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Heritage Owners Club

Annoying getting out of tune


romk

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Posted

Cryoman,

 

I'm always amazed at those photos when you show them--quality work indeed!

 

Is it possible to have a nut cut while it is NOT on the guitar? I was hoping you could cut a few of them for me (for a fee, of course).

 

My H150 and H575 both have that "tink" when tuning, and I think the G, B, & E strings are cut too low.

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Posted

Cryoman, + 98%

 

  But I must add the two points. I do not believe PLEX cuts the nut at all. Reason one, the photos and descriptions of the process I have seen deal with fret leveling and crowning only. Reason two, Graham told me it doesn't and my 150 (2006) was spaced unevenly.

 

Since I don't have your skills and must have this work done, on a new guitar I prefer to wait a couple or three years before replacing the plastic nut with bone. Unless the nuts beyond temporary fixing, a new guitar needs time for the neck to settle in. You can tweak the relief and action as it goes through a few seasons. Depending on the woods quality, neck profile, how well cured and regional and home climate, it might be a few years before its stable.

 

I would not even attempt to remove a virgin nut for fear of cracking the nitro nor attempt to make a new bone jewel like that. Your photos should inspire others to replace factory nuts for reasons of playability, tuneability and as the subject of this post...the yellowing of lacquer as it ages creates cosmetic challenges.           

Posted

From the Plek website:

Plek Pro:

Fret dressing, nut slotting/shaping, saddle trimming, engravings, ...

- computer controlled, high speed, high accuracy - PLEK technology!

 

Plek Station:

Fret dressing, nut slotting/shaping,

saddle trimming, engravings, ...

- computer controlled, high speed, high accuracy - PLEK technology!

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Plek schmeck.  Thank God I found Michael Tuttle and www.bestfrets.com

Posted

Spectrum13,

 

I was surprised myself to learn that the PLEK machines do, in fact, cut nuts.  There is a really cool Youtube video showing this. I can't say whether all who use a PLEK use it to cut the nut but I suspect most do.  The pros & cons of using a PLEK machine to cut the nut is that it does it easily & quickly and accurately but again with the con /  compromise of cutting slots for a variety of string guages...  Another con is that they cannot cut bone as bone tends to chip/splinter when cut quickly with a spiral cutting tool.

 

I wish I could convince you how easy it really is to replace your own nut with bone without fear of damaging your guitar.  I and others have posted before on the step by step procedure for doing this nut replacement.

 

Cheers,  Cryoman

Posted

But does Heritage use the PLEK to cut nuts?  My 150's nut needed replacing with uneven spacing and the 137 had to be shimmed as the G was cut too low. We also have the can't stay in tune threads, the you need to cut a U shape in the slot and the thank god for (name favorite luthier). So do we have marketing spin / technology replacing the skilled luthier and/or it levels frets good but falls short in the nut shaping department. Granted it saves over an hour of factory labor. 

 

  I'm in the PLEK schmek camp. I watched my luthier remove, shim and slot the 137's nut while smoothing the fret ends, leveling and crowing a brand new pleked Heritage. Major improvement. Some nut stuff I can do and I'm OK, but I only considered cutting the blank and replacing. Being obsessive in all things Heritage, having access to a extremely gifted tech is an enjoyable experience and worth $50. Tuning, intonation, cosmetic or playability issues just drive me nuts so I am fortunate having someone more capable.

Posted
But does Heritage use the PLEK to cut nuts?  My 150's nut needed replacing with uneven spacing and the 137 had to be shimmed as the G was cut too low. We also have the can't stay in tune threads, the you need to cut a U shape in the slot and the thank god for (name favorite luthier). So do we have marketing spin / technology replacing the skilled luthier and/or it levels frets good but falls short in the nut shaping department. Granted it saves over an hour of factory labor.   

 

   I'm in the PLEK schmek camp. I watched my luthier remove, shim and slot the 137's nut while smoothing the fret ends, leveling and crowing a brand new pleked Heritage. Major improvement. Some nut stuff I can do and I'm OK, but I only considered cutting the blank and replacing. Being obsessive in all things Heritage, having access to a extremely gifted tech is an enjoyable experience and worth $50. Tuning, intonation, cosmetic or playability issues just drive me nuts so I am fortunate having someone more capable.

I've had three pleked Heritages that were all vastly improved by a trip to Michael Tuttle of bestfrets.com. 

Posted
I've had three pleked Heritages that were all vastly improved by a trip to Michael Tuttle of bestfrets.com. 

 

I'M NOT A GOOD ENOUGH OF A PLAYER TO REALLY TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PLEK VS HAND DONE, BUT I REALLY DID FEEL A DIFFERENCE AFTER PETE DRESSED THE FRETS ON MY 170 AND MADE THE NEW NUT....THE ORIG NUT WAS WACKED OUT BIGTIME

Posted

I lust over his lovely round and polished fret ends. You west coasters are so lucky! Michael Tuttle and Jenna Jameson.

