rs guitar works

[GuitArtMan]

No I haven't seen it yet, but I heard he was releasing it.

 

Do you have a link?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[GuitArtMan]

No I haven't seen it yet, but I heard he was releasing it.

 

Do you have a link?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

This one has me gassin' for a McInturff big time!

[GuitArtMan]

Hey Kuz....I actually tend to think we're on the same page regarding an electronics upgrade, but we're essentially just looking at things from a slightly different approach. For the $80 or more that RS charges for their kits, I just tend to think that you can get - at the very least - pretty darn close to what you're describing by paying about half the price. Nine times out of 10 replacing stock components with good, quality parts will vastly improve the tone of a guitar, and I don't think either of us will deny that. While I have yet to try RS's Superpots (I intend to some day for my own curiousity), I am a strong believer in the 50s wiring as well as upgrading the electronics, pickups, and even the entire bridge and tailpiece assembly. And, like yourself, I feel that many of these upgrades will open up the sound of a guitar that may have been previously written off as a "dead-sounding" instrument. My recent acquistion of an H-150 is a prime example, for I'm quite certain that's why the previous owner sold it. That guitar arrived with modern wiring with 250K pots and bleed caps (IMO, these tend to suck tone), and after an upgrade of Throbak SLE-101+ pups, aluminum tailpiece w/steel studs, 50s wiring w/VQ PIO tone caps and matched 500k CTS volume pots, the guitar came to life big-time! In the end, less became more, and the guitar even dropped in weight by about a half-pound.

 

Jimbob,

I think you and I are on the same page. While I agree with John that RS parts in the grand scheme of things are a relatively inexpensive upgrade, the mark up on their (and not just theirs alone) parts is insane! I'm a EE by schooling, though a software engineer by trade. The guitar playing world is being duped by these companies that take standard electronics components and sell them as special guitar parts for just insane markups. It's much the same way StewMac takes a common product and re-markets it as a guitar product, for a healthy mark up. Those "Luxe" caps that are just a paper and oil cap dressed up to look like an old cap. Eegads! And the Russian paper and oil caps everyone raves about and spends $8 or $10 bucks on? I was at a local pickup builder house last weekend and he had sourced those directly from Russia at 20 cents each - he handed me a couple to stuff in my shirt and try out. If you have an electronics store near you (not radio shack or frys) go in and price some parts sometime. It will be eye opening I promise.

Bob

[Hfan]

Any recommendations for where to buy individual components? I've used Mouser but their catalog is a bear to get through. Sounds like a cheap way to do some cool mods, my curiosity is up now.. Lots of stuff (as usual too much) out there on 50's wiring etc.

 

For pots are audio taper used for only the tone? Looks like the kits use 500k all around.

[kbp810]

Any recommendations for where to buy individual components? I've used Mouser but their catalog is a bear to get through. Sounds like a cheap way to do some cool mods, my curiosity is up now.. Lots of stuff (as usual too much) out there on 50's wiring etc.

 

For pots are audio taper used for only the tone? Looks like the kits use 500k all around.

Here are a few sites that I like to use:

 

Tubesandmore.com

Tubedepot.com

Mojotone.com

[Jimbob]

Jimbob,

I think you and I are on the same page. While I agree with John that RS parts in the grand scheme of things are a relatively inexpensive upgrade, the mark up on their (and not just theirs alone) parts is insane! I'm a EE by schooling, though a software engineer by trade. The guitar playing world is being duped by these companies that take standard electronics components and sell them as special guitar parts for just insane markups. It's much the same way StewMac takes a common product and re-markets it as a guitar product, for a healthy mark up. Those "Luxe" caps that are just a paper and oil cap dressed up to look like an old cap. Eegads! And the Russian paper and oil caps everyone raves about and spends $8 or $10 bucks on? I was at a local pickup builder house last weekend and he had sourced those directly from Russia at 20 cents each - he handed me a couple to stuff in my shirt and try out. If you have an electronics store near you (not radio shack or frys) go in and price some parts sometime. It will be eye opening I promise.

Bob

 

 

Hey Bob,

 

Yeah, I tend to think that the introduction of relic’d guitars as well as the onset of the internet pretty much spawned a gazillion entrepreneurs – amateur and professional alike - to capture in on the "vintage vibe," so to speak. I mean, these days we’re seeing $1000 or more tacked on to a regular Strat or a Les Paul simply because it’s been beat to crap by a renowned and accomplished relic artist. Or, if we take a look at vintage bridges, pickup covers, etc., we’ll find that it’ll cost us an additional $20 or more just to have them look “aged.” I sincerely believe that many of us have transformed into a mindset while thinking older is better, and “the look” has very much become a part of it all. Funny, but when I was a kid learning how to play the guitar, I must’ve passed on dozens upon dozens of old used 50s Les Pauls, Strats and Teles only because they looked used and rather beat up. Nobody wanted them, even though all of them could be bought in the $75 – $350 range. Of course, this was before Duane and Jimi and Eric brought them to the forefront, but still....things have certainly changed.

