Seeking advice for a1988 HFT 445

[MarkR]

I bought a brand new Heritage HFT 445 in 1988 from a music shop (Rock Bottom, if anyone's interested) in Croydon, London. The serial number is E06203. It was meant to be a replacement for a Yamaha FG 335 ii that I'd got from the same shop four years earlier.

 

However (and hence the point of this post), for some reason the Heritage never sounded as good as the Yamaha: it was muddy, mute, dead, very hard to play properly (despite the much thinner neck), no matter what strings I put on it. So around 10 years ago, I put it in storage (in a hard case in the garage) and forgot about it.

 

A few days ago we had some friends over, two of whom are good guitar players. With one guitar missing, I decided to get the Heritage out of storage, clean it up and restring it (Martin lites). Same result: the sound is dead, nowhere near as good as the much cheaper Yamaha.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what might be wrong? It's still in almost perfect condition (I can post pictures here if necessary). There was some grime between the frets, but I managed to get most of it off (and it wasn't there when first purchased). The only obvious "this may be the problem" issue is the string height, but I'm not entirely sure that this would account for the really muddy sound.

 

Any help would be very much appreciated.

[zydecosoultrain]

Hi Mark,

I bought a Heritage H-535 from an online importer of second hand US guitars. Like in the UK I guess, there's it's hard to find a heritage guitar. The guitar arrived in diabolical condition with a nut that had been damaged to the point where the unwound strings hit the fretboard at the second fret and the fretboard was so dry that i thought it was at the point of cracking. I reconditioned the fretboard then took the guitar to a luthier who said that the construction materials, including the nut, were high quality and therefore repairable. She was able to repair the nut and set the guitar up it up. One thing that the luthier did that seemed a little different to other 335 type guitar setups that I've seen was to raise the height of the tonepros bridge to the maximum height so that the strings crossed the bridge with a very minor angle. The setup cost $85 AUD and the guitar has played beautifully for 7 years now with only minor setups, maintenance by myself. I found the Heritage to be monumental improvement in resonance and and much more comfortable to play compared to the Ibanez AS80 that I'd had until then.

Good luck with it Mark, Maybe there's hope yet for your Heritage 535.

Greg

[yoslate]

Good advice from zydeco on having a good luthier do a setup (maybe a new bone nut and saddle, tweak of the truss rod). Also, they don't age well, sitting in a case. Guitars were meant to be played. Wood's got to move (vibrate, resonate). I've always left my acoustics out (no kids nor dogs) on a stand, in front of my stereo speakers. Anytime I'm playing music, a cd or vinyl, my acoustics are jumping. They seem to love it. Good luck!

[DetroitBlues]

Acoustics are a different animal. That is a very rare guitar you have, so its a collectors keeper guitar. That's good advice to have a luthier check it out. Dumb question, is there anything inside the body of the guitar that was used during shipping way back in 88?

[chico]

Let me know if you decide to part w/it!

 

I have a C (1985) HFT445 and it is without a doubt the guitar of my dreams. Has a nice earthy tone, plunks out real well..in fact, just stuck some new Martin strings (11's) on it tonight.

 

That is not to say they all sound the same. I noticed at the PSPVI, during the rainbow bridge acoustic jam where there were other 445's in attendance that were not as bright (if that is the right word, no slam on any other 445), but that could be from a variety of reasons.

 

FYI, I keep mine out and ready to play at a moments notice, which is whenever a song comes on the stream I listen to that I wanna play along with. Only exception is wintertime, with the furnace running I keep it in the case, humidified. Suggest you keep it out of the garage, let it breathe.

 

Like I say, don't want it, lemme know.

 

maybe I'll get around to laying down some samples for you in a day or two and upload them for you to hear the tone, stay tuned.

 

BTW, I came into my 445 after getting my first acoustic, yes, a YAMAHA that meant more to me as sentimental value than because it sounded great, though it wasn't a "bad" sounding or playing guitar-- it was one of the early Yamaha's that came to the market back in the late 60's. But once I got the 445, I forgot about the Yamaha pretty quick.

 

Also, mine was a factory reject, with a broken neck re-glued (and stronger than before), and a couple splits in the spruce along the seam, which also enhances the tone IMO. It was laying around the factory at Kzoo, unstrung and unbuffed. When I cryed to Jim D at Heritage about my predicament, he made me a great deal on that axe. Boy do I feel like a lucky guy, even though market value is low for this particular axe due to the "defects"

 

Great to hear from you, there are any number of HOC'ers whod give an arm and leg for that axe!

