MartyGrass Posted September 22, 2011 Posted September 22, 2011 I've seen this a lot on Heritages. I don't remember noticing it on a Gibson before. The favorite spot for them to break is the neck pup on the bridge side of the ring. The second most popular is the bridge pup ring on the neck side of it. In a way, it's not a big deal. The ring can be replaced pretty easily. It really doesn't even need to be replaced. Any theories on why this happens?
yoslate Posted September 22, 2011 Posted September 22, 2011 They break because, before installation, the rings are not correctly radius-ed to the top. When they're screwed down, at the corners, the stress is on the ring in those spots which always seem to snap, which are also where the plastic is thinnest, thus, they break. Rings can be radius-ed by unstringing the guitar and taping a piece of fine sandpaper to the top, where the ring will be placed. The ring may then be sanded by moving it gently, along the axis of the neck, until the curvature of the top is present in the underside of the ring. They don't need to be screwed down very tightly, at all, either.
SouthpawGuy Posted September 22, 2011 Posted September 22, 2011 My 1990 LP Std developed the cracked neck ring. So far none of my Heritages have.
H Posted September 22, 2011 Posted September 22, 2011 They break because, before installation, the rings are not correctly radius-ed to the top. When they're screwed down, at the corners, the stress is on the ring in those spots which always seem to snap, which are also where the plastic is thinnest, thus, they break. Rings can be radius-ed by unstringing the guitar and taping a piece of fine sandpaper to the top, where the ring will be placed. The ring may then be sanded by moving it gently, along the axis of the neck, until the curvature of the top is present in the underside of the ring. They don't need to be screwed down very tightly, at all, either. Your luthier master has taught you well, apprentice Rob
MartyGrass Posted September 22, 2011 Author Posted September 22, 2011 I believe you are right about radiusing. The rings have to be hand fitted if the tops vary.
yoslate Posted September 22, 2011 Posted September 22, 2011 Thinking about doing a very informal blog here, Howard. I don't claim to know very much at all, and what I'm learning at Tom's, working with him two days a week, is amazing. I do very little besides watch, ask questions and take notes. I've been around guitars all my life. It's amazing how many misconceptions, and how much lack of understanding of so many things I've labored under! The organic nature of an instrument, the interrelatedness of nearly everything about one is stunning. And to watch Tom address any one issue, in any one guitar, is to watch him look at a half dozen other things.
H Posted September 22, 2011 Posted September 22, 2011 Thinking about doing a very informal blog here, Howard. I don't claim to know very much at all, and what I'm learning at Tom's, working with him two days a week, is amazing. I do very little besides watch, ask questions and take notes. I've been around guitars all my life. It's amazing how many misconceptions, and how much lack of understanding of so many things I've labored under! The organic nature of an instrument, the interrelatedness of nearly everything about one is stunning. And to watch Tom address any one issue, in any one guitar, is to watch him look at a half dozen other things. I for one would look forward to that, Rob. The quality of your writing is evident, as is your ability to make a point clearly and concisely. I have always been interested in the technical nature of musical equipment and instruments as well as playing and hearing them. For me it's not only 'just play the f**king thing' but also 'take the b*st*rd to bits and reassemble it with nothing left over'
pushover Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Yoslate is, of course, right, but what he'd didn't say is that the reason the PUP rings break is because they're made of plastic, and because over time plastic degrades and becomes brittle. So while you can bend the plastic somewhat when it is new, when it's older if you try the same amount of bending it will crack. This is pretty much the case with all plastic items, not just PUP rings. So as Rob says, if you don't properly radius the PUP ring when you screw it down, you've essentially bent it some to fit the contour of the body. As it dries out and becomes brittle the fact that it was mounted with a bend, causes it to crack. If the ring had been properly radiused when it was installed, there would be no bend to it, and no stress, and hence would be much less likely to break even though it's become brittle. Maybe this clarification was totally obvious, but then again maybe not.
