Nashville experience with my 150

[plexirocker 68]

Say, Plexi - what was the reaction of the people in the shops when they found out your Heritage was so much better? Or didn't they listen in when you compared?

 

Nothing as in nothing, dead silence, they did all hear it though

 

 

One of the most amazing things is that very few people know anything about Heritages. When I asked the Gruhn guys to let me play the guitars I wanted a comparison with nobody in the joint acted like they've ever heard of them. Amazing to me when you're supposed to be the "in the know" guys

 

 

I wonder what the people on the LPF would say??

 

That would be probally be ugly. Funny thing is I'm a LPF guy to. I call it like I see it. Guitars to me are tools, not a logo love fest. Many people that make statements deemed as truth have never a/b'd stuff in direct comparison. I didn't wanted to post there,  I'd be ridden out of town, for what, telling the truth.

 

There's just simply way too much hype and BS in the guitar world

 

plexi

 

 

 

 

[Thundersteel]

I know what you mean. I'm also a member of the LP Forum, as well as the Hamer Forum, The Gear Page, Harmony Central, etc.

 

Everyone has their own opinion!

[High Flying Bird]

I know what you mean. I'm also a member of the LP Forum, as well as the Hamer Forum, The Gear Page, Harmony Central, etc.

 

Swine!

We were louder than the Sportspage again tonight, T.  :wink:

 

Plexi, I was in the Gibson Store in Nashville and they had no clue what a Heritage was.  I wasn't really surprised but, at Gruhn's? 

[Thundersteel]

Plexi, I was in the Gibson Store in Nashville and they had no clue what a Heritage was.  I wasn't really surprised but, at Gruhn's?

 

Whenever I'm in a music store, and I see someone looking at Gibsons, I tell them the Heritage story. Then, they put the Gibson back on the wall and generally say they need to check them out!

[plexirocker 68]

I was shocked at the Gruhns lack of Heritage knowledge also. I'm sure that Mr. George Gruhn knows the deal but the employees on the floor hadn't a clue. George is a nice fella, back before the "net" and the bay started I used to buy guitars around the area all the time and hump down to Gruhns and sell off. I wish I had about 50 of those back ;D He was always fair to me. The very first trip to Gruhns I remember that he had a "59 and 60 "Burst" hanging on the wall and anyone could just pick them up and play them, just like walking into the local music store. Back then you could get them between 7,500 and 10,000

 

It was very clear even then that those guitars were very resonant and toneful and did something different over the current models. There's light years more knowledge on these guitars now compared to then, for a long time the accepted reasoning for their tone was they were just old and the wood aged. You don't really hear that reasoning so much anymore. I haven't seen him in the store for several years now, I always just miss him. Still a fun place to go but he has much less prime inventory compared to 20 years ago.

 

 

I also have friends now starting to look at Heritage and are on the search. Great guitars and to me the most "correct" vintage toned  modern made guitars.

 

I have a interesting tid bit to add to my trip. When I was in the Gibson showcase store a fella walks in with a early 60's les paul/sg, you know the real deal les paul/sg. He brings it to the counter and wants someone to look at it, it needs a neck repair. Sure enough snapped at the neck joint. So I am mingling right behind the dude 'cause I had to hear this conversation ;D He wants it to be playable and the sales dude tells the guy nope it's done but I CAN SELL YOU A HISTORIC ONE JUST LIKE IT!

 

So me being me I jumped in the middle,  I wasn't gonna let this sales guy jerk this dude around. So I proceeded to tell this man that that guitar was worth lots of money. The headstock break and location was very doable by competent luthiers and even if he parted the guitar out it's worth thousands. I directed him to the local Gruhns for appraisel and repair advice and told to him hang on to it and check out all his options. He left the store,  I was happy to help the guy out. I'm pretty sure the sales guy doesn't like me though ;D

 

plexi

[Kazwell]

So me being me I jumped in the middle,  I wasn't gonna let this sales guy jerk this dude around. So I proceeded to tell this man that that guitar was worth lots of money. The headstock break and location was very doable by competent luthiers and even if he parted the guitar out it's worth thousands. I directed him to the local Gruhns for appraisel and repair advice and told to him hang on to it and check out all his options. He left the store,  I was happy to help the guy out. I'm pretty sure the sales guy doesn't like me though

 

That sales guy sounds like a complete  >. I wonder if it possible to be THAT evil, or was he also a bit stupid. I guess it all depends on what would have happened had you not intervined. Could you imagine if the guy actually went ahead and bought the historic. What would happen then. If the sales guy was evil, he would have said, "You might as well leave it here, we'll get rid of it for you" (as if it were an old pair of shoes you just replaced in a shoe store), and then he turns around and repairs it and puts it up on the wall to resell, or sells it off on E-Bay. OR if he was completely stupid, he would simply take it out to the dumpster all the time thinking, "Good thing I sold him a new one, who would want THIS piece of junk"

 

Either way, the guy had no right to be behind that counter. It's a good thing you were there intervine. I wouldn't have blamed you if you contact the owner of that store and threatened to contact the BBB.

