DetroitBlues Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 There are so many things that can go wrong, but I think nothing is worse than a blown tube. Fortunately, the only time I've had an issue with a tube is at home. But it brings a real question to mind that I do not see regularly discussed on any forum. I think its safe to say most, if not all, of us on here are tube amp snobs. There are a few Roland and other modeling amp users here, but almost everyone has or wants a tube amp. But as I discovered, tubes are one of the hardest things to find that are of high quality and reliability. So here's my question, what kind of tubes to you use and where do you get them? Nows here's the kicker, sooner or later NOS tubes will be gone or too expensive to find. So what NEW tubes do you use, why do you like them, and where do you get them? I want to get a set or two of tubes for my amp to have just in case.
kbp810 Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Well... I could probably go on for ever and ever regarding my thoughts on the matter... but here's a quick few thoughts off the top of my head. Preamps are where NOS/ANOS can be the biggest crap-shoot... unless you are prepared to pay the premium that comes with buying from a reliable vendor (KCA for example), deals found on the likes of forums and Ebay are likely to come with significant risk (you got to think... they are probably selling them for a reason, and it's probably not because of something like needing to fix their car like the ad says!). I've been lured a few times by good prices and promises of "low noise/microphonics", "tests new", etc... only to get burned. All the above set aside, I am still hooked on NOS tubes For modern production preamps - cheap and safe is the Sovtek 12ax7wa's, they are consistently low noise/microphonics, good for clean channel stages and phase inverter... though in some cases they can sound a little "vanilla". The Sovtek 12ax7lps is also on the affordable and safe bet side, and good for OD channels, or higher gain spots. Though my personal preference has typically been the Tung-Sol or Mullard re-issues. The only modern preamps I stay away from are JJ's... don't even get me started on JJ preamps!!!! (though I do like JJ power tubes) Lot's of good sources online for modern production tubes... I usually go through Tubedepot.com Power tubes are generally a much safer bet... when it comes to simply working vs not working that is. Sure the same above caveats apply, but there's a much better chance that you can put them into your amp and it's going to "function properly". Now whether or not they will last and/or will sound fantastic is of course another story....
schundog Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 I, for one, would be interested in having you elaborate in your disdain for JJ preamplifier tubes, Brian! I redid my peavey C30 with ALL JJ tubes, and so far so good, but it doesn't get used a ton. I sincerely respect your opinion, and would like to hear it.
212Mavguy Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 I have acquired a few hundred vintage, used, tubes, primarily through ebay. Sitting presently at 500 transactions 3 out of 4 have been good ones. I have only five Heritage guitars, all but one have been ebay transactions. But buying from ebay is not for the uninformed. To my ears, Sovtek 12ax7's sound tinny and harsh, as my least liked 12ax7. Their gain factor hs been repeatedly reported in print to be nearer 70 than 100, so with that number, which is in 5751 territory, I'd rather shop for vintage 5751's. Have no experience with the Sovtek LPS series, have heard good things about their tones. Green or white print GE 5751's offer a wonderful vintage tube value, even today. JJ's? I like their power tubes better than their pre's. I think that the Electro-Harmonix 12ax7's are more girthy in their sound, more pleasing to my ears than Sovteks. Tung Sol reissue 12ax7's are not on my purchase plan, they bear zero resemblance in construction or tone to the real, vintage ones. What I find fascinating on the tube thang is how different tubes sound better in certain circuits than others, as well as their position in a given circuit, such as first, following a first, or in the case of Push Pull amp designs, (the overwhelming majority in guitar amps), the Phase Inverter position. That reason alone is compelling for a tone junke to build up a tube collection for each type used in that person's amp or amp collection. Listening for the tonal difference in given tube types really, really trains the ears for tone discernment. Also, my taste in desired tones has changed over the last few years, so I have gone back to some of my amps and changed an amp's tube selections to reflect those changing tastes. Again, another reason to build up a nice tube quiver. Do you think that an accomplished oil painter owns just a few tubes of paint? And since the amp plays such a huge part in the sound of an electric guitar, it helps to learn as much as possible about the many items comprising that part of a player's tone chain, and as significantly large in importance the actual amp is, how little most electric players delve deeply into that admittedly complex, but highly impactful (to one's overall sound) topic. The choices of tube-age is an area of good effect! Boutique amps for boutique guitars!