MartyGrass Posted September 23, 2011 Author Posted September 23, 2011 When you say that it dries out, I don't think you mean water. There must be volatiles in the plastic. I posted this because one of my 2010 H150s just popped its ring. No one was doing anything to it when it happened. Of course the ring could have been old when it was installed.
pushover Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 When you say that it dries out, I don't think you mean water. There must be volatiles in the plastic. To be honest, I've pretty much reached my level of incompetence on this topic, but plastics contain a Plasticiser which makes them flexible. Over time it can "evaporate" from the surface of the plastic, which is "I guess" what I meant by "dry out". Enclosed is a random link I found that seems to support the fact that I'm not completely making this up. http://www.cci-icc.gc.ca/crc/notes/html/15-1-eng.aspx Maybe others know more about this? As for your particular issue, a ring breaking on such a new instrument seems unusual, but if it wasn't radiused then it's been under stress the whole time. It could have been a flawed ring to begin with, or as you say it could be an old ring since the plastics don't usually show their age visually.
Fernando Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Thinking about doing a very informal blog here, Howard. I don't claim to know very much at all, and what I'm learning at Tom's, working with him two days a week, is amazing. I do very little besides watch, ask questions and take notes. I've been around guitars all my life. It's amazing how many misconceptions, and how much lack of understanding of so many things I've labored under! The organic nature of an instrument, the interrelatedness of nearly everything about one is stunning. And to watch Tom address any one issue, in any one guitar, is to watch him look at a half dozen other things. Rob, I am looking forward to your informal blog. I am very interested in the kind of information you mentioned. Count on me to be an avid reader.
schundog Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Rob, I am looking forward to your informal blog. I am very interested in the kind of information you mentioned. Count on me to be an avid reader. +1
mark555 Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 I have seen many Gibson's with split pick up surrounds where the screws are, just a sign of aging.
barrymclark Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 To add to the bad radius cut, another thing adding to the issue that I have seen is the four screws. When I got rid of the two a side adjusters and just had one a side, the cracking problem stopped. I went through 2 sets of rings before I made that change. What seems to be happening is that the four screws are torquing the ring and the thinnest usually is the ring to suffer. Made sense to me and the fix I had for it seemed to clear it up.
tbonesullivan Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 my H150 has a broken ring. Neck side of neck pickup. I'm just too lazy to get a new ring and radius it. It doesn't look like it was radiused at all before installation. Also, it has the three holes on each side, but it's got a SD '59 in it, so there is no torquing.
barrymclark Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 my H150 has a broken ring. Neck side of neck pickup. I'm just too lazy to get a new ring and radius it. It doesn't look like it was radiused at all before installation. Also, it has the three holes on each side, but it's got a SD '59 in it, so there is no torquing. Hmmm. don't know what to say then. Just that it seemed to fix mine.
tbonesullivan Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 mine came that way when I got it used from Wolfe. It doesn't get in the way, so I just ignore it.
Trouble Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 Rob, I am looking forward to your informal blog. I am very interested in the kind of information you mentioned. Count on me to be an avid reader. I would enjoy it verymuch as well.
bolero Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 I've had them break on G's and H's, I think a combo of not-exact fit to the top radius plus aging & brittle plastic is what does it I've always wanted to get some maple or ebony rings to replace to cheap plastic things anyway, has anyone ever seen a soure for them? I'm sure they would outlast plastic...and look cooler as well. whether there are tonal advantages to using wood who knows
H Posted September 25, 2011 Posted September 25, 2011 I've always wanted to get some maple or ebony rings to replace to cheap plastic things anyway, has anyone ever seen a soure for them? I'm sure they would outlast plastic...and look cooler as well. whether there are tonal advantages to using wood who knows Here you go: a wooden pickup ring supplier who also has a big homepage spiel about all their advantages Let us know how you get on!
bolero Posted September 25, 2011 Posted September 25, 2011 is there supposed to be a link there? or are you suggesting I start my own business
MartyGrass Posted September 25, 2011 Author Posted September 25, 2011 Here's a site. http://reedjamescustom.com/index.html
H Posted September 25, 2011 Posted September 25, 2011 is there supposed to be a link there? or are you suggesting I start my own business Sheesh! What am I like? http://www.pickuprings.com/
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