Blunote Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 I pulled the trigger on a set of BB pros that BobN had for sale. For some reason, I thought that replacing the Schallers (which I love) in my H150P was a good idea. And, being an avid DIYer, I decided that now was the time to invest in a solder station and do the swap myself. What the heck, it couldn't be that hard, and if all those other HOC members could do it, why not me? Yada, yada, yada. Fortunately, I can report that the new to me p'ups are installed, and work as advertised (thanks Bob, for remembering to include the screws and springs).. However, it wasn't quite as easy as advertised. Took about 3 hours from beginning to end. The main problem I ran into was the inability of my solder station to liquefy the solder blobs heritage used to ground the original electronics. See below I had my solder station turned to maximum, 842 degrees F, and still couldn't melt those blobs. What are they using for solder at Parson St., Kryptonite? Even so, I managed to get some new solder puddled up for the ground wires; I just hope I didn't cook the pots too badly trying to get the original blobs to liquefy. I noticed a few things; The pots are 450K. Seems like an odd value; most are 300 or 500K. They used what I think are polypropylene capacitors. they say they're .022 microfarens (sp?) values but measured at .0096, and .0105. Can anyone tell me if resistance measurements taken with the components installed are reliable? if anyone's keeping track of such things, the original Schaller pickups that were in the guitar were 7.75 for the neck and 8.35 at the bridge. While I was in there, I went ahead and replaced the output jack that was cutting out on me. You can see from the above photo how catywampus it's mounted. By the way, these are all 'before' shots. I wish my work looked this clean.
mars_hall Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 What are they using for solder at Parson St., Kryptonite? The trick, or one trick, is to use a 100W iron for the grounds and a 15W iron for the fine detailed stuff.
DetroitBlues Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 I've made my attempts at a using an iron. Did ok, but the secret is to "tin" the iron first, then touch what you are trying to pull off.
Blunote Posted July 30, 2011 Author Posted July 30, 2011 The trick, or one trick, is to use a 100W iron for the grounds and a 15W iron for the fine detailed stuff. The one I bought was 60 watts, I thought 850 degrees of heat would do it. Guess not.
Jimbob Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 Did you say you invested in a soldering station? If so, you should have more than enough heat. If the unit didn't come with a variety of tips, you can always buy them for different uses. A broader head tip (looks like a flathead screwdriver) will especially melt the solder quickly on the back of your pots without heating them up too much. Of course, the downside to this is that you have to change tips for more detailed and tighter joints. Another option is to tilt a pointed tip on a slant to get more of the tip in touch with the solder, but by doing this you also increase your chances of burning something else within the cavity. In the end, though, the idea is to get as much of the tip in contact with the solder as possible so that it melts and re-hardens quickly so that you don't fry out any of your electronics or melt the insulation sleeve on your wiring. Also, did you take an ohmage reading from your pots? The 450K notion sounds a bit strange to me, but I honestly don't think that the number "450" that we're seeing in the photo is the value of the pot. Generally speaking, but not always, it should clearly read something with three digits and a "K" following it (ex. 250K, 300K, 500K), but the only surefire way to know what the value is is to take a reading from them. Please correct me if I'm wrong about the number thing, though. As far as the caps, it is possible that they can weaken over time, but that's quite a dramatic drop. I would suppose it could be an older guitar, too. Regarding the accuracy of your readings, if you took them directly from the wires on each side of the cap, I believe they should be accurate. While those yellow barrel poly caps are ok - much better than cheap ceramics - I tend to believe that there are much better caps out there. Anyway, hope this helps!
H Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 Well done for having a go A lot of money gets paid to guitar techs for simple jobs like these. I'm pretty sure you can't measure a cap when it's soldered in place - the current you supply as the reference from the multimeter can flow through the cap or through the chain of components it's soldered to. It should only flow through the cap itself for measurement purposes. I think that is why your readings are so low.
