Tap Tuning

[DetroitBlues]

I've seen it on the website, I've heard people talk about it. I think I've even tried it once...

 

 

But what is TAP TUNING?

[setemupjoe]

I found this from guitar maker William Cumpiano. He seems very thoughtful and balanced on the subject. It's a bit of a lengthy read but worth it.

 

For once and for all, what's this "tap tuning"?

Dear William: This question came to my mind after reading Roger Siminoff' "luthier handbook". I have many doubts about tuning the soundboard. What do you think of his method of tuning each brace separately? He uses a stroboscope. I tried this method and came up with nothing. Also, he suggests tuning the air chamber by changing the soundhole diameter. Do YOU do this step? I don't think so, since you never mentioned it. Moreover, changing the soundhole might very well ruin a nicely made hole. I destroyed a nice soundhole in trying to make it larger. Now it is very ugly, but is exactly tuned to G 98 Hz. I have never read anything about changing the soundhole after you already installed the rosette, just before finishing. Could you please tell me your opinion on this?

 

My first advice would be to take anything you read by Roger Siminoff with skepticism (and mine too, for that matter). But I remember him once saying that if you "tune" the different parts of the guitar to the notes of a certain chord, the instrument will acquire the character or quality of that chord. So if you tuned the parts of a guitar to say, a C Major chord, it would acquire a bright and happy sound of that C chord. Yes, it’s as wacky as it sounds. He has been proposing his peculiar ideas for at least twenty years, and no one whom I know understands or follows him.

 

I also don't blame you for having many doubts about tuning the soundboard. It is probably the one question that beginners ask me with greatest frequency, and apparently the most tantalizing and confusing for them.

 

For a beginning guitarmaker, it is certainly a tantalizing dream, to have that kind of power and control over the sound of their guitars, no matter what woods or what designs they choose, or how the instrument is dimensioned or put together. Imagine that, just by removing a few slivers or scrapings of wood in the exact places, your guitars can be transformed into world-class instruments. Indeed, why would anyone want to go through years of practice and trial and error, if just acquiring this "tuning" skill will ensure success every time, right off the bat?

 

I admit, I once fell prey to the same siren’s song, early in my career. But after talking to dozens of professional guitarmakers about “tap tuning” (I’ve had the luxury of meeting many professional luthiers over the years) I've found few that have claimed hat the success of their guitars comes from a specific step called "tap tuning." On the other hand, the few who DO use that term each describe completely different actions or activities that fall under the same rubric. So I’ve concluded that “tap tuning” isn’t a specific procedure, but an amorphous concept with many different definitions, probably as many as there are practitioners.

Among the very few that actually say that they "tune" their guitars or "tune" their soundboards, some say that they do it while thinning their soundboards only, until it feels or sounds "right;" others say that they remove material from the braces after they are glued to the soundboard, before it is applied to the guitar; and one or two say that they remove material selectively from different parts of the soundboard and braces AFTER the soundbox is enclosed and completed. Some of these last guys attempt to change the tambour of the soundbox to a certain familiar sound by sanding the plates further or removing more wood from the braces.

 

Yet none have been able to explain to me clearly why they do what they do or what specifically are the goals they are trying to achieve—or how what they are doing is supposed to work. They just say that they manipulate the parts or the instrument until it responds in a "familiar" way. For example, one prominent maker claimed unhesitatingly to me that removing some wood from a certain spot on the bridge "cleared up" a certain note on a certain fret on a certain guitar. That would undoubtedly fall in the realm of "tuning", wouldn't it? He's convinced that it works for him. But if you asked him to teach you what he's doing or what he's thinking, I guarantee you'll end up as confused as trying to follow Roger Siminoff's reasoning. So even if you found someone who really tap-tunes their guitar, don't expect that he can also teach you to do what he does. Hellish, isn't it?

 

However, the great majority of professional builders I've inquired from, seem to agree that tonal success and consistency is, rather, derived from far more straightforward, if not equally elusive, considerations:

 

1- Careful and thoughtful selection of the unprocessed soundboard plates before the guitar is begun, so that their "feel" and appearance conforms to the way they "should" look and feel, in a familiar way. Most are very careful that their soundboards come from wood that has been split and the plates sawn precisely from the split face. To insure this they don't have to trust the wood seller, they instead have come to be able to SEE evidence on the surface and FEEL the evidence when they handle the pieces. This applies just as crucially to the wood that ends up as braces on the soundboard.

 

2- Success and consistency is derived from reducing the thickness of the guitar’s top, back and sides to a set of precise dimensions that have been learned over time to be the most appropriate--relative to the guitar's intended size and design. Very small deviations from the learned ideal, they perceive, have large effects on the final response of the instrument, so they strive to achieve great control over these thicknesses.