[DetroitBlues]

My only acoustic is a rather sad, Ibanez Performance Series from 2002. I got it new and played the heck out of it. I used to use Martin strings, but they rust quickly and go dead in a month. I switched strings to Cleartones and the projection and string life is 10x better than Martin strings. I've compared the tone and project of my Ibanez to a Gibson Songwriter Deluxe and a Taylor 314. The Ibanez sounded better which I attribute to the strings. I never thought strings would make such a difference, but Cleartones are the real deal!

[MarkR]

Thanks for all the advice, guys. Much appreciated. I'll have the guitar checked out by my local luthier.

 

If you have a look at the attached pics, you'll see that everything (machine heads, bridge, pegs, etc) is original and it's looking a little worn in places, which makes me think I actually played it more than I remember!

 

There's no packaging or anything thing inside the body, Detroit. But hidden inside the guitar case was the original Heritage Guitars, Inc warranty card, plus a beer-stained set list from the early 1990s. So I must have played it live a few times, at least. But everyone is right: I need to play it more. That's possibly one of the reasons the Yamaha sounds so good: I've been playing it for 27 years.

[MarkR]

My only acoustic is a rather sad, Ibanez Performance Series from 2002. I got it new and played the heck out of it. I used to use Martin strings, but they rust quickly and go dead in a month. I switched strings to Cleartones and the projection and string life is 10x better than Martin strings. I've compared the tone and project of my Ibanez to a Gibson Songwriter Deluxe and a Taylor 314. The Ibanez sounded better which I attribute to the strings. I never thought strings would make such a difference, but Cleartones are the real deal!

 

The best acoustic strings I've ever used are Elixirs. They sound fantastic and last for ages.

[DetroitBlues]

 

The best acoustic strings I've ever used are Elixirs. They sound fantastic and last for ages.

 

I've heard they sound great, but feel almost waxy because of the coatings. The Cleartones don't feel coated. They feel like normal strings.

[tulk1]

Sometimes, at no fault to the builders, suppliers, etc. you get a guitar that just doesn't have it. It's the inverse of finding the cheap, run of the mill guitar that sounds fantastic. It's going to happen. We know the builder of the body (Jean Larrivee) knows how to build acoustic guitars. And we know the boys at the 'zoo know how to build guitars - they build them for a lot more than just Heritage. But! wood being wood it is going to happen that the sum of the parts just doesn't add up, sometimes. I do agree that a visit to a good luthier should get the most out of the potential of that guitar, tho'. Just trying to be realistic. Hope my synopsis is not the case, tho'.

[FredZepp]

I've got a bunch of acoustics... I love playing them. But each has a different voice.

The old D-35 that I've had since the mid 70's has the deepest tone. Booming and with deep resonance...it's not my favorite for everything,but I appreciate how well it does what it does. It is very different from other dreadnaughts that I have.

 

That Heritage of yours has some great looking spruce on top, a good set up will assure that it's at it's best. It may be just a much different tone than the Yamaha that you have.

[Blunote]

 

The best acoustic strings I've ever used are Elixirs. They sound fantastic and last for ages.

I have two acoustics; a Blueridge fashioned after the Martin OM and a Gibson Jumbo (Variant of the J-180). The Blueridge is smaller bodied Spruce/Mahogany, and the Gibby is Spruce/Rosewood. For one reason or another the Elixers (I use thinner coated Nanowebs) really bring out the deep bell like tones that fat bottomed Jumbo is capable of while they don't sound good to me on the smaller bodied OM. For that one, I've settled on D'Addario Phosphor Bronze. They seem to tame the natural brightness of that guitar.

 

Point is, the strings you use can make a big difference in how bright, mellow, or lively the guitar sounds.

[bolero]

I'm a big fan of elixir strings too, good choice in my books!

 

I've also owned & played a lot of Larivee guitars, they are indeed top notch and I would be surprised if they ever put out any mediocre bodies for the boys at Heritage

 

however wood is wood, and every piece is different & interacts with other parts of the guitar in a unique way, which is why they all sound different

 

 

I would bring it to a VERY GOOD luthier to check out....maybe the bridge is loose, or the saddle on the bridge might have a gap underneath it, which you can't see...a good luthier would give it a thorough investigation. check the bracing as well

 

a popular upgrade is to install bone nut & saddle, ppl seem to think they sound better

[FredZepp]

For one reason or another the Elixers (I use thinner coated Nanowebs) really bring out the deep bell like tones that fat bottomed Jumbo is capable of while they don't sound good to me on the smaller bodied OM. For that one, I've settled on D'Addario Phosphor Bronze. They seem to tame the natural brightness of that guitar.

 

Point is, the strings you use can make a big difference in how bright, mellow, or lively the guitar sounds.

