Daydreaming...

[Hfan]

And here's his response,

"I totally understand how you feel. That said, it's not finished yet.

So either I finish it, or I don't. That choice is yours. There's not

much further to go on it, so I'd just have me finish it, but it you

want to take it elsewhere, that's your right. I move slow because I

want to be careful and get good results. I have realized after

starting yours, and another finish repair that I took on, that I need

to double my estimates on time, and have begun doing so. I do

understand your frustration. I would have liked to have finished your

guitar a month ago, but it just didn't happen. So here we are. You

let me know how you'd like to proceed, and under what terms you would

feel that your patience has been compensated."

 

So what should I say now?

 

I would go there yesterday in person unannounced, ask to see the guitar (when have you seen it in person last?), if you feel good about it and what progress is done, try to nail him down to a real estimate of time, you've invested a long time already. if it is a few more weeks maybe you should wait. If it is not done by then you should go there unannounced (I wouldn't phone or write) again and take it back.Or if when you go there and you don't like the progress of how many months of work, take it back now. Some members here who know about finishing can give you what to look for better than me. He seems sincere in his response but talk is cheap. Maybe he hasn't done many refinishes? If it is still there by PSP, we can send a contingent, is he on my way from NJ? We could go together. Good luck, I feel your pain. Our guitars are more than just hunks of wood and metal to us.

[DetroitBlues]

I appreciate the support. I guess I can't sing the blues without something to sing about...

[Halowords]

So what should I say now?

 

I would pin him to a firm date. At this point, he pretty much has to know how much time is left on it. If said end date as well as any agreed-upon compensation for the delay is acceptable, I would let him finish it. He has gotten this far, and you are closer to the end than the beginning or middle, right? I WOULD hold him to that date though. If the end date is not acceptable, he is unsure, or you just do not feel good about it, I would probably try and find somebody else with a long track record of high-quality and timely refinishes to complete the job in a more prompt time. The most obvious pit fall is that at this point finding somebody who can do it might end up making this take longer (i.e. how long to find the right guy to finish this, they might not be able to get to it for a few weeks, etc., etc.).

 

Your luthier's letter seems a bit strange. First, he did not exactly give you reassurance about a firm date it would be done by. Second, it is a bit unapologetic. As for his estimate being so far off, it could be an honest mistake, and he has been a good service for years so you could (and did) cut him some slack. To an extent. Consequently, he totally botched the timeline and you have been a good, loyal customer for years. He could at least be a bit more penitent considering he clearly failed the benchmarks set, and has given you false reassurances. He should also set a firm deadline (for himself as well as you), and realize there is a difference between going slow to do a good job and doing a poor job of meeting the deadlines set for customers as well as adapting when things go wrong. The job has gone on ~3x the estimated timeline. It is hard to find a good excuse for that.

 

In short, I would talk to the guy, try to get a firm date and compensation, then hold him to it as much as possible. That could be you are a bit flexible if he is a day or two off because at this point anything else would just delay it even further, or it could be you set a date for picking it up and show up for it finished or not. If you do agree upon a date and plan to pick it up that day, I would make it clear that it is your intention to pick it up regardless. Otherwise, what is the point? I would also have a hard time going back to him for a refinish ever again. He seems to need to revamp his work shop to be able to do these in a timely manner, or simply not do them.

[Hfan]

I agree the guy isn't very apologetic and should be. I also scratched my head a little over the "under what terms you would feel that your patience has been compensated."part of his response. Have you seen your guitar anytime recently?

 

I've had problems with Luthiers such as surliness and much longer than promised waits. If I ever move it will be near a good luthier or two, to hell with the school system..

[tbonesullivan]

Oh yeah, this is the tiny ding in Joe's guitar caused by a straplock accident. (This is why none of us use them) This butcher/luthier lifted the logo off the headstock and then did a 80% job of correcting it.

why was he even near the logo? That chip could have easily been steamed out, and then built up using superglue before putting on a nitro top coat. Or maybe even putty and then simulated wood grain on the side.