 

3- Success and consistency is derived from placing and shaping the soundboard braces to patterns and contours that, they have learned, gave consistently good results in the past. Braces are carved until they "look right", only rarely because they "sound right." Rarely are braces shaped on the finished guitar, and if then, only after some grievous miscalculation.

 

4- Success and consistency is derived from building the entire guitar so that its structure is as light and efficient as only it needs be to withstand the string tension effectively, and no heavier. The ability to ascertain when that is the case is also is the result of trial and error over a span of persistent and thoughtful experimentation...and assuredly, several setbacks on the way.

 

5- Success and consistency is eventually derived by starting from the beginning by duplicating as closely as possible the dimensions and plate thicknesses of specific admired guitars, guitars which serve as models and a starting-off point in further developing a personal building style.

 

6- All agree as crucial the achievement of the greatest dimensional accuracy possible during all the assembly steps--as regards joints, neck angle, etc. In other words, that parts of the guitar that have to be flat are very flat, that the angular relationships between adjacent parts end up being what they are intended to be, and that all the parts fit together precisely and tightly. Acquiring this precision is again, derived over an extended period of time. This precision culminates in the responsiveness of the action and the precision of its string's pitch, all which impress the player perhaps even more than any "subjective" evaluation of its sound. Usually a guitar that plays superbly--usually because it is assembled superbly-- performs superbly.

 

These are the only guitarmaking "secrets", in my estimation, that really matter. Alas, they are hard and time-consuming to achieve, and the road to their achievement has many switch-backs and set-back. Sorry. I, like you, wish there was an easier path.

So I don't worry much about "tap tuning". I've come to avoid claims that some simple set of movements or motions will enable you to perfect the sound of your guitar, and all you have to do is understand these simple movement and motions, and all will be well and excellent no matter what else you do. It's a fool's errand.

 

My path has been the harder one: Just doing guitarmaking until my ears and fingers and mind became familiar with the medium of guitarmaking. Indeed, your fingers and muscles and perception do become smarter and smarter over time: I promise you. Your decisions become more informed, your questions become better and the search for answers will become more fruitful over time.

 

Time and persistence, alas, is the only way mastery is nourished. If it weren't so, mastery wouldn't be as valuable as it is. If guitarmaking weren't so elusive and the rewards so significant, it wouldn't be worth puzzling so much about it, would it?

 

Com to think about it, the approach of people who've said that they "tune" their guitars and the ones that don't, in the end, seem to morph together. What is the same is that THEY have become "tuned" to what the guitar is feeding back to them in all kinds of ways, in ways that they can understand but cannot explain or teach. But it arrives nonetheless, at it's own sweet time.

[tbonesullivan]

Somehow, I think "tap tuning" may be more important for flat top Spanish/classical guitars, which have a VERY thin top supported by bracing.

[FredZepp]

Master Luthier Robert Benedetto answers...

 

 

Can you balance the guitar's voice through tap tuning?

 

BENEDETTO If there's any magic and romance involved in

making archtop guitars, this is it. Nothing excites me like

carving and tuning guitar tops and backs.

 

Tap tuning is the centuries-old violin-making technique of tapping the wood

before and while it's being carved, which is a very intuitive

process.

 

Briefly, it begins with tapping rough boards, resting

on the fingertips, that will be planed to tops and backs,

memorizing the tone produced. As the top and back are progressively

carved, they are continuously tapped to monitor this tone, which

drops dramatically in pitch. Carving the f-holes drops the pitch even

more. Gluing the bracing in causes the pitch to rise, and as the

braces are shaved, it again lowers. It's difficult to explain this

quickly, but in the hands of a good player, we want the top and

back graduated so that tha back will vibrate freely in sympathy

with the top, creating a well-balanced voice that improves as the

guitar ages. It is magical, isn't it?

[Gitfiddler]

Tap tuned archtops sound wonderful...acoustically.

 

However, amplified, the tonal difference is negligable, and due to the often extra thin carved spruce top, tend to feedback severely.

[MartyGrass]

Tap tuned archtops sound wonderful...acoustically.

 

However, amplified, the tonal difference is negligable, and due to the often extra thin carved spruce top, tend to feedback severely.

 

 

What a wet blanket!

 

I do agree that there probably is at best a slightly fuller sound amplified. But I practice mostly acoustically and I'm my most consistent audience. Doesn't my audience deserve that extra tone?

[Gitfiddler]

 

 

What a wet blanket!

 

I do agree that there probably is at best a slightly fuller sound amplified. But I practice mostly acoustically and I'm my most consistent audience. Doesn't my audience deserve that extra tone?

