Does the H-150 deserve the title of the "True Les Paul"?

[Kazwell]

I know a lot of folks get irritated when folks use the term " True Les Paul" to describe an H-150 (or H-157 and H-140)in ads, but since Heritage as a manufacturer has key players that  DID in fact produce early model Les Pauls, if not legally, doesn't it seem like if any guitars can get away with at least an honorary title, it would be this Heritage line?

[yoslate]

I know a lot of folks get irritated when folks use the term " True Les Paul" to describe an H-150 (or H-157 and H-140)in ads, but since Heritage as a manufacturer has key players that  DID in fact produce early model Les Pauls, if not legally, doesn't it seem like if any guitars can get away with at least an honorary title, it would be this Heritage line?

 

Does really seem like it, doesn't it?  But we've also ventured into the murky legal and ethical swamp of branding and marketing.  Kind of hit me earlier today when I viewed Brent's post on e-Bay for his Gary Moore 150, in which he characterized the guitar as a "les paul" (sic).  Lack of caps was Brent's.  I wondered what his thinking was on that.  What better way is there of characterizing a 150 to those less aware of the instrument's pedigree?  But, technically, at least to both Gibson and Heritage, it isn't.  Wonder what Ren, Marv, Jim, Bill, J.P., or even Les would have to say?  I think, in the best of all possible worlds, a 150 wouldn't need to be identified as a "Les Paul," that "Heritage 150" would have the same identity and cachet as, say, "Gibson 335," and that would be it....

 

 

 

(The italics are unintentional....  Can't seem to edit them out of this post.)

[Gitfiddler]

I know a lot of folks get irritated when folks use the term " True Les Paul" to describe an H-150 (or H-157 and H-140)in ads, but since Heritage as a manufacturer has key players that  DID in fact produce early model Les Pauls, if not legally, doesn't it seem like if any guitars can get away with at least an honorary title, it would be this Heritage line?

 

Uh, not exactly.  After Les Paul basically invented the electric guitar (The Log) way back when, he signed on with Gibson and later he participated in the development of the guitar that became the '54 Les Paul model.  Goldtop, Custom and Bursts all had his signature, licensed by G.  As long as his name is on their headstock, it continues to this day that "True Les Pauls" belong to Henry's company.  Heritage was started by employees of Gibson, so whatever they built has nothing to do with LP or Gibby.  Yes, the design is very similar and the builders/owners are some of the same guys that built 'real' Les Pauls, but they left all rights to calling their fine products Les Pauls when they separated from their previous employer.  Finally, knowing how sue-happy the guys at GBrand have always been (Sued Ibanez in the 70's, and PRS recently, etc.), ain't no way Heritage would even think of dipping their corporate toe into the lawyer-laiden swamp of Gibson.  'Honorary' Les Paul?  Nah!

 

Now, sellers will use any verbiage they can dig up to induce us to separate buyers from their hard earned bucks and buy their guitars.  Connecting Heritage to the old Gibby company is a natural and accurate statement...to a point.  But 'true Les Pauls'?  I don't think so.  Maybe even 'better than a Les Paul' or 'Damn near as good as any Custom Shop guitar' or even 'the best LP style guitar money can buy'...etc.  You get the picture.  8) 

[brentrocks]

i used les paul in the title to catch more searches...attact more attention

 

'ol ebay trick :wink:

[GuitArtMan]

Uh, not exactly.  After Les Paul basically invented the electric guitar (The Log) way back when, he signed on with Gibson and later he participated in the development of the guitar that became the '54 Les Paul model.  Goldtop, Custom and Bursts all had his signature, licensed by G.  As long as his name is on their headstock, it continues to this day that "True Les Pauls" belong to Henry's company.  Heritage was started by employees of Gibson, so whatever they built has nothing to do with LP or Gibby.  Yes, the design is very similar and the builders/owners are some of the same guys that built 'real' Les Pauls, but they left all rights to calling their fine products Les Pauls when they separated from their previous employer.  Finally, knowing how sue-happy the guys at GBrand have always been (Sued Ibanez in the 70's, and PRS recently, etc.), ain't no way Heritage would even think of dipping their corporate toe into the lawyer-laiden swamp of Gibson.  'Honorary' Les Paul?  Nah!

 

Now, sellers will use any verbiage they can dig up to induce us to separate buyers from their hard earned bucks and buy their guitars.  Connecting Heritage to the old Gibby company is a natural and accurate statement...to a point.  But 'true Les Pauls'?  I don't think so.  Maybe even 'better than a Les Paul' or 'Damn near as good as any Custom Shop guitar' or even 'the best LP style guitar money can buy'...etc.  You get the picture.  8)   

Les didn't invent the electric guitar - I believe that honor belongs to Rickenbacker if I'm not mistaken.  The log was a prototype solid body electric that the Gword declined to manufactured until some company called Fender started kickin' ass with their new solid body electric. 

[GuitArtMan]

The real Les Paul is the guy holding the guitar.

[Gitfiddler]

Les didn't invent the electric guitar - I believe that honor belongs to Rickenbacker if I'm not mistaken.  The log was a prototype solid body electric that the Gword declined to manufactured until some company called Fender started kickin' ass with their new solid body electric. 

