gain/overdrive/distortion

[JeffB]

I struggle with it. I hate the sound of it. Its a buzzy fizzy rasp inside the sound that I cant ignore. Its fatiguing.

Over the years Ive tried different amps, speakers, cabs, tubes, pickups,picks, leads, guitar timbers, blah blah etc etc.

I dont just hear it in my own sound, I hear it when anyone plays and Im in the room.

I can ignore it for a while and just play or just listen and just accept it mostly but sometimes I cant get passed it.

Even in low gain settings where an amp is lightly pushed I hear the gritty fizz setting in and it bugs me.

Its why I play acoustic mainly when Im at home.

I wish I didnt hear it because the bulk of my electric guitar playing time is spent playing low to quite high gain sounds. I have to take other peoples word for it when I ask them if the sounds are alright because to me it all ways sounds pretty meh.

Ive watched some pretty good concerts and have actually walked out on some of them, some of them being guys I really like. Just the raspy part of the over driven guitar sound annoys me.

I like the over all sound/tone of over driven guitar except for this one component in side the sound that is fizz.

Any one else hear the same thing or bothered by it?

[mark555]

Only bad tone bothers me, but that is in the ear of the listener and what one likes another dislikes. You can make a wonderful guitar sound atrocious if you want to, but then again, the player might think it sounds wonderful.

 

I guess the answer might be to play clear and clean music. Have you thought of changing your amp?

[brentrocks]

i love good high gain distortion....i grew up in the 80s. but there is definately BAD distortion....what comes to mind is the guitarist for Twisted Sister....he had some terrible tone!!!

[DetroitBlues]

I find myself using more gain then what's necessary. Even when playing the blues, there's still too much dirt. But I love it! However, I prefer overdrive over distortion.

[fxdx99]

Yup, I like a nice clean fender amp. Rich. Articulate. Open. Piano like lows. Crisp controlled highs. Slightly scooped mids. Yum. Love it. Don't like, but do use a low gain pedal (bad monkey) and in a band setting with gain on 9 o'clock and level on one it works fine. In a quiet setting it distracts from the lush clean sound of the amp. Once went to try an OCD when they first came out and were all the rage. Plugged it into a brown face amp w/a strat. Lovely. Pushed the pedal. Yuck - are you kidding me?

 

My amp (Allen Acc Jr) has a master volume that I used to use to get a gain sound and it worked for a while, but I finally 'got' that it detracts from the amp.

 

However... I will say that I really like the Reinhardt amp. It's got a power leveler of some sort on it. I'd convinced myself that all the attenuators and power control gadgets were snake oil and simple could not replicate a cranked amp. But dang if this device doesn't work okay. Allows those 'marshally' harmonic feedback frequencies to come thru, even w/single coils. That's the amp that I like for overdriven sounds. It's not truly a marshall, nor a mesa or tweed or cranked whatever... it's got a very nice creamy power tube overdriven sound that I like. Like it a lot.

 

Almost as much as a nice clean fender amp.

[Trouble]

I hear that fizzy sound in some overdrives/distortions as well. My Rat sounds like that at any medium to high setting, and I don't use it a lot but sometimes I can make that work depending on the song. I tend to use my pedals low gain higher volume, so basically just a preamp. I was practicing with my whole rig just a little while ago and realized that the settings on my OCD amd my Drect Drive are almost identical, The DD just naturally sounds more vintage, and dirtier, but I still have the gain set fairly low and the volume set higher.

 

I generally just like the amp being pushed into a little overdrive so most of the dirt comes from the amp.

[JeffB]

Only bad tone bothers me, but that is in the ear of the listener and what one likes another dislikes. You can make a wonderful guitar sound atrocious if you want to, but then again, the player might think it sounds wonderful.

 

I guess the answer might be to play clear and clean music. Have you thought of changing your amp?

Its one of the reasons Ive played acoustic in a band for the last 3-4yrs. Just gone back to electric lately.

Changing amps you say? Just what I need, an enabler.

Its something I hear in any amp/speaker combo. I dont dislike the sound of an overdriven amp, I like it, I have a problem with an element of the sound. I dont think its an element that can be avoided.

