Golden Eagle Upgrades?

[Steiner]

i've never had a problem once they're fully under pressure. It's just during the "stringing up" process they they tend to pop out. I find that if I hold the ball end in with one hand while tuning the string up to pitch it holds ok.

 

I've owned 5 H tailpiece guitars; still have 3. I've got to agree with Kuz on this one. Never had any problem nor do I see the instability of which you speak. No other HOC member has discussed such a problem. Albeit a biased population, it appears you are significantly outside the norm with your troubles. One might consider it bad ediquite to whitewash one's misfortune across an entire product line.

 

Another hearty welcome to the GE club drHoward

[Gitfiddler]

Since the original post was about UPGRADING Golden Eagles, it seems appropriate to mention or recommend a tailpiece bail replacement IF that is what the owner of these fine archtops wants. There are some beautiful tailpieces out there. Why not customize or upgrade an already great artop with one if that suits your taste?

 

I've never had a problem with mine, but am extremely careful when changing strings with any bail tailpiece.

 

I put a polishing cloth directly underneath the area where the strings attach and could potentially pop out during string changes. So far I have zero divots in my archtops due to strings popping out as mentioned.

 

As for other GE upgrades, a tone pot (where there is only a volume pot) is a good one. Also, I like the under pickguard or stealth controls for a clean look. Pickup mods have already been mentioned, and like many others, I prefer the custom wound Kent Armstrong pafs. They are transparent and seem to accurately capture the true tone of a solid wood arcthtop such as the Golden Eagle.

 

Hope this helps.

[FredZepp]

Ahh, drHoward's Golden Eagle.. a classic Heritage archtop beauty...

 

[Kuz]

Since the original post was about UPGRADING Golden Eagles, it seems appropriate to mention or recommend a tailpiece bail replacement IF that is what the owner of these fine archtops wants. There are some beautiful tailpieces out there. Why not customize or upgrade an already great artop with one if that suits your taste?

 

I've never had a problem with mine, but am extremely careful when changing strings with any bail tailpiece.

 

I put a polishing cloth directly underneath the area where the strings attach and could potentially pop out during string changes. So far I have zero divots in my archtops due to strings popping out as mentioned.

As for other GE upgrades, a tone pot (where there is only a volume pot) is a good one. Also, I like the under pickguard or stealth controls for a clean look. Pickup mods have already been mentioned, and like many others, I prefer the custom wound Kent Armstrong pafs. They are transparent and seem to accurately capture the true tone of a solid wood arcthtop such as the Golden Eagle.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Yep, this is ALWAYS a good idea with any trapeze tailpiece and I do exactly the same thing!!

[ingeneri]

Isn't this all a bit academic since they don't even make the H-tailpiece anymore?

 

I've had the same problem Jack is describing on both the H tailpiece on my Super Eagle and the trapeze on my 1990 575. I like the cloth idea, pretty intuitive and something I should have thought of before.

 

The new trapeze tailpieces on the 525, 575, and Groovemaster function differently and all work fine. I've never used the finger tailpiece they're now using on the GE, SE, Kenny Burrell, Sweet 16 etc... Johnny Smith liked 'em and he was a very picky guy about any guitar with his name on it.

 

Personally, I'd like them to bring back the old tailpieces with the wood in the middle with the model name printed on them. They kinda looked alot like the Tal Farlow and just fit that classic Heritage vibe the best.

[drHoward]

FWIW, Kent Armstrong will take your #3 pickup, and replace the guts with his floating PAF. No individual screws per string, but very reasonable, and you don't have to mod the pickguard, as I think you do on the replacement from Archtop dot com. As long as he had the pickguard (no need to send anything but the pickup and the guard), I had him add a tone control.

 

Also, had a new bone nut cut.

 

 

@morg21279: I attempted to contact Kent Armstrong (through WD Parts) and was informed they don't do the type of replacement you mention.

They would only work on a replacement pickguard...

 

So, my thoughts are now Benedetto or Kent Armstrong as a suitable replacement

and then to figure out if it's doable, as the stock #3 seems to be permanently attached to the pickguard..

Adding a tone control would be fairly straight-forward..

Maybe down the line, I may consider a finger tailpiece, if I should stumble upon one that's reasonably priced..

Everyone's comments are highly appreciated!!

Cheers!!

[Kuz]

@morg21279: I attempted to contact Kent Armstrong (through WD Parts) and was informed they don't do the type of replacement you mention.

They would only work on a replacement pickguard...

 

So, my thoughts are now Benedetto or Kent Armstrong as a suitable replacement

and then to figure out if it's doable, as the stock #3 seems to be permanently attached to the pickguard..

Adding a tone control would be fairly straight-forward..

Maybe down the line, I may consider a finger tailpiece, if I should stumble upon one that's reasonably priced..