Posted

Hey Thundersteel,

 

I used to think I could cut & shape a new nut from the one you removed (ie I use the old one as a really great template), but after having done about 20 including a Stratocaster and a G&L Legacy (which are curved, small and more difficult) I'm now thinking you just need to do the final tweeking of the nut slots with the actual guitar.  If I had your guitar in hand, I'd make one for you in about 30 minutes, show you everything I know and you and I could tweak it exactly the way you love it. (yes, I'd do it for free, too - and my offer stands for any HOC member who's in Albu-turkey with their guitar in hand...)

 

So...I'm really fearful of committing to doing them without the guitar as I just end up in a long spiral of repeating the work (remotely) until it's right.  I learned this doing the pickguards....just enough difference between each guitar to make it miserable (and hence why I only offer my free, yes, free, pickguards with the owner doing the final hole drilling...)

 

Cheers,  Cryoman

Posted
I lust over his lovely round and polished fret ends. You west coasters are so lucky! Michael Tuttle and Jenna Jameson.

I may be on the west coast but I still ship my guitars to Michael.  We're on opposite ends of the most traveled freeway in the country if not the world.  I'd just as soon leave the driving to UPS of FedEx.  I know of others who have shipped their guitars to him as well.

Posted
(yes, I'd do it for free, too - and my offer stands for any HOC member who's in Albu-turkey with their guitar in hand...)

 

Thanks for the kind offer, though I doubt I'll be in NM anytime soon. Maybe if you ever make a trip to the Gulf Coast?  :P

 

Stew-Mac has some tools and videos I've been thinking about getting--whaddyathink?

Posted
Stew-Mac has some tools and videos I've been thinking about getting--whaddyathink?

 

Give yourself one good reason not to, T-steel....  How satisfying would it be to be able to do that kind of work on your own instruments, knowing the results are significant to the playability and sound of the guitar?  Cryoman's pictures make a pretty compelling case, too.  Just this morning, before I left for work, I spent a little time with several of my guitars, in particular noticing the beautiful bone nuts Tom has done on my ASAT, LP, and 150, and that those guitars never ping and sound great and play particularly well!  Tom has promised to teach me how to do it, maybe this summer, and I can hardly wait to be able to do my own!

Posted

Well, my B-day is coming up, so along with the Chestnutburst H150 P90 that's FINALLY coming out of layaway, I'll get some "nutty" videos and tools as well.

Posted
the Chestnutburst H150 P90 that's FINALLY coming out of layaway,

 

 

Boy, howdy, am I anxious to see pics of that one!!!  P-90 150's...now if I could afford to collect any one thing!          :icon_cyclops_ani:

Posted
Boy, howdy, am I anxious to see pics of that one!!!  P-90 150's

 

I SECOND THAT :occasion14:

Posted

My 150-P tends to go out of tune for the first 20 mins when I arrive to practice or play... every song... then it is fine, rock solid in fact.  Perhaps it is very sensitive to climate change.

Posted

Thundersteel,

 

Sorry for slow response, been on the road for a week+. All you need is a nut files, a sharp exacto knife to score the nitro around all edges of the nut, and some household files to do the major shaping., and then a sheet of 320, 600 and 1200 grit sandpaper...  Dan Erlewine's book on guitar setup has the details but so does his article for free on the Stew-Mac website.  I'd resist the tempation to spend lots on special tools (other than the nut files).  It's amazingly easy. Buy 5 nut blanks on E-bay for a couple bucks each and by the time you are on your 2nd or 3rd it will be perfect (with 2 blanks to spare.)  I bought my files from LMI (Luthier Mercantile) for a lot less than Stew-Mac.  It's mind blowingly easy and at $2.50 a blank, so what if it takes you a couple tries to get it perfectly.  You'll love the feeling of mastery knowing you can tweak your nut to your playing style and touch anytime you want to... dive in, man.  The water is fine.  You can e-mail me anytime and I'll call you and walk you through any particular part or thought...

 

Cheers,  Cryoman

 

PS.  The reason I'm willing to put in a new bone nut for any HOC member for free is simply to spread that gospel by showing people how easy it is.... I feel a million more miles connected to my guitars simply by cutting the nut the way I like it....

Posted
Nice guitar by the way... bet you can't wait to get that one home.

 

I've been waiting 6 months--it should be here by the last week in June. Then, I'll be sure to post pics!

Posted
PS.  The reason I'm willing to put in a new bone nut for any HOC member for free is simply to spread that gospel by showing people how easy it is.... I feel a million more miles connected to my guitars simply by cutting the nut the way I like it....

 

Cryo:

 

Your enthusiasm for this and your pickguards areexactly  the sorts of things which make the HOC what it is!  Well done!  Karma up +1, Cryoman!                                      :occasion14:

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