H Posted October 16, 2011 Posted October 16, 2011 I've tried TAD, Sovtek, JJ and Electro Harmonix tubes in my 5E3. The EH tubes stayed in. I've kept the TAD tubes as spares. I buy from Watford Valves in the UK. They don't appeal to everyone but they've been fine for me.
kbp810 Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 I, for one, would be interested in having you elaborate in your disdain for JJ preamplifier tubes, Brian! I redid my peavey C30 with ALL JJ tubes, and so far so good, but it doesn't get used a ton. I sincerely respect your opinion, and would like to hear it. Well, it has less to do with their musical quality and more to do with outright failures - nothing quite as frustrating as testing a new amp build and have it go suddenly haywire only to find a preamp tube with the white tip of death (meaning air got inside the tube allowing it to burn up). It's happened to me three times with three different brand new out of the box JJ 12ax7's. (all at different times, so not choking it up to just a single bad batch!). After the third time, I decided to throw in the towel on them.
schundog Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Well, it has less to do with their musical quality and more to do with outright failures - nothing quite as frustrating as testing a new amp build and have it go suddenly haywire only to find a preamp tube with the white tip of death (meaning air got inside the tube allowing it to burn up). It's happened to me three times with three different brand new out of the box JJ 12ax7's. (all at different times, so not choking it up to just a single bad batch!). After the third time, I decided to throw in the towel on them. Yowza! That IS a string of bad luck; Part of the reason I asked is that I just bought a complete retube set of JJs for my Blues Junior, although I haven't tried them yet... Now I'm scared to!
pegleg32 Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Howard mentioned he likes the electro-harmonics tubes. Any other opinons on them? I have a set in my Carr Rambler which I really like, and I am now considering buying a set for my Redplate amp. Any other suggestions?
Hfan Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 I have very little experience buying tubes but have had luck with JJ power tubes and Electro Harmonix 12ax7 pre amps.
rjsanders Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 using a mix of E-H, JJ, Tung-Sol. but i replace tubes so rarely that when it's time, i'll give the builder a call and ask him what's the current <pun alert> best bet. in my case that'd be Gary Croteau (Juke) or Paul Cochrane (Heritage)... posting a query on TGP usually generates light amidst the inevitable heat, too - often from prominent builders
zguitar71 Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 I called Carr Amps and talked to one of the tech guys (actually a seperate buisness from Carr) when I was retubing my Slant 6V. They suggested not to use JJ tubes all together due to the tone and the quality. So I stayed away from them, did some research and went with Tung-Sol for the 6v6 and 12ax7 and EH for the 12at7 and a Sovtech for the 5ar4 rectifier. I replaced the Sino (Chinese) 5ar4 and all the other Phillips JAN nos tubes I had in the amp. The tone is just as good as it was when I first started playing the JAN tubes. Of course over time the JAN tubes lost their tone which is hard to notice because it creeps up on you but the new tubes brought it back to its old glory. BTW I used the JAN tubes for 10 years. I went with Tung-Sol to decrease the head room, which they did, but it is still too loud on 18 watts to to crank all the way up in a midium size club and not get yelled at by the soundguy. I have a Tung- Sol 6v6 and an EH 12ax7 and an RCA NOS 5y3 (lifted out of an old 75 rpm record player) in my `76 Champ and it sounds great. I ran a Sovtech 5ar4 for a while but the 6v6 tube life could be measured in minutes, but the searing tone..... With the 5y3 the sound is glassy and actually much better but not as distorted, the 5ar4 was only good at full tilt. I would like to try some nos tubes in the champ and compare, if I do I will post about it. I could not afford fancy tubes in the Carr due to the amount of tubes but with 1 nos in place and only 2 other tube needed it might be possible with the Champ.