 

double U

T

F

[DetroitBlues]

I would pin him to a firm date. At this point, he pretty much has to know how much time is left on it. If said end date as well as any agreed-upon compensation for the delay is acceptable, I would let him finish it. He has gotten this far, and you are closer to the end than the beginning or middle, right? I WOULD hold him to that date though. If the end date is not acceptable, he is unsure, or you just do not feel good about it, I would probably try and find somebody else with a long track record of high-quality and timely refinishes to complete the job in a more prompt time. The most obvious pit fall is that at this point finding somebody who can do it might end up making this take longer (i.e. how long to find the right guy to finish this, they might not be able to get to it for a few weeks, etc., etc.).

 

Your luthier's letter seems a bit strange. First, he did not exactly give you reassurance about a firm date it would be done by. Second, it is a bit unapologetic. As for his estimate being so far off, it could be an honest mistake, and he has been a good service for years so you could (and did) cut him some slack. To an extent. Consequently, he totally botched the timeline and you have been a good, loyal customer for years. He could at least be a bit more penitent considering he clearly failed the benchmarks set, and has given you false reassurances. He should also set a firm deadline (for himself as well as you), and realize there is a difference between going slow to do a good job and doing a poor job of meeting the deadlines set for customers as well as adapting when things go wrong. The job has gone on ~3x the estimated timeline. It is hard to find a good excuse for that.

 

In short, I would talk to the guy, try to get a firm date and compensation, then hold him to it as much as possible. That could be you are a bit flexible if he is a day or two off because at this point anything else would just delay it even further, or it could be you set a date for picking it up and show up for it finished or not. If you do agree upon a date and plan to pick it up that day, I would make it clear that it is your intention to pick it up regardless. Otherwise, what is the point? I would also have a hard time going back to him for a refinish ever again. He seems to need to revamp his work shop to be able to do these in a timely manner, or simply not do them.

 

I will not go back to him for refinish work. Not of this nature anyway. For fretwork, electronics, nut, and other miscellanous work, I'll use him. Watching the post on KBP810's new H-157 build, I noticed how well ventilated the shop is and my guy's shop is no where near what it should be for ventilation. Now he does have the space to set up a seperate isolated area for painting, he just hasn't done it yet.

[Halowords]

I will not go back to him for refinish work. Not of this nature anyway. For fretwork, electronics, nut, and other miscellanous work, I'll use him.

 

Gotcha. In this case, I would stick with him for the stuff mentioned, and NOT refinish work, however as much as it chafes since you know you are going to be going back to him even though you are the customer, maintaining a little diplomacy on your part could not hurt.

 

Best of luck though. Hopefully you can remain firm-yet-civil (which I think you did a nice job of), and he is able to step on the gas a little. You really have handled this about as well as could be imagined, in my opinion.

[big bob]

I will not go back to him for refinish work. Not of this nature anyway. For fretwork, electronics, nut, and other miscellanous work, I'll use him. Watching the post on KBP810's new H-157 build, I noticed how well ventilated the shop is and my guy's shop is no where near what it should be for ventilation. Now he does have the space to set up a seperate isolated area for painting, he just hasn't done it yet.

18 weeks is a ridiculous amount of time, period!

Even in a crude shop 6 to 8 weeks is normal. This guy is janking you around. Go get your guitar and take it to Pete in k-zoo or Greg's guy.

As for pay if he quoted you 300, give him 100 and call it even.

[kbp810]

18 weeks is a ridiculous amount of time, period!

Even in a crude shop 6 to 8 weeks is normal. This guy is janking you around. Go get your guitar and take it to Pete in k-zoo or Greg's guy.

As for pay if he quoted you 300, give him 100 and call it even.

I tend to agree with this... you could have shipped it down to Big Bob's House of Custom Knobs and Guitar Re-Finishing Emporium and probably got it back sooner... though it may have come back smelling like scotch, cigars, beach sand, and salt water.

 

If you decide to go grab it let me know.. I'll give the hugging luthier a call and we'll set up a time to go see him.

[DetroitBlues]

Gotcha. In this case, I would stick with him for the stuff mentioned, and NOT refinish work, however as much as it chafes since you know you are going to be going back to him even though you are the customer, maintaining a little diplomacy on your part could not hurt.

