Neck Adjustment Update

[Kazwell]

BTW, thanks Brentrocks for the info on the driver- ...

 

I adjusted the trussrod and pulled back the neck by turning the nut driver away from me- with the guitar laying flat with the headstock pointing to the left.

 

After several turns the truss rod nut became completely loose, so I guess I reached the furthest point I could pull it back.

 

I then had to bring the bridge down a bit to try to set the string angle as even as I could across the fretboard. I can definately see it bow around the 8th fret.

 

If I brought the bridge down too far, I would not get any buzzing on the first few frets as is a common issue. but it appeared that the strings -mainly the low E was touching the frets around the 14th fret on up.

 

Once I found a happy medium I did notice a better feel, and sound of the guitar in general. There is however still a triangular relationship between the string in the relation to the nut on up the higher frets. It's not as bad, and I could probably live with it. In some ways it may evenbe an advantage when considering how your hand meets the neck when further from your body, you have less leverage on the strings as you do as it comes closer to the middle and upper frets. So perhaps in some ways it works better. Its mainly a mental thing. My other guitars-even some cheap ones have a much straighter string/fretboard relationship.

 

But the fact of the matter is, even with the trussrod pulled all the way back, it appears that the neck still bows forward a bit more than it should in the region of the first four frets. This is making me a bit nervous although I don't know what a repair tech could do at this pointl

 

Thoughts, comments suggestion... ???  I know my descriptions can be a bit convoluted, so please feel free to ask for clarification if necessary.

 

Thanks again

 

Kaz

[yoslate]

Kaz:

 

Having loosened it that much, give it four or five days to settle, then see what you have before drawing any conclusions or effecting any further adjustment.  That wood is alive; let it do as it will.

[High Flying Bird]

Kaz, as a buddy, I am telling you to chill out.  You have been tinkering with strings and over/under the tail piece issues and have got yourself crazy.  Sit back for a bit, forget about it for a few days and think about what you wanted when you started.  Then you will get it just like you want. 

 

Or, try hitting your big toe with a sheet rock hammer and the neck will not bother you so much.  It works for me. 

[111518]

Kaz:

As  I read your description, it sounds like you've completely loosened the truss rod nut, such that the rod is no longer putting tension on the neck.  (You've turned the nut counterclockwise.)  This isn't usually what people mean when they say "pulling back" the neck.  As Yoslate suggests, it will take a little time for the neck to respond to the lack of counter-tension to the strings, but it will probably develop more bow. 

 

I wouldn't try to reverse operation to the other extreme!  Pulling the neck back until the nut bottoms out on the threads is risky --easy to break loose the rod, or to strip the threads. 

[Paul Asbell]

At the risk of being a "buttinski" here... I suspect that 111518 is correct, and that you've completely loosened the truss rod adjustment. This is not a good idea... if in fact that's what you did.

 

In general, the recommendation for truss-rod adjustments (on any guitar- acoustic or electric) is never to go more than 1/4 turn before letting the instrument sit for a day or so, seeing what change resulted, and going from there.

 

There'a a common misconception that truss-rod adjustment is a method of setting the desired playing action of a guitar. It really ISN'T that– though of course, truss-rod adjustments definitely affect playing action.

 

There are several different factors that can affect ease or difficulty of action... the 3 most important being truss rod adjustment, nut goove height, and saddle height. All are interdependent and inter-related... but it's definitely best to approach the setup by doing the 3 tasks properly IN THAT ORDER! Excellent rundowns on this setup stuff can be found at Frets.com and many other guitar-related sites.

 

That said... if any of this stuff is new to someone, it's my experience that that person should be very cautious about assuming that they can "learn by doing" on a nice guitar... such as a nice Heritage! IMO, the best thing that a player can do to start getting a handle on these issues is take their guitar to a skilled, savvy pro for a setup... or AT LEAST a consultation.

 

My $.02...

[tulk1]

Any chance Heritage uses a double action truss rod? My Stambaugh has that. I once thought I'd completely loosened the truss rod so I gave Chris a call. He said with the double action rods it's possible to hit a "no zone" on the adjustment. He suggested gently continuing to adjust in the same direction. And sure enough the truss rod caught within one turn. Works great if you know thats what is being used. Any one know about our guys? Brent - any chance you can get them to confirm one way or another?

[yoslate]

I wouldn't try to reverse operation to the other extreme!  Pulling the neck back until the nut bottoms out on the threads is risky --easy to break loose the rod, or to strip the threads. 

 

You bet on that point, 111!  Yanking that boy all the way down in the other direction to "snap" has really dire consequences!  Anybody wanna try to peel the fretboard off of any of your guitars?                   

[pushover]

Once upon a time when I was foolish enough to try this kinda stuff myself, I remember being told that it's not hard to do your own truss rod adjustment, but to mark my start position, turn only 1/8 of a turn, or 1/4 turn at most and after each time, leave it at least a day to see what the response is.  Patience seems to be the key.. 

 

 

 

 

[golferwave]

I agree with the others on no more than 1/4 turn at a time and patience. It depends what you want in your setup but I personally like about .007" to .008" relief in my neck.  The measurement is taken at the fret nearest the halfway point between the nut and where the neck joins the body.  I use a straightedge and an automotive feeler gauge to set the relief.  Good luck!

[Paul Asbell]

+1 to the info in Golferwave's post. It echoes exactly what I prefer in my setups... but...

 

At the risk of repeating myself, or sounding disrespectful...

 

If any of this discussion is unfamiliar, or confusing in any way– then I really would think twice before attempting to setup a valued guitar. Some things (like adjusting the bridge height) are completely undo-able... but it's very possible to create a serious, uncorrectable problem if you aren't experienced with adjusting truss rods. And one of the MOST helpful tweaks for setup is getting the nut groove heights correct... but that job can EASILY be overdone. It's like adding salt to the soup... once you've cut the nut groove too deep, it's hard to undo it.

 

It's usually a revelation to see what a skilled pro can do to setup a guitar properly. Once you experience that, it's easier to figure out what should be done.

 

My $.02, again....