LK155 Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 My experience with Electro Harmonix: A couple of years ago I had a Traynor YCV20WR combo. 2xEL84, 4x12AX7, 12" Greenback. It came new from the factory with Sovteks in all sockets. Lived with the sound for several months and finally got tired of the lack of bottom end. It could blow the walls down (not high on my priority list), but the thing just sounded thin. I replaced every tube with EH. Big difference! Amp sounded much better. A fuller, richer, more 'musical' sound (what a concept!). Well worth the $80 or so it cost. I think I've read that the EH tubes come from the same plant in Russia as do the Sovteks. But in terms of sound quality, the EH tubes blew the Sovteks away.
Guest HRB853370 Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 There are so many things that can go wrong, but I think nothing is worse than a blown tube. Fortunately, the only time I've had an issue with a tube is at home. But it brings a real question to mind that I do not see regularly discussed on any forum. I think its safe to say most, if not all, of us on here are tube amp snobs. There are a few Roland and other modeling amp users here, but almost everyone has or wants a tube amp. But as I discovered, tubes are one of the hardest things to find that are of high quality and reliability. So here's my question, what kind of tubes to you use and where do you get them? Nows here's the kicker, sooner or later NOS tubes will be gone or too expensive to find. So what NEW tubes do you use, why do you like them, and where do you get them? I want to get a set or two of tubes for my amp to have just in case. I get em down at Walmart in the electronics department.....or Radio Shack if WM is out of them.
bolero Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 walmart!! lol I use the winged C /ex-svetlana's, I like their 6L6 & EL34 power tubes a lot
pegleg32 Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 I wanted to thank everyone for the great input on tubes. That really helps me out with my current problem. Always great advice from the guys on HOC.
smurph1 Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 I, for one, would be interested in having you elaborate in your disdain for JJ preamplifier tubes, Brian! I redid my peavey C30 with ALL JJ tubes, and so far so good, but it doesn't get used a ton. I sincerely respect your opinion, and would like to hear it. Just my 2 cents here, but I'm using Peavey Factory tubes in my C-30 except for the first pre-amp position which blew this summer and I replaced with a local music store tube that cost me about 15 bucks..and I get lots of compliments on the tone of the amp..Or maybe it's the 535..I dunno..YMMV..Scott
Hfan Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 Just my 2 cents here, but I'm using Peavey Factory tubes in my C-30 except for the first pre-amp position which blew this summer and I replaced with a local music store tube that cost me about 15 bucks..and I get lots of compliments on the tone of the amp..Or maybe it's the 535..I dunno..YMMV..Scott AKA don't fix it if it aint broke. Read somewhere that general quality of tubes (new) is much worse than back in the day. Much less demand other than guys like us (and gals sorry).
smurph1 Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 AKA don't fix it if it aint broke. Read somewhere that general quality of tubes (new) is much worse than back in the day. Much less demand other than guys like us (and gals sorry). Yeppy...
TalismanRich Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 I've read all kinds of things about how new tubes suck, and you have to buy NOS etc etc. I take the majority of this with a grain of salt... (or a few boxes) for several reasons. I worry about sellers who have cases of old tubes that they picked up for a song and hype them up as fast as they can mark them up. These have "the sound"! But are these 50 year old tubes really in as good shape as they were when manufactured? There aren't many tube testers out there any more to even check to see if they are in spec. These guys make "American Pickers" look like flea market rookies. Likewise I worry when we have to replace all the caps in our vintage amps because they have started to go bad and leak, yet we buy NOS caps for our guitars that have been sitting in someone's backroom for 50 years without being cycled. Lordy!!! I'm beginning to sound like a grumpy old man!