 

 

That's Mr. Wet Blanket to you, sir!

 

Tap tuning was originally intended for acoustic instruments (violins, violas, mandolins, guitars, etc.).

I'm no expert, but tap tuned electrified archtops always tend to feedback more than non-taptuned archtops.

 

If there are experts out there, feel free to chime in.

 

http://www.petersontuners.com/oldweb/images/bank/RussHaywood1.jpg

 

Here are a series of YouTube vids on the topic.

 

[Kuz]

OK, I have to disagree BIG TIME that tap tuning has very little effect amplified.

 

My Florintine Golden Eagle (mounted HRW), my Custom 575 (mounted Seth Lovers) are NOT tap tuned because of the top mounted humbuckers.

 

My Blonde Golden Eagle with the floating pickup IS TAP TUNED.

 

Tap tuning brings out all the frequencies and also gives a nice even note response accross all strings (from low E to High E.... thus the tap "tuning" name). This even response is VERY evident when it is amplified.

 

Tap tuned guitar are LOUDER acoustically (any humbucker mounted archtop is NOT tap tuned, unless requested/paid extra for and even this is redundant with the humbucker decreasing the vibration of the top & muting the acoustic properties).

 

I love the sound of my Florintine GE & 575 amplified, but the best tone amplified for string balance is my tap tuned Blonde GE.

 

The Blonde GE (tap tuned) also initially gives the impression it is brighter amplified, but this is only because it doesn't have the powerful humbucker powering it.

 

Which of my archtops is the best/my favorite..... all of them. It would be like choosing which is my favorite son!!!

[MartyGrass]

Ren Wall agrees with you Kuz. And so do many others. Plus I'd like to believe you since I have a couple of tap tuned guitars.

 

There are so many other differences among the guitars that I can't tell what to ascribe to tap tuning.

 

My Johnny Smith and my Unity were both tap tuned by Aaron Cowles. They sound nothing alike yet both have Floating #3 pups. They are both noticeably lighter than my Golden Eagles though.

 

Confusing!

[Gitfiddler]

I really don't see the huge disagreement here. I was mostly commenting on the increased instance of feedback with thinly carved, tap tuned archtops. No one has responded to that.

 

However I stand by my comment about the negligable tonal improvement of amplified tap tuned archtops. This is based on MY ears. Maybe others have greater hearing than I, but my tap tuned Golden Eagle sounds wonderful acoustically and through amps...as do other tap tuned GE's that I've played. Again, my ears hear a slight improvement in note clarity and volume over non-tap tuned instruments. Your mileage...or hearing may vary.

[FredZepp]

Although I have a tap tuned Heritage, it's contruction / woods make it difficult to make any comments of the effects of the tap tuning.

 

It's an 18" with flamed maple top and quilted maple back and sides and 2 mounted humbuckers. With the hardness of the maples used, I believe that is a big factor in not having any feedback issues with mine. There are NO feedback issues with the Centurion, but that might be different in spruce/ mahogany contruction and floating pickup.

[Kuz]

I really don't see the huge disagreement here. I was mostly commenting on the increased instance of feedback with thinly carved, tap tuned archtops. No one has responded to that.

 

I am in 100% agreement with you on increased feedback due to the thinner tops and different bracing configuration.

 

All I was pointing out is that I do believe the louder, more balanced tone acoustically heard on tap tuned archtops DOES translate over when amplified. AND to even confuse things more, I feel tap tuned archtops actually LACK a perceived deeper, fuller, brassier tone vs top humbucker mounted archtops. The fullness is still there in the tap tuned archtops, but the frequencies are so well balanced, it is not heard as bass heavy bump like humbucker mounted archtops.

 

Again, if you ask me is the tap tuned tonal archtop my favorite jazz tone (ie more acoustic sounding), I would actually say I prefer the humbucker mounted darker archtop tone.

 

The point is, there is a difference and it is heard both acoustically and amplified.

[DetroitBlues]

OK, I have to disagree BIG TIME that tap tuning has very little effect amplified.

 

My Florintine Golden Eagle (mounted HRW), my Custom 575 (mounted Seth Lovers) are NOT tap tuned because of the top mounted humbuckers.

 

My Blonde Golden Eagle with the floating pickup IS TAP TUNED.

 

Tap tuning brings out all the frequencies and also gives a nice even note response accross all strings (from low E to High E.... thus the tap "tuning" name). This even response is VERY evident when it is amplified.

 

Tap tuned guitar are LOUDER acoustically (any humbucker mounted archtop is NOT tap tuned, unless requested/paid extra for and even this is redundant with the humbucker decreasing the vibration of the top & muting the acoustic properties).