Everyone's comments are highly appreciated!!

Cheers!!

 

If you take off the pickguard, the floater will just unplug. It is not permanently attached.

[sheetsofsound]

Yep, this is ALWAYS a good idea with any trapeze tailpiece and I do exactly the same thing!!

 

I've never had to do this on any guitar except the heritage old style and "H" tailpieces. I replaced the tailpieces on 2 of my heritage guitars with Eastman tailpieces and it hooks the string in a way that it's not possible for it to come loose.

 

But, heritage stopped making these tailpieces anyway. They are now using an off-the-shelf stew-mac tailpiece.

 

Here's my eagle with a replacement guard and tailpiece. Heritage should make this standard IMO.

 

[ingeneri]

I like that Heritage doesn't follow all the other lemmings in adopting the quasi-Benedetto/D'aquisto ebony tailpiece. The metal ones have a much stronger connection to what the company is about. Probably the same reason Mark Campellone uses tailpieces with his own art deco design instead of the same old same old ebony.

 

The new tailpiece design on my 525 (and the 575, 530, and 550) are set up differently and don't have any problems.

 

I haven't tried the new fingers tailpieces being featured on the Eagles and Sweet 16. They look nice and are the same as on the old Johnny Smiths and Gibson Le Grandes.

 

But, again, this style is my favorite:

 

 

And yeah, I know it's functionally the same as the H. But these just look so old school, and a little design tweaking would eliminate any of the old problems with the former model.

[sheetsofsound]

The benedetto tailpieces are flawed IMO. Having a tailpiece that wraps around the endpin is just a hideous idea. Try doing a drop tuning with one of those tailpieces. Dropping the tuning throws the other strings out of tune because the tailpiece moves slightly...

 

Having said that, I've found that the heritage tailpieces *do* flex. When you do drop tunings (low string to D or A), the other strings go out of tune. This does not happen on the brass/ebony eastman tailpiece which is more substantial and does not flex.

 

Also, on 2 of my heritage guitars (one an H tailpiece, the other like the one pictured above), the center part came out. If you notice in my Sweet 16 demo, there is no "H" in the tailpiece. I was going to glue it back on but decided to replace it with an eastman tailpiece.

[Gitfiddler]

SheetsofSound~ I hear and understand your tailpiece concerns. You are obviously one who seeks the highest level of perfection in your instruments, and can back it up with your amazing playing skills. I have never had an issue with Heritage's tailpiece design, but I don't gig with my archtops. They are my pampered mistresses who pleasure me mostly at home. Also, they remain in standard tuning.

 

That said, if you ever fall out of love with your lovely blonde Eagle drop me a pm.

 

Tim

[Kuz]

Here is an interesting read on the differences in tone of metal vs wood for archtop tailpieces.

 

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/topic/108820

 

I like what I hear currently with my Heritage guitars, I am leaving them as is, but it is an option.

[sheetsofsound]

Here is an interesting read on the differences in tone of metal vs wood for archtop tailpieces.

 

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/topic/108820

 

I like what I hear currently with my Heritage guitars, I am leaving them as is, but it is an option.

 

Some of that may be true. However, I wouldn't use a straight ebony tailpiece. Too many problems from wear with the smaller ball ends that guitar strings have. Plus, there's the string grounding issue. A good which is what eastman uses is a metal tailpiece with the ebony being decorative. The L5 tailpiece is my favorite. No flex and very classy. I heard no difference in tone between the ebony/brass tailpiece and the stock tailpiece on my heritage guitars.

[drHoward]

Dr. Howard

 

I recently put a Benedetto floater and a tone control on my Golden Eagle. I had owned a Fratello and a Golden Eagle previously and decided the tonal differences were so minor I could take this route and have a great acoustic archtop without spending $10,000. Happily, I think it worked out great! My GE is the custom orange burst finish. I had my tech make an traditional Gibson shape ebony pickguard for it, when he installed the Benedetto pickup. I think it is prettier than an Benedetto and the sound is just as good. Good luck with yours. (P.S. I'll post a pic here soon. Just recently joined.)

 

 

@ Rob1250: Gorgeous axe! Did you add the finger tailpiece? Could you describe the tone of the Benedetto floater?

Have you had any experience with Kent Armstrong's to compare?

Cheers!

 

Hb

[sheetsofsound]

@ Rob1250: Gorgeous axe! Did you add the finger tailpiece? Could you describe the tone of the Benedetto floater?

Have you had any experience with Kent Armstrong's to compare?

Cheers!

 

Hb

 

i've tried both. The benedetto is basically a duncan pickup with the custom cover and tab added. The KA is a much nicer pickup and captures more of the acoustic sound of the instrument. I think it's a good compromise between a johnny smith tone and a dearmond...

