Alternative to Floating #3

[MartyGrass]

One of my archtops with a Floating #3 is a bit muddy. I tried string changes, including steel rounds. The pickup just isn't a good match. Other Floating #3's work well with two other guitars, so I don't think it's a design flaw. And the individual pickup in question was warm and articulate on another Heritage archtop.

 

I can't decide whether to get an Armstrong or a Shadow Zoller floater. Here are two examples of Zollers.

 

 

 

 

 

My question is: Does putting a tone control into the circuit affect output or add filtering when the control is wide open? In other words, when the tone pot is on 10, is the pot effectively bypassed?

 

Thanks.

[byrdland]

The Shadow Attila Zoller pickups are excellent pickups. To my ear, they reproduce the sound of the guitar accurately. I had one of the floating models on an Epiphone archtop. The type of pot that doesn't color the sound on 10 is a "no-load" pot.

[Genericmusic]

Are you (both posts) saying that by adding a tone pot to a #3 PUP that it wil adversely affect the sound fo the PUP and thus the true sound of the guitar?

[MartyGrass]

I'm asking if adding a pot and a cap interferes with output (volume) and will filter frequencies even when the tone pot is on 10.

 

This is not specific to a Floating #3, of course.

 

Quite a few very high end archtops don't put a tone control on the pickguard. This may be simply to do with looking traditional. But maybe there's a circuit concern.

[hinesarchtop]

I had a Golden Eagle with a #3 that I swapped for an Armstrong. The guitar had a factory tone control. This was by far the best pickup I had heard on this model. The tone control, even when up does add a load, so you could experiment with a no load and see which one makes your ears happier.

[hinesarchtop]

I like tone controls even on acoustic archtop. Another pickup that sounded great was the Fralin jazz/blues model. It's a single coil, but man it was sweet. Very vintage sounding.

[Genericmusic]

My reason for asking is simple. I have an Eagle with a Benedetto #3 installed. I am having my luthier do some work on it and decided to have a tone pot added. I thought it would help in reducing some of the feed back at higher volumes. I am very impressed with the Benedetto PUP It is made by Semour Duncan from what I have read. It is essentially a mini-Humbucker. However, if the addition of the tone pot will alter the sound that I have grown accustom too I may have to reconsider.

 

By the way MartyGrass the vids were pretty cool. Thanks for posting them.

[MartyGrass]

I posted this on the Jazz Guitar Forum also.

 

I suspect there is a little loss of high frequencies with the tone control, even at wide open.

 

The other thing I'm starting to wonder about is whether my volume pot is 250K. That seems to have been a popular choice, maybe in an effort to reduce the string squeaking back in the day.

 

I'm at the point where I'd rather not dampen the high frequencies on my archtops at the guitar level. Sometimes I like to bring them out.

[Genericmusic]

I'm at the point where I'd rather not dampen the high frequencies on my archtops at the guitar level. Sometimes I like to bring them out.

 

Hmm, that's a good point to consider.

[Spectrum13]

Try a higher value volume pot. If you have a 250 then a 500 will clean up the mud.

[MartyGrass]

I have the guitar on my bench and can't tell whether it's a 250 or 500.

 

I'm raising the Floating #3 a few millimeters in the meantime, no small feat. It involves epoxy.

[Kuz]

I have a #3 floater with volume and tone controls on the pickguard on my Blonde GE and it sounds incredible. I only use the volume, and most jazz guitarist I talk to leave the tone knob dimed and control the tone via the amp or by lowering the volume on the guitar. By no means have I noticed any high end drop off with vol and tone controls.

[MartyGrass]

Ok, so I found the problem. I have two 15a25k potentiometers. These are 25K.

 

Now I know what to do.

 

That explains the very mellow tone.

 

I do not recommend eliminating 90% of your high frequencies with a 25K filter BTW. The guy who had this guitar before me was obviously nuts. He's an old style bebopper who must have wanted to compete with his bass player for sonic spectrum turf.

 

How strange.

[hinesarchtop]

Oh yeah that will do it. I do prefer 250k pots most of the time with a floater pickup. They are more linear and easier to dial in on the fly.

[MartyGrass]

250K for both pots?

 

What do you suggest for the cap?

[hinesarchtop]

Usually .022's, but I've used .033's that I pulled from an old organ that were good too. Yes, both pots.

[hinesarchtop]

Also, I have a couple of the benedetto pickups floating around and like them. His schematic calls for 250k's. As an alternative.......Gibson utilizes 300k's that work nice and are available at GC.

[Genericmusic]

I erred. I have a Benedetto S6 Jazz Guitar Pickup. It is supposed to reflect the natural figuring of the guitar's tone woods. I gather from what is being stated here (hear?) is that I shouldn't have to worry about adding a tone pot. It shouldn't interfere with the guitar's natural sound.

[Kuz]

I erred. I have a Benedetto S6 Jazz Guitar Pickup. It is supposed to reflect the natural figuring of the guitar's tone woods. I gather from what is being stated here (hear?) is that I shouldn't have to worry about adding a tone pot. It shouldn't interfere with the guitar's natural sound.

 

I just don't think you will ever use the tone pot. Volume pot, absolutely.

[MartyGrass]

Here is the response to the pot replacement question on the Floating #3 from Dr. Vintage:

 

 

YOW! 25k! Okay - I practically UNIVERSALLY recommend 500k pots, and not just because that's what I sell. In MY view, there's no such thing as too much top end. I believe in letting a pickup live with companion pieces that let it's full range be heard - and if there's too much treble in a given situation, THAT'S WHAT THE TONE CONTROL IS FOR! LOL! There are untold vintage Gibson guitars with PAFs or P90 pickups in that resistance range and have 500k pots. So that's what I'd do if that guitar were mine...

 

Rick Norman - 'Dr. Vintage'