 

Best of luck though. Hopefully you can remain firm-yet-civil (which I think you did a nice job of), and he is able to step on the gas a little. You really have handled this about as well as could be imagined, in my opinion.

 

That's exactly what I'm trying to do by not going overboard, a little diplomacy goes a long way... Now with my Statefarm agent, well, I wasn't so diplomatic today...

 

18 weeks is a ridiculous amount of time, period!

Even in a crude shop 6 to 8 weeks is normal. This guy is janking you around. Go get your guitar and take it to Pete in k-zoo or Greg's guy.

As for pay if he quoted you 300, give him 100 and call it even.

 

It may come down to paying only a $100. But I've gone too far now not to go on. I think I passed the point of no return a this time....

[Blunote]

Like others have said, he hasn't offered you anything. You still don't have a committed finish date. All he's done is put the decision back in your lap. I think he figures he's got your money so you'll most likely put up with the delay.

 

Were I you, I'd give he a date that I planned to pick up the guitar and tell hem that either it's finished, or I'll take it to a luthier who will complete it promptly. I'd also make sure he knew I'd be charging that expense back to him against money already paid. If he doesn't agree to that, I'd tell him to have the guitar ready for immediate pick up. I'd further promise him that I'd file in small claims court, and lodge a complaint with the BBB and Chamber of Commerce.

 

Basically I'd say something like this:

"I've been very patient, but you have failed to perform your end of the bargain. Even now, you have not given me a date on which the work will be completed. I intend to pick this guitar up on July 12. If it's not finished, I'll take it another luthier. His name is Guido and he even hugs his customers. He's not cheap, but he is very reliable and I know I can count on him to do a good job. Once he's completed the work I'll be expecting a refund from you for money I paid Guido"

If that's not acceptable to him i'd add:

"If you don't refund the difference, I'll toddle on down to the court house and file a small claim. I'm confident the magistrate will find in my favor."

I hope that doesn't sound too harsh. But from my perspective, this guy's shining you on. You're not high enough on is list of priorities (probably because he's already got your money) to motivate him to get the job done. Personally, I don't think you'll have to take your guitar home, You just have to convince him that you are disturbed enough to be a colossal PIA. I think this guy just needs to believe that it's more hassle for him to not get your guitar finished, than it is for him to complete the work.

[DetroitBlues]

Like others have said, he hasn't offered you anything. You still don't have a committed finish date. All he's done is put the decision back in your lap. I think he figures he's got your money so you'll most likely put up with the delay.

 

Were I you, I'd give he a date that I planned to pick up the guitar and tell hem that either it's finished, or I'll take it to a luthier who will complete it promptly. I'd also make sure he knew I'd be charging that expense back to him against money already paid. If he doesn't agree to that, I'd tell him to have the guitar ready for immediate pick up. I'd further promise him that I'd file in small claims court, and lodge a complaint with the BBB and Chamber of Commerce.

 

Basically I'd say something like this:

"I've been very patient, but you have failed to perform your end of the bargain. Even now, you have not given me a date on which the work will be completed. I intend to pick this guitar up on July 12. If it's not finished, I'll take it another luthier. His name is Guido and he even hugs his customers. He's not cheap, but he is very reliable and I know I can count on him to do a good job. Once he's completed the work I'll be expecting a refund from you for money I paid Guido"

If that's not acceptable to him i'd add:

"If you don't refund the difference, I'll toddle on down to the court house and file a small claim. I'm confident the magistrate will find in my favor."

I hope that doesn't sound too harsh. But from my perspective, this guy's shining you on. You're not high enough on is list of priorities (probably because he's already got your money) to motivate him to get the job done. Personally, I don't think you'll have to take your guitar home, You just have to convince him that your disturbed, and be willing to be a colossal PIA. I think this guy just needs to believe that it's more hassle for him to not get your guitar finished, than it is for him to complete the work.

 

I haven't paid him a dime for it yet. He has until 15th to get it done. I'll be at his doorstep on 18th looking for it if he doesn't...