I agree.. I've had good luck with the Nanoweb Elixers.. thinner coating and all... They still last a long time.

[FredZepp]

 

 

 

I would bring it to a VERY GOOD luthier to check out....maybe the bridge is loose, or the saddle on the bridge might have a gap underneath it, which you can't see...a good luthier would give it a thorough investigation. check the bracing as well

 

a popular upgrade is to install bone nut & saddle, ppl seem to think they sound better

I was thinking about the bridge also.... a gap underneath the bridge is an interesting possibility.

[smurph1]

 

I've heard they sound great, but feel almost waxy because of the coatings. The Cleartones don't feel coated. They feel like normal strings.

I've been interested in Cleartones for a while now..May have to try a set after my Elixirs wear out..Probably a year or so..LOL

[GuitArtMan]

I used to work at a music store in the late '70s early '80s and we sold a bunch of the Yamaha FG-365s, in-fact I bought one myself. They were all very high quality for the price and occasionally one would come through that was expectional (the one I bought). The Yamaha may have been inexpensive but it was in no way cheap.

[MarkR]

maybe I'll get around to laying down some samples for you in a day or two and upload them for you to hear the tone, stay tuned.

That would be great, Chico.

[MarkR]

I would bring it to a VERY GOOD luthier to check out....maybe the bridge is loose, or the saddle on the bridge might have a gap underneath it, which you can't see...a good luthier would give it a thorough investigation. check the bracing as well

I may have just had a eureka moment. The intricate little castellated supports that run around the inner bottom section of the soundboard are almost packed solid with dust and grime. There's a lot of gunge around the rest of the lower part of the soundboard as well. I'm pretty sure that must be the cause of the muddy sound. Will find out tomorrow!

[brentrocks]

 

The best acoustic strings I've ever used are Elixirs. They sound fantastic and last for ages.

i like Elixers but i just put a set of EXPs on my 445 and i like them even better.

 

[High Flying Bird]

Heritage guitars are deeper in tone than most acoustics I have played. I like DR phosphor bronze but I doubt the tone in totally relying on the strings here. You may just not like the deeper ring of a Heritage acoustic. Like it was said earlier in the post, if you want to get rid of it you should have no problem on this site.

 

I did sell my 445. Because after getting the 475 I knew I wouldn't play it much.

 

[MarkR]

That is one great looking guitar!

 

I don't want to get rid of my 445. I'm going to persevere with my attempts at bringing it back to life. This afternoon I air sprayed the deep inside of the sound board and then vacuumed it with a 2200 watt AEG Maximus. And it made a difference -- the guitar definitely sounds better. As far as I can see, the only remaining problem is the action: it starts getting far too high after the fifth or sixth fret. I'm not entirely sure how to fix that: do I lower the saddle or tweak the truss rod?

[Blunote]

Maybe

That is one great looking guitar!

 

I don't want to get rid of my 445. I'm going to persevere with my attempts at bringing it back to life. This afternoon I air sprayed the deep inside of the sound board and then vacuumed it with a 2200 watt AEG Maximus. And it made a difference -- the guitar definitely sounds better. As far as I can see, the only remaining problem is the action: it starts getting far too high after the fifth or sixth fret. I'm not entirely sure how to fix that: do I lower the saddle or tweak the truss rod?

 

Maybe both. But seriously, after all these years, take it to a luthier or tech and have it professionally set up. If it's been stored long term under full tension, the top could have bellied, or the saddle may have come loose -that happened to me with my first acoustic.

[DetroitBlues]

I've been interested in Cleartones for a while now..May have to try a set after my Elixirs wear out..Probably a year or so..LOL

 

I had mentioned once on Gibson's forum ( long before I became a HOC member!) about how much I like Cleartones. A few days later, Cleartone contacted me and sent me six sets of strings for being so positive about them. I've never had that happen before but it goes to show what kind of company they are.

[DetroitBlues]

That is one great looking guitar!

 

I don't want to get rid of my 445. I'm going to persevere with my attempts at bringing it back to life. This afternoon I air sprayed the deep inside of the sound board and then vacuumed it with a 2200 watt AEG Maximus. And it made a difference -- the guitar definitely sounds better. As far as I can see, the only remaining problem is the action: it starts getting far too high after the fifth or sixth fret. I'm not entirely sure how to fix that: do I lower the saddle or tweak the truss rod?

 

Always look for a truss rod fix before messing with the saddle. Truss rods are adjustable and are free. Saddles can be shaved down but you have to replace it after that. If its not a truss rod fix, a luthier should be called in before you look at messing with the saddle.