 

Yep, Ricky invented what I believe was called "the Pan" guitar.  I probably mis-spoke, but should have added..."invented the electric guitar as we know it today...".  Thanks for keeping me honest.  :police:

[Kazwell]

OK then, howabout "smarter more experienced and musicworthy cousin to Les Paul" (guitar that is, -good catch GuitArtMan!!)?

[Kuz]

I don't care what you call the 150 but it is the "original" Les Paul, made the way they used to make Les Pauls.

 

I was going to start a new thread about this topic.

 

Some here think putting on Les Paul appointments on a 150 ( LP pick guard, rhythm/treble ring, ect) is bastardizing a Heritage guitar. I say the opposite.

 

A new Nashville Gibby LP with it's appointments is bastardizing the original LPs made in K-zoo.

So I put the original LP appointments on my 150 (and the new 150 that will be here within a week!!!!) because it is the original!

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[cosmikdebriis]

Just a thought...

 

But the Gibbon version isn't a "true" Les Paul. The original design was for a thru neck and Gibbon decided against it for economic reasons.

 

Perhaps H could make a series of thru necks and try and persuade Mr Paul to put his name to them... :angel:

 

Ok, I know that ain't gonna happen... Just a pleasant dream of mine... :wink:

[Dick Seacup]

When I tell people about the advantages and appeal of Heritage guitars, I don't mention "Les Paul" at all.  In any context.  I do, however, make a point of explaining that some of the most coveted, sought after vintage guitars known to man rolled out of the doors of 225 W. Parsons Street in Kalamazoo nearly 50 years ago.  Five of the workers at that Gibson plant, who were responsible, in some way, for building those "holy grail" guitars that collectors willingly drop half-a-million dollars for have kept the factory going.  If you want a guitar built by the same guys that turned out that famous 1959 'burst, there's only one place you can go, and that's back to Kalamazoo, not Nashville or Memphis. 

 

Gibson might have a "historic reissue" of certain models, but they're not built by the same people, nor with the same passion as the H-150s rolling out of that door in southwest Michigan.  Do you want to buy some Harvard MBA's idea of what a Nashville-built replica should be?  Or, do you want to own a piece of the hearts and souls of five men who helped make history?  It comes down to whether or not you honestly feel that the name on the headstock is what made those old guitars magical (and not all of them were).  Or, whether you think that the masterful craftsmen and the artistic touches which they endow upon these collections of wood and wire and steel has more to do with deriving a sum that is greater than the individual parts.

 

It's not a question of whether an H-150 is the "true Les Paul."  The real question is, who can honestly claim to be caretaker of one of the most important heritages (small 'h') in the history of musical instruments?  Is it the company that owns a name that is twice removed from where it all began?  Or, is it the company where the people who "did it" back then are still "doing it" today?  If you say the former, then please, by all means enjoy your brand-derived sense of identity.  However, if you, like me, believe it is the latter, well then, let us play our guitars and rejoice, for you and I are the reason those men in Kalamazoo are still building guitars today.

 

As owners of Heritage guitars, we are given the opportunity to act as caretakers ourselves.  In no small part, we too are carrying this heritage forward.  The next time you pick up that H-150, pause and think about the tools that have shaped it, the hands that have touched it, the very real personal investment that those workers in that old building made because they hoped...hoped, not knew...that one day someone just like you would appreciate their efforts.  And then see if you play it the same way, or maybe, as I think is likely, you play with just a little more passion yourself.

[Gitfiddler]

Dick~ May I have your permission to quote your entire last post in any Ebay ad IF I ever sell my Heritage gits?  :wink:

[Kazwell]

As owners of Heritage guitars, we are given the opportunity to act as caretakers ourselves.  In no small part, we too are carrying this heritage forward.  The next time you pick up that H-150, pause and think about the tools that have shaped it, the hands that have touched it, the very real personal investment that those workers in that old building made because they hoped...hoped, not knew...that one day someone just like you would appreciate their efforts.  And then see if you play it the same way, or maybe, as I think is likely, you play with just a little more passion yourself.

 

Dude, thiese are the kind of words that would perfectly "fit" Heritage if they were to run an ad. Have guys like you and me on second thought make that every member of this forum in a group photo holding our favorite Heritage guitar. With these words below the picture.

It would be an original and outstanding statement as well as tribute to the Heritage.

[yoslate]

Not even going to copy it.  It's just up the page, and if you're on this forum, you've read it.  Quintessential post, Dick!  Well done, more than deserving karma up.  I'd be honored to applaud that one!

[GuitArtMan]

OK then, howabout "smarter more experienced and musicworthy cousin to Les Paul" (guitar that is, -good catch GuitArtMan!!)?

LMAO!!!  ;D

[squawken]

WOW!!  Very inspired and inspirational words.  Makes me even more proud to own Heritage's.

[brentrocks]

WOW!!  Very inspired and inspirational words.  Makes me even more proud to own Heritage's.

 

Yes indeed!  I think us Heritage owners are some of most insightfull guitar buyers/player in the world....we know quality!

[golferwave]

  I always tell anyone that asks about my H-150's that they are made in the same building and painted in the exact same paint booths as the 58, 59, and 60 LP bursts by guys that were working there then and are still building them today.  So I ask each of you - which guitar is closer to the original.  ;D  We all know the answer.