 

About electronics in general, I honestly believe that the construction of amplifier tubes is perhaps the one area where we’re sorely lacking, for we’re simply not building them like they were once built and for obvious reasons. It’s really no wonder why guys go crazy over NOS tubes, including myself....LOL, but that’s beside the point. Perhaps – but only perhaps - the same can be said for guitar parts to some degree, too, but there certainly was no exact science as to what magnets, wiring, number of winds, pot values, cap values, etc. to use. It was experimental at best, and only one’s ears could really decide what the better outcome might be. Even today it’s speculative at best, for only we as musicians can decide what works best for us. Further still, our results can only be determined by the wood that’s used in a guitar as well as how it interacts with the sum of its parts. Some woods and type of construction just sound very dull while others sound vibrant, bright, or alive.

 

Speaking from my own experience, I’ve always found that good quality caps and pots will make a very noticeable difference in tone when compared to the cheap, stock ceramic caps we’re accustomed to seeing, or at least it’s quite obvious to my ears. When we begin to compare today’s high-quality caps compared with those used in the 50s on the old Les Pauls (Bumble Bee) and other Gibsons, I tend to think that the difference becomes much less discernible, at least to my ears. I’ve had great success with both, so I am by no means knocking the quality of Luxe or NOS BBs, for they’re indeed very good caps, but I’m no longer willing to fork out $50 to $100 for a NOS Bumble Bee or $20+ for a Luxe if I’m unable to decipher much difference, if any. As I’ve said earlier, I haven’t tried the RS Superpots, so I really can’t comment on them, but I do find a relatively good taper in the standard CTS audio taper 500K pots, so I really haven’t felt a need to try others. In general, though, if the tone differences essentially become indiscernible to my ears, I’ll now opt to save some cash. Although, I’ll admit that I’ve purchased plenty of caps in the $5 – $10 range.....LOL.

 

Regarding other upgrades such as pickups and bridge assemblies, I also tend to think that many of the same principles of guitar construction apply as to what one may decide to choose. While I love the aluminum stop tailpiece and steel stud bolts on my H-150, I actually prefer the tone of my H-535 better with the stock Schaller tailpiece. The Schaller IMO is kind of ugly and heavy, but the guitar is already quite “airy” sounding without making it more so with an aluminum piece. I’m with Kuz all the way regarding Throbak pickups, though. Never in my life would I have thought to spend nearly $500 on a pair of pickups, but they really are that good!

 

Anyway, I didn’t mean to rob or hijack the thread here.......just wanted to add some thoughts. Thanks!

[eljay]

this is a great thread! i wuz all set to swing by RS GW on the way home from psp4 to have my R8 upgraded but now i'm reconsidering.

 

could a "knowledgeable someone" suggest the specific cap and pot specs i need to upgrade an R8 to good effect? all the buzz seems to be that gib custom shop guitars still don't have great electronics.

 

there is a good ol' fashioned electronics store here in ft. collins that i'm sure has or can get good capacitors for me. not sure about potentiometers. then, as kpb810 suggests, there is always mojotone.com if my local store can't deliver.

 

spec. values would be most helpful. is "paper in oil" a way to go or the way to go?

 

my guitar-playin' bro. is very handy with a soldering iron and can do the installation for me, but i don't know what pieces to buy.

 

grateful for your suggestions, eljay

[eljay]

 

idjit above did not search first. found kpb's great post on a thread back in april. my

[kbp810]

this is a great thread! i wuz all set to swing by RS GW on the way home from psp4 to have my R8 upgraded but now i'm reconsidering.

 

could a "knowledgeable someone" suggest the specific cap and pot specs i need to upgrade an R8 to good effect? all the buzz seems to be that gib custom shop guitars still don't have great electronics.

 

there is a good ol' fashioned electronics store here in ft. collins that i'm sure has or can get good capacitors for me. not sure about potentiometers. then, as kpb810 suggests, there is always mojotone.com if my local store can't deliver.

 

spec. values would be most helpful. is "paper in oil" a way to go or the way to go?