 

I love the sound of my Florintine GE & 575 amplified, but the best tone amplified for string balance is my tap tuned Blonde GE.

 

The Blonde GE (tap tuned) also initially gives the impression it is brighter amplified, but this is only because it doesn't have the powerful humbucker powering it.

 

Which of my archtops is the best/my favorite..... all of them. It would be like choosing which is my favorite son!!!

 

Have you compared your tap tuned GE to a non-tap tuned GE?

[MartyGrass]

This is fun to talk about but I doubt anyone on this forum can provide irrefutable evidence on the effect of tap tuning on the amplified sound. I don't doubt that some are convinced of this, but it's hard to prove.

 

First, guitar and pickup designs are different. So you need to compare the same guitar model and pickup model. Next, woods and magnets age, so that has to be accounted for. Next, strings age. Next, woods are not the same. Aaron Cowles is adamant about that. The same design, carve, pickup and strings produce different tones based on the resonance of an individual piece of wood. Lastly, no two guitars are tap tuned the same. It takes years to develop that skill and art, and the outcome on each guitar is different.

 

So with all of these variables, it is confounding to make an objectively based conclusion. But strong opinions are fair game and these are frequently correct.

 

I believe there is a difference between tap tuned and not tap tuned archtops acoustically. I have played enough of them to be convinced. These were tuned by Cowles and Benedetto, so they had been working on their tap tuning for decades before creating the instruments I've heard and were at the peak of their game. It makes sense that these differences would be transmitted through the pickup to some degree. Proving it is another story.

[DetroitBlues]

This is fun to talk about but I doubt anyone on this forum can provide irrefutable evidence on the effect of tap tuning on the amplified sound. I don't doubt that some are convinced of this, but it's hard to prove.

 

First, guitar and pickup designs are different. So you need to compare the same guitar model and pickup model. Next, woods and magnets age, so that has to be accounted for. Next, strings age. Next, woods are not the same. Aaron Cowles is adamant about that. The same design, carve, pickup and strings produce different tones based on the resonance of an individual piece of wood. Lastly, no two guitars are tap tuned the same. It takes years to develop that skill and art, and the outcome on each guitar is different.

 

So with all of these variables, it is confounding to make an objectively based conclusion. But strong opinions are fair game and these are frequently correct.

 

I believe there is a difference between tap tuned and not tap tuned archtops acoustically. I have played enough of them to be convinced. These were tuned by Cowles and Benedetto, so they had been working on their tap tuning for decades before creating the instruments I've heard and were at the peak of their game. It makes sense that these differences would be transmitted through the pickup to some degree. Proving it is another story.

 

So if I'm playing a solid body electric guitar with a octive, fuzz, tremolo, and reverb pedals running in front of a high gain amp, it doesn't make a difference?

[Jazzpunk]

I don't think it's a big deal and certainly nothing for blues rockers to fret over!

[Kuz]

 

Have you compared your tap tuned GE to a non-tap tuned GE?

 

Well, if you compare my Tap tuned Blonde Golden Eagle to my non-tap tuned Florentine Golden Eagle.... yes, I have.

 

[DetroitBlues]

Well, if you compare my Tap tuned Blonde Golden Eagle to my non-tap tuned Florentine Golden Eagle.... yes, I have.

 

Awesome. Not many of us can actually have an opportunity to try both of those at the same time to hear the difference for ourselves. Really cool

[SouthpawGuy]

What can I say .... slow day on the HOC

[koula901]

I've seen it on the website, I've heard people talk about it. I think I've even tried it once...

 

 

But what is TAP TUNING?

 

It's when you tap dance, as you tune your guitar.

[DetroitBlues]

 

It's when you tap dance, as you tune your guitar.

 

That's what I was doing, but couldn't hear the difference.

[ThroBak]

Aaron Cowles does a great job tap tuning. He used to work for Gibson and tap tuned mandolins and jazz boxes. He has a small shop south of Kalamazoo and makes his own line of hand made guitars called Jubal. I have two of his flattops and they are amazing. Heritage hires him for tap tuning as needed.

[MartyGrass]

Here's an example of Aaron's detailed work. I have mixed feelings about the guitar. There's so much bling I'm nervous about picking it up. But I love posting pics.

 

 

[DetroitBlues]

Here's an example of Aaron's detailed work. I have mixed feelings about the guitar. There's so much bling I'm nervous about picking it up. But I love posting pics.

 

 

 

I feel the same way about KBP810 Custom 157! But your's is another thing of beauty all on its own! 8 ply binding??? Holy cow!