DetroitBlues Posted October 19, 2011 Author Posted October 19, 2011 I've read all kinds of things about how new tubes suck, and you have to buy NOS etc etc. I take the majority of this with a grain of salt... (or a few boxes) for several reasons. I worry about sellers who have cases of old tubes that they picked up for a song and hype them up as fast as they can mark them up. These have "the sound"! But are these 50 year old tubes really in as good shape as they were when manufactured? There aren't many tube testers out there any more to even check to see if they are in spec. These guys make "American Pickers" look like flea market rookies. Likewise I worry when we have to replace all the caps in our vintage amps because they have started to go bad and leak, yet we buy NOS caps for our guitars that have been sitting in someone's backroom for 50 years without being cycled. Lordy!!! I'm beginning to sound like a grumpy old man! Nah, just someone who feels we shouldn't be paying a premium for something that was as common in a hardware store as a rack of hammers. That's why I brought up this thread. NOS tubes are getting hard to find and expensive. If all the new amp builders (mass produced) are shipping out amps with brand new tubes that sound good, why should we be able to find some reliable tubes that are new, not NOS....
smurph1 Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 I've read all kinds of things about how new tubes suck, and you have to buy NOS etc etc. I take the majority of this with a grain of salt... (or a few boxes) for several reasons. I worry about sellers who have cases of old tubes that they picked up for a song and hype them up as fast as they can mark them up. These have "the sound"! But are these 50 year old tubes really in as good shape as they were when manufactured? There aren't many tube testers out there any more to even check to see if they are in spec. These guys make "American Pickers" look like flea market rookies. Likewise I worry when we have to replace all the caps in our vintage amps because they have started to go bad and leak, yet we buy NOS caps for our guitars that have been sitting in someone's backroom for 50 years without being cycled. Lordy!!! I'm beginning to sound like a grumpy old man! Welcome to the club..
Steiner Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 I've read all kinds of things about how new tubes suck, and you have to buy NOS etc etc. I take the majority of this with a grain of salt... (or a few boxes) for several reasons. I worry about sellers who have cases of old tubes that they picked up for a song and hype them up as fast as they can mark them up. These have "the sound"! But are these 50 year old tubes really in as good shape as they were when manufactured? There aren't many tube testers out there any more to even check to see if they are in spec. These guys make "American Pickers" look like flea market rookies. Likewise I worry when we have to replace all the caps in our vintage amps because they have started to go bad and leak, yet we buy NOS caps for our guitars that have been sitting in someone's backroom for 50 years without being cycled. Lordy!!! I'm beginning to sound like a grumpy old man! I'm right down that alley too TR!
212Mavguy Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 You spends yo money, you takes yo chances...most of the time I have been pleased by my purchases, but then again, I know what to look for in the pics as well as the descriptions on my ebay winnings. Often I find sellers who don't know what they have and get a great deal that way, other opportunites exist where sellers don't end their auctions at ebay primetime, which is Sunday evenings. Often I see tubes listed with labeling different from who actually made them, those sometimes can be great deals. For instance, I picked up a Siemens e83cc used but in great shape from a seller for less than 20 bucks plus shipping within the last couple months, because the well known on ebay seller did not put the name "Siemens" in the description, did not take a close up pic of the acid etch Siemens code on the glass, and the silkscreening for the tube was another brand and did not use the "e83cc" designation in the labeling. Often that tube goes for a c-note or more apiece, even sold as used. They are the king daddy of the Philips family of shortplate 12ax7's, rated for 10,000 hours of use. I instantly recognized it for what it was by looking at the construction of the guts inside the bottle. The label has no relationship the the tone...which to my ears is sensational, and most of the time those tend to not be excessively microphonic.
smurph1 Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 Nah, just someone who feels we shouldn't be paying a premium for something that was as common in a hardware store as a rack of hammers. That's why I brought up this thread. NOS tubes are getting hard to find and expensive. If all the new amp builders (mass produced) are shipping out amps with brand new tubes that sound good, why should we be able to find some reliable tubes that are new, not NOS.... Good Point..Maybe those old tubes were better quality back in the day..But, after 40 years of playing (Sometimes EXTREMELY Loud) Rock and roll..the new tubes sound ok to me..But then again I'm a high school educated Hillbilly..
golferwave Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 I use mostly "Winged C" power tubes and Tung Sol or EH pre-amp tubes. I've also had failures with JJ tubes in both power and pre-amp. The final straw was when I put a matched quad of JJ EL-84 power tubes in my Peavey Delta Blues and watched the bright flash of failure in one of them the instant I turned it on. Bad news, and the end of the line for me buying them.
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