Blunote Posted July 30, 2011 Author Posted July 30, 2011 As far as the caps, it is possible that they can weaken over time, but that's quite a dramatic drop. I would suppose it could be an older guitar, too. Regarding the accuracy of your readings, if you took them directly from the wires on each side of the cap, I believe they should be accurate. While those yellow barrel poly caps are ok - much better than cheap ceramics - I tend to believe that there are much better caps out there. Anyway, hope this helps! I did take the reading on both sides of the caps several times getting the same readings. At first I thought Heritage may have put high bleed caps in on purpose to compensate for darker tones they may have expected from an poplar body. It left me questioning whether an accurate reading could be made with the caps installed in the guitar. I also measured resistance of the pots with each turned up to maximum. The readings were all over the place, and nowhere near 450, 500, or even 250 for that matter. Sorry now that I didn't write them down. Again, the readings caused me to question whether and accurate number could be measured while connected to other components. I will get a broader tip and see if that allows me to clean up some of the old solder blobs. I have some de-soldering braid on hand for that purpose. Even so, some of you guys must be using your feet as well as hands to get some of those components connected in place. It can be a bit awkward with just two hands and pair of pliers.
brentrocks Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 learning how to do my own pickups swaps was the best thing i have ever done...it has saved me hundreds of dollars.
Thundersteel Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 When soldering, make sure you heat the joint first, then apply solder to the joint. If the solder doesn't melt, the the joint isn't hot enough. Heating the solder will only give you a cold solder joint, which will give you nothing but trouble. .022 microfarens (sp?) That would be microfarads.
bobmeyrick Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 I noticed a few things; The pots are 450K. Seems like an odd value; most are 300 or 500K. I reckon the "450" part of the code might be to identify the manufacturer - CTS?
High Flying Bird Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 All components in a circuit will measure differently than if measured alone. For large areas like grounds you should use a soldering gun. You can get one at Harbor Freight for around $20.00.
BobN Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 Blue Note - glad to see you got them installed. How do they sound compared to the Schallers? I was chicken and took it to a local tech. He ended up swapping out on of the caps as the prior owner had done quite a job on the soldering. Hope you enjoy them.
Millennium Maestro Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 I really like the barrel input jacks your guitar has! Its all fun!
Blunote Posted July 30, 2011 Author Posted July 30, 2011 I really like the barrel input jacks your guitar has! Its all fun! A wise man once told me guitars have "output" jacks.
Blunote Posted July 31, 2011 Author Posted July 31, 2011 Blue Note - glad to see you got them installed. How do they sound compared to the Schallers? I was chicken and took it to a local tech. He ended up swapping out on of the caps as the prior owner had done quite a job on the soldering. Hope you enjoy them. I'm trying to wrap my brain around a way to describe how they differ from the original Shallers. In a lot of ways, they sound similar except that the BBs seem to have a broader range. The guitar sounds a bit crisper at the top end. If I role the tone back on the neck pickup to 7 or 8, it better approximates the Schallers. The Shallers were really crunchy in a more detached way. These really growl and have a super fat bottom (like some girls I used to know). Despite that, I really like 'em. I compared them back to back with my H150 Ultra fitted with Seth Lovers and my Millie Standard Ultra with HRWs. This guitar now sounds somewhat more like the H-150 Ultra but isn't as articulate. It's hard to know how much of the difference can be attributed to the p'ups versus the guitar and electronics, The Millie with HRWs is in a different league.
tbonesullivan Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 learning how to do my own pickups swaps was the best thing i have ever done...it has saved me hundreds of dollars. yes... but now you'll spend hundreds swapping out pickups.
Hfan Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 yes... but now you'll spend hundreds swapping out pickups. Ha ha, dammed if you do and dammed if you don't I suppose.
brentrocks Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 yes... but now you'll spend hundreds swapping out pickups. You are right...I have developed a sudden attraction to Throbaks
Hfan Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 I've developed a theory to improve the tone of my Schallers....quit hitting all those wrong notes.
DetroitBlues Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 I've developed a theory to improve the tone of my Schallers....quit hitting all those wrong notes. I've had the same problem before.... after I bought new pickups several times...
brentrocks Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 I've developed a theory to improve the tone of my Schallers....quit hitting all those wrong notes. LMAO
mars_hall Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 It's too bad the after-market magnet people and pup makers out there are not all using the same size magnets. Schaller's magnets being different than Seymour Duncan's comes to mind, with the majority of magnets out there being made to fit Duncans. As I recall, the Duncans HBs have larger magnets. Alnico is difficult to cut and if it's not done right, it will quickly shatter or dull the tool. Even at that, I'm told by a friend that worked in the mechanical lab at Purdue, that it needs to be done in a bath. I am pretty sure the HRW is a stock pup with a different magnet. That level of technology, swapping magnets, is something that can be done without an extreme level of engineering expertise or a rewind being necessary. Just a gentle hand and a sharp eye when working the bobbins is all that is needed. Bottom-line: complete pickup swaps may not be necessary and you might want to try swapping the magnets to get a different sound or variation on what you have.
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