[JohnCovach]

This is a great thread.  Most of us are very enthusiastic about Heritage guitars--that's why we're here!  But don't forget that our Heritage guys were not only part of making some great guitars at Gibson in the late 50s, but many of them also worked there at some point during the 70s and 80s, when the guitars are not so renowned for their excellence.

 

My guess is that the break with Gibson allowed the Heritage founders to return to some better building practices, but also freed them to buy their own wood.  Now, why Gibson can't seem to buy the same wood, or why they don't understand the ways that's important, are questions I can't really answer--unless it has to do with saving money while building extravagantly expensive guitars, hmmm . . .

[yoslate]

I was shocked at the Gruhns lack of Heritage knowledge also. I'm sure that Mr. George Gruhn knows the deal but the employees on the floor hadn't a clue. The very first trip to Gruhns I remember that he had a "59 and 60 "Burst" hanging on the wall and anyone could just pick them up and play them, just like walking into the local music store. Back then you could get them between 7,500 and 10,000

 

plexi

 

Thanks, plexi, for the trip down memory lane!  Hadn't thought about it in a while, but my first trip to Gruhn's was in the early seventies, to his original shop, I think it was on Broadway, in Nashville.  Funky, dark, marvelous little hole in the wall!  George and, I think, one other guy in there; they seemed preoccupied, busy, but they were cordial.  They just let me pull stuff off of the wall and go into a tiny, musty room, the walls of which were lined with cardboard egg crates, one ratty little armless chair, one or two old Fender tweed amps in there, I couldn't tell you what they were.  Spent the better part of the morning, threatening to wear out my welcome, but they just left me alone.  Played four or five '58, '59, '60 burst Pauls, couple of mid-'50's goldtops, and a couple of old Tele's.  I think the Pauls were going for around a grand...way out of reach for me, at the time.  Hadn't been back until the late '90's, to the new shop.  They still had some nice vintage pieces on the wall, and were happy for me to yank stuff down to test drive it, but they had an awful lot of unremarkable shiny new stuff in there, too.  Don't begrudge George his success, and what comes with it, a bit.  But I'm very glad for the memory of my first trip to that old shop!                  8)

[Gitfiddler]

Ah, the 70's!  If we had only had the relatively small cash to buy some of those lovely toys (guitars, muscle cars, real estate,...etc.)

 

Ya think there might be some '70-ish' type bargains on used Heritage IF Gruhns ever gets some in their shop since they do not seem to know what they are...yet?  Hmmmm! 

[Spectrum13]

While I always appreciate confirmmation that my personal preference and purchase of what I believe to be the closest recreations of the 57-60 LPs (with Seth Lovers), the ethics of certain industry personnel can be somewhat annoying. Keeping the Heritage name off public radar does increase it's cult status but I can't consider as believable music store employees never having heard of Heritage. I have been to Gruhns and would rate their staff as extremely knowledgeable as concerns current and vintage instruments.

 

  When purposely keeping customers uninformed with the intent to sell what brands are available might be business as usual, it has a cost. When WC Fields said never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump, he was being a comedian. When better marketing replaces better products and missinformation creates common wisdom, our society losses a part of it's soul. Just like when the profession of journalism was replaced by the "business of news" the truth keeps getting harder to find.       

[cook]

While I can't attest to the knowledge base of Gruhn's employees, George Gruhn himself is aware of Heritage.  I recall him answering a question about them in his Vintage Guitar Magazine column. 

[Andy R]

George was a Heritage dealer for several years. The end came when he insisted that they change their headstock, and they wouldn't do it. They said that they had already established a brand identity. George stubbornly dropped the line!

[Gitfiddler]

George was a Heritage dealer for several years. The end came when he insisted that they change their headstock, and they wouldn't do it. They said that they had already established a brand identity. George stubbornly dropped the line!

 

Man, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your headstock! 

[SouthpawGuy]

George was a Heritage dealer for several years. The end came when he insisted that they change their headstock, and they wouldn't do it. They said that they had already established a brand identity. George stubbornly dropped the line!

 

Classic case of the tail trying to wag the dog !