[Blunote]

I haven't paid him a dime for it yet. He has until 15th to get it done. I'll be at his doorstep on 18th looking for it if he doesn't...

 

That works.

 

You've been more patient with this guy than you should ever have had to be.

[big bob]

I haven't paid him a dime for it yet. He has until 15th to get it done. I'll be at his doorstep on 18th looking for it if he doesn't...

Detroit, this guy is just plain janking you around, he already knows he has far more money and time in it than he quoted you. He is going to finish it around the work he knows he will make a profit on, which means for you last on the list. I would be surprised if you get it on the 18th. I would also be surprised if he dosent try to squeeze you for more money then quoted. Do yourself a favor and cut and run.

[Guest HRB853370]

I haven't paid him a dime for it yet. He has until 15th to get it done. I'll be at his doorstep on 18th looking for it if he doesn't...

 

Tell him you have a Certified Fraud Investigator that you would be happy to consult with if he decides to rip you off. I'll be happy to mail my card to you.

[DetroitBlues]

Let's just see what happens for now... As I said, the 18th is the day I show up unnanounced.

[DetroitBlues]

I received another email and its more bitter than the rest. At this point, I had to remember, I know this guy, I know his personality and email wasn't doing either us any good. Spoke to him on the phone and he explained things a little better. He has until the 15th of July to finish the guitar. He's doing the wiring, setup, and the nut for free. I'm paying $250 for the refinish work and not a penny more. So that's how we left it. He was happy and so am I. I'm expecting an email from him with the latest pic of the guitar. He claims it looks absolutely stunning now and I really hope its true.

[big bob]

I received another email and its more bitter than the rest. At this point, I had to remember, I know this guy, I know his personality and email wasn't doing either us any good. Spoke to him on the phone and he explained things a little better. He has until the 15th of July to finish the guitar. He's doing the wiring, setup, and the nut for free. I'm paying $250 for the refinish work and not a penny more. So that's how we left it. He was happy and so am I. I'm expecting an email from him with the latest pic of the guitar. He claims it looks absolutely stunning now and I really hope its true.

good deal, hope it what you were after.

[Hfan]

I received another email and its more bitter than the rest. At this point, I had to remember, I know this guy, I know his personality and email wasn't doing either us any good. Spoke to him on the phone and he explained things a little better. He has until the 15th of July to finish the guitar. He's doing the wiring, setup, and the nut for free. I'm paying $250 for the refinish work and not a penny more. So that's how we left it. He was happy and so am I. I'm expecting an email from him with the latest pic of the guitar. He claims it looks absolutely stunning now and I really hope its true.

 

That sounds much more like it, Hope it has lowered your anxiety level. I couldn't imagine especially with it being your 1st and only Heritage I believe.

 

Actually, if it turns out well, maybe I can send him my 157, he can re finish it (buckle rash) and do the nut. He could even take his time, like free long term storage. With a guitar case missing from my storage area, I could buy another guitar and my wife wouldn't know the difference. I assume she is keeping count but I aint asking.

[DetroitBlues]

That sounds much more like it, Hope it has lowered your anxiety level. I couldn't imagine especially with it being your 1st and only Heritage I believe.

 

Actually, if it turns out well, maybe I can send him my 157, he can re finish it (buckle rash) and do the nut. He could even take his time, like free long term storage. With a guitar case missing from my storage area, I could buy another guitar and my wife wouldn't know the difference. I assume she is keeping count but I aint asking.

 

Its my one and only Heritage. Probably will be for a very long time.

[DetroitBlues]

To ease my pain, I was sent a few pics from yesterday afternoon...

 

[big bob]

that's looking great. Love that top..

[H]

Could be well worth the wait, DB! Looks VSB-ish to me.

[DetroitBlues]

Its exactly what I wanted for sure. Question though, is it rare to have the flammed top be a one piece?

[kbp810]

Its exactly what I wanted for sure. Question though, is it rare to have the flammed top be a one piece?

I think so... the great look of book matching set aside, I don't think you see very many big enough hunks of figured maple to make a one piece top like that anymore.