoiled ya.
Jazzpunk Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 I spoiled ya with that first one. Well, Michael Tuttle spoiled ya. I think you miss those frets more than the guitar lol. Michael's work is amazing no doubt!
Kuz Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Again, I am not going to make any assumptions. I believe Zguitar if that was a new guitar, if it was used then who knows who worked on the guitar. I am VERY picky about my guitars and I have never seen anything close to that on the 15 or so Heritages I own. If that was from a new Heritage Zguitar, then I would forward those pics to Vince at Heritage. I have ordered half my guitars from Wolfe and the other half from another dealer and had great luck. I do very much agree that post 2007 the quality control has increase greatly under Vince's run with the company. But again, if you bought that guitar new, sen the pics to them.
GuitArtMan Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 I think you miss those frets more than the guitar lol. Michael's work is amazing no doubt! Don't worry - I've got plenty other guitars with Michael's fretwork on 'em - and Tom Anderson's and Don Grosh's to boot!
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