[morg21279]

The WDs are Korean, made under Kent's name - pretty awful pickups. You need to talk to Kent directly - I don't have a number handy, but google him in New Hampshiree (Andover, I think).

[sheetsofsound]

The WDs are Korean, made under Kent's name - pretty awful pickups. You need to talk to Kent directly - I don't have a number handy, but google him in New Hampshiree (Andover, I think).

 

i wouldn't say awful at all but I wouldn't put one on a guitar like a heritage. spend the extra dough and get one from KA directly.

[Rob1250]

@ Rob1250: Gorgeous axe! Did you add the finger tailpiece? Could you describe the tone of the Benedetto floater?

Have you had any experience with Kent Armstrong's to compare?

Cheers!

 

Hb

Thanks. The fingers tailpiece was original to the guitar. The Benedetto pickup tone is what I was looking for. Though in my opinion, I could not have gotten the soft warmth without the tone pot added. I've been playing through a Pod2/Polytone BTW. The tone control greatly expands the amplified sound range of the GE far beyond the Fratello I owned. As most of them, it had just the volume control. I don't have any experience with the Armstrong pickups. I have heard as others have noted, you need to make sure you go with the real thing...no imports, if you go that direction.

 

Best Regards

[drHoward]

More great insights! Point of clarification for you guys:

 

@Rob1250 - What is "The Benedetto pickup tone"??

 

@sheetsofsound - From your description, I may be inclined to go for a Kent Armstrong.. When you say that the Benedetto is basically a SD, how do you mean that?

I have used many SD pickups over the years and have had great success with them... Just curious what you mean.

 

Thanks you guys!!

 

Hb

[sheetsofsound]

More great insights! Point of clarification for you guys:

 

@Rob1250 - What is "The Benedetto pickup tone"??

 

@sheetsofsound - From your description, I may be inclined to go for a Kent Armstrong.. When you say that the Benedetto is basically a SD, how do you mean that?

I have used many SD pickups over the years and have had great success with them... Just curious what you mean.

 

Thanks you guys!!

 

Hb

 

I just mean that the benedetto is not a hand-wound pickup. I believe it's just a duncan jazz with a different cover. With the KA you're getting a hand-wound pickup...

[bebove64]

I just mean that the benedetto is not a hand-wound pickup. I believe it's just a duncan jazz with a different cover. With the KA you're getting a hand-wound pickup...

You're right Jack ,Benedetto pups are handmade in SD's Santa Barbara, CA workshop.

http://benedettopickups.com/

[Rob1250]

More great insights! Point of clarification for you guys:

 

@Rob1250 - What is "The Benedetto pickup tone"??

 

@sheetsofsound - From your description, I may be inclined to go for a Kent Armstrong.. When you say that the Benedetto is basically a SD, how do you mean that?

I have used many SD pickups over the years and have had great success with them... Just curious what you mean.

 

Thanks you guys!!

 

Hb

Hi Doc,

 

It is impossible for me to describe the tone for you or anyone else. Its all to subjective. I'll tell you that for me the softest,smoothest,most mellow electric jazz guitar tone I ever produced was from a Gibson Super 4000. That was from a floating pickup. In my opinion a routed pickup USUALLY produces a more mellow tone. Because the guitar is not as much of an acoustic instrument. The sound is not bounced off the top as much which adds the acoustic crispness. Maybe I'm wrong but thats what my experience tells me. So I was surprised on the 4000. So much so, that I attempted to get one of those pickups from Gibson. I was/am a Gibson Custom Direct member. They refused to make one for me based on that pickup being tied to and limited by the endorsement somehow, which was just after Chet's death as best I can recall. They probably knew the endorsement was moving to Gretsch. So I spent the time since then trying to get that tone in another configuration. I have come very close. I suspect that the Benedetto/seymour D pickups are wound just like the Armstrong pickups are. I think hand wound really denotes hand turned on a winder. Maybe someone else can confirm that? I did find this in a site "Benedettopickups"

 

I owned a Japanese DA with an armstrong. Not sure of pickup origin. It had tone pot. My GE with the Benedetto ...much nicer sound TO ME.

 

Are the Benedetto Pickups handmade?

 

Yes. Winding is done with a machine - the same way it is done in a one-man shop. However, everything else, including encasing the wound coil in the casting material, is entirely done by hand. There is great consistency with our procedures so you are guaranteed to have a quality jazz pickup that the Benedetto name implies.

 

Bob Benedetto obviously like the Duncans and he makes the best acoustic archtops I've seen/played heard. Never heard a Monteleone. Some say he is even better? So thats the best I can do. Half the fun is in the research. Hope anyone reading this finds their personal perfect tone!

[cwthompson]

Just my 2 cents worth but I love the "H" tailpiece on my H575. I think it looks awesome.