 

my guitar-playin' bro. is very handy with a soldering iron and can do the installation for me, but i don't know what pieces to buy.

 

grateful for your suggestions, eljay

 

CTS pots are a great way to go, I also just used Bourns Conductive Polymer's in my H150 on it's last re-wire with great results.

 

I like to use 500k Volume and 250k Tone, paired with .022 paper in oil capacitors... while the electrical thinking part of my brain keeps telling me PIO is "a" way to go... it's also the way I happen to keep going, lol. Though high quality polypropylene based caps are not a bad way to go either.

[Jimbob]

could a "knowledgeable someone" suggest the specific cap and pot specs i need to upgrade an R8 to good effect? all the buzz seems to be that gib custom shop guitars still don't have great electronics.

 

there is a good ol' fashioned electronics store here in ft. collins that i'm sure has or can get good capacitors for me. not sure about potentiometers. then, as kpb810 suggests, there is always mojotone.com if my local store can't deliver.

 

spec. values would be most helpful. is "paper in oil" a way to go or the way to go?

 

 

Well, just a few more thoughts here.....

 

First, you really need to decide whether or not you want to go 50s wiring or modern wiring. The biggest advntage of 50s wiring is that your volume control typically won't lose the high end as you roll your V-control back. Personally, I love this aspect of the 50s wiring, and it's the primary reason why I use it. According to some, the downside is that your tone control becomes dependent upon your volume control as opposed to being independent with modern wiring. This has never bothered me, but I also don't mind tweaking the tone control frequently to get what I'm looking for. Modern wiring can be wired so that the volume control maintains the high-end upon being rolled back, but only if you use a bleed cap setup on the V-control. I tend to think it's just another piece of the chain that isn't necessarily needed, and some believe this can suck tone, myself included. I also tend to believe that the 50s wiring will tend to open up the sound of the guitar more for these reasons. Of course, many will have solid arguments to both sides of the coin, but it's also good to try these things both ways to decide what's best for yourself.

 

Regarding the purchase of pots and caps, if budget isn't an issue, you really can't go wrong with RS. Their kits contain all the good stuff needed, and if I'm not mistaken, you can order it all pre-wired and ready to install. As stated above, though, some have had issues, but I think it's been minimal from what I've heard. If you visit the Les Paul forums, you'll find that most folks who don't worry about cost will go with RS every time, and for good reason.

 

On a modest budget, I've found Mojotone to be a pretty good place to buy parts, especially their CTS 500K audio taper pots. I'll usually buy about a half dozen or more unmatched pots at a time and then take a multimeter to match volume controls for whatever guitar I may be using them in. For Les Pauls and H-150s, I'll try to get a pair of volume controls as close to 500K as possible. Tone controls generally aren't as important to match unless you're fussy about having them matched, but be prepared to receive pots that range anywhere from about 450K to 510K. Matched pots will cost about 2 1/2 times more than unmatched, so if you really want matched, be prepared to pay for them. The pots are the same quality regardless. I've also tried Mojo's Vitamin T PIOs with decent success, and the price is right. As I said in an earlier post, I honestly believe that many of these higher-quality PIO caps that fall into the $3 to perhaps $10 range rival the more expensive caps pretty well. There may be a difference in tone as I'm quite certain many believe, but it's not huge when you compare all of these caps to their el-cheapo ceramic counterparts. I know that a lot of folks like Orange Drops, too, and they're really not a bad cap, either, especially in a crunch or if you want to play around with different values. Some people swear by them, too. In general, my favorite caps are the NOS Bumble Bees (expensive), followed by the Luxe BBs (expensive, but much better priced than NOS), followed by a pretty wide variety of PIO caps. I really don't think you can go wrong with the Spraque Vitamin Q PIO caps in any guitar.

 

Values in tone caps are pretty basic: go with higher value caps for less-high end and lower values to open up more high-end. I think the standard for Les Pauls is typically a .022 cap for the bridge pickup and .015 for the neck. I went with a .033 bridge in my H-150 only because I feel that my high-end is just a tad bright with that pickup. I run a .012 cap for the neck, but I wouldn't mind having even a little more high end out it.

 

In the end, it's all just a bunch subjective BS....LOL. Just give it a try and see how things fly. Sooner or later you'll just get a feel for what you like for any particular instrument.

[Hfan]

I'm enjoying this thread as well. Vaguely remember past threads on these subjects, will need to review.

 

Was watching a you tube clip of a guy playing a strat demonstrating 7 different caps. I was skeptical about different caps having noticeably different tonal qualities but the demo showed big variations.