[Kazwell]

George was a Heritage dealer for several years. The end came when he insisted that they change their headstock, and they wouldn't do it. They said that they had already established a brand identity. George stubbornly dropped the line!

 

Brand identity for who? Everyone that sees that headstock for the first time thinks "Hamer" 

[111518]

For what it's worth, I've heard a slightly different version of this story from someone who knows Gruhn pretty well.  According to this version, Gruhn was bothered less by the shape than by the fact that the peak on the headstock is inconsistent from guitar to guitar. Sometimes it's centered with equal curves on each side, sometimes it isn't.  Seems to be cut freehand.  Gruhn thought the inconsistency, which was readily apparent when he had several hung side by side in his shop, looked like sloppy workmanship that could be easily corrected, and it bugged him.  Bugged him even more that when GEORGE GRUHN pointed it out to Heritage they wouldn't fix it. 

 

He's clearly a smart guy, and has earned his reputation as an authority on guitars, but "humility" is not among the adjectives even his friends use to describe Gruhn.  (I've never met him, but I know he went to Duke ... native North Carolinians like myself expect arrogance out of Dukies.)

 

Interesting, though, that before I found HOC, this was the complaint I'd heard about the Heritage headstock --the inconsistency, not the shape.  I don't think I've heard anyone here comment on the lack of uniformity and/or the asymmetry.  Maybe we Heritage guys just appreciate hand work ... either that, or we can't see straight. 

[Peter Cl]

I put a good couple of knuckle raps on the back right below where the neck meets the body, the guitar facing away . I put my ear real close but not on the body itself and you can hear the overtones in the wood. This takes pickups out of play. The 150 and the vintage pauls had the same tonality where the historics were mostly dead and "thumpy"

 

That's just wood to wood testing without paf's or other things in play.

 

All these tonal charachters were there UNPLUGGED. Plugging them in makes pups, caps ,wire, pots in play!! That can all be changed!

 

Priceless !!

[Andy R]

Not to argue, but George told me the story himself. He told me that it was the straight sides he didn't like- he wanted them contoured like on some other brand.

[111518]

Andy R:

No argument from me ...I took pains in my post to make clear I was reporting a second hand story, and that I've never met Gruhn.  The reason I posted was not to make a claim of "truth" but because I find it interesting that this episode --Gruhn dropping Heritage-- has entered guitar folklore in different ways, with different implications for Heritage and for Gruhn.  (Ok, so it was also a chance to get in a dig against a self-important Dookie ... but you probably have to be from NC to understand that admittedly less-than-noble motivation.)

 

As Cook mentioned, Guhn recently responded to a question about Heritage in his Q&A column in Vintage Guitar.  I can't seem to put my hands on it, but when I do, I'll post it, since this has come up.

[Dick Seacup]

Brand identity for who? Everyone that sees that headstock for the first time thinks "Hamer" 

 

Not if they're a mandolin player from waaaaay back. 

[cook]

I'll look through my back issues also for the column.  The question was something about the collectability of Heritage guitars.  Gruhn gave a favorable response about the quality, but doesn't foresee them being rapidly appreciating.  Another time someone asked Zac in his column about trying to fade the cherry back of his Heritage to better match the faded front of his vintage sunburst.

 

Last night I actually took a close look at my guitar's headstock.  The tip wasn't completely symmetrical, but I never noticed it before!  Thanks a lot guys!  Just kidding, I don't care at all.  It's just another one of the nice little signs that my axe is not made by a robot.

[Andy R]

To me, the headstock is reminiscent of 80's Aria "Pro II" guitars. I'll admit that I didn't like it for a long time, but I like it a lot now.

[Kazwell]

To me, the headstock is reminiscent of 80's Aria "Pro II" guitars. I'll admit that I didn't like it for a long time, but I like it a lot now.

 

ditto

[paul144]

my 150 goldtop is so loud acoustically that I woke up my 22 year old daughter while sleeping in her room with her door closed. She came out and said "Dad. please turn that down, I'm taking a nap". She looked puzzled when I said its not even plugged in!! I was laying down some tracks on my Boss digital recorder using headphones!!

 

I used it at a gig this past Fri night, really had a nice vocal tone to the bridge pickup with some overdrive on it. Those HRWs are great!

[Kazwell]

I was laying down some tracks on my Boss digital recorder using headphones

 

I got up the other night and had a wav file I was mastering playing playing through my headphones-at a somewhat conservative volume. I could hear those things blaring halfway up the stairs. Are you using closed or open headphones? If they are open, sometimes the volume really bleeds out of those things.