I love David Grissoms sound for example but when I watched him play and standing pretty close to his amp the annoying harsh fizz was present in his sound just as it was in Santana's, Buddy Guys, Brian Setzers Chris Rea's, Robbin Ford etc etc.

[H]

Sounds like you're listening for the fizz instead of listening to the music

[LK155]

I'm with Randy.

If learning to play guitar is a journey, then I see the overdriven/distorted type of sound as one leg of that journey. You do it for a while, then move on.

It's a great way to disguise sloppy or imprecise technique, and I'm guilty of using it for that purpose too.

Granted, trying to duplicate somebody's classic sound may require shaping the amp tones in that direction, but I've always thought that if your goal was to sound exactly like someone else, you need to expand your horizons and pursue your own style.

Clean and clear is my preference, for today at least. And a mature Fender tube amp is a wonderful tool for getting there.

[smurph1]

I find myself using more gain then what's necessary. Even when playing the blues, there's still too much dirt. But I love it! However, I prefer overdrive over distortion.

I don't really know the difference..But I know this much, everything needs to be balanced...to my ears at least.. YMMV

[FredZepp]

I like a set up that gives me the option of changing the overdrive of the tone with the volume knob on the guitar. Clean tones .. then some snarling aggressive tones.

[Hfan]

I'm with Randy.

If learning to play guitar is a journey, then I see the overdriven/distorted type of sound as one leg of that journey. You do it for a while, then move on.

It's a great way to disguise sloppy or imprecise technique, and I'm guilty of using it for that purpose too.

Granted, trying to duplicate somebody's classic sound may require shaping the amp tones in that direction, but I've always thought that if your goal was to sound exactly like someone else, you need to expand your horizons and pursue your own style.

Clean and clear is my preference, for today at least. And a mature Fender tube amp is a wonderful tool for getting there.

I'm in this camp as well, I've bought various pedals which seem to sit in their boxes. For just playinjg at home I'm happy with my Fender and Fender type amps with reverb. Been in a Tele mode for a while which even makes things cleaner and less forgiving. That said distortion can be great fun and if I was gigging I'm sure I would have to be using pedals to get various tones.

[smurph1]

+1 on the Tele tones..i've been playing the snot out of my ASAT lately..and you are right they seem to invite clean playing a bit more..

[tulk1]

I think what you're struggling with is the very nature of the over driven sound. What is OD/Distortion? It's an originally nice, warm and round sound wave that is clipped. OD to Dist determines the amount of the clipping from subtle to extreme. And the second you start clipping that wave you get ... fizz. Those great warm and wonderful tones we all strive for were produced more from shear volume than from any real distortion. Altho', yes, plenty of musical styles incorporate distortion ... there's the fizz built right in.

 

So, the Catch 22 is that in order to get those great tones available from amplifying our guitars we need volume. But we can't use that volume in normal everyday use. So we have to employ a device that "simulates" the loud tones. That device clips our waves in order to fool the ear into hearing a perceived tone produced at volume. Clipped waves introduce fizz. And round it goes.

 

Another player in the spectrum is just that --- other players. As they take up bandwidth what we are able to hear from our own instruments is diminished. And depending on the amount of hearing loss most of us have suffered from trying to achieve our Nirvana of tones at louder volumes, what we can actually pick out from all the overtones is generally the higher frequencies. And not necessarily the best of the higher tones, nor what is actually coming out of the amp.

 

And round and round it goes.

[DetroitBlues]

Yup, I like a nice clean fender amp. Rich. Articulate. Open. Piano like lows. Crisp controlled highs. Slightly scooped mids. Yum. Love it. Don't like, but do use a low gain pedal (bad monkey) and in a band setting with gain on 9 o'clock and level on one it works fine. In a quiet setting it distracts from the lush clean sound of the amp. Once went to try an OCD when they first came out and were all the rage. Plugged it into a brown face amp w/a strat. Lovely. Pushed the pedal. Yuck - are you kidding me?

 

My amp (Allen Acc Jr) has a master volume that I used to use to get a gain sound and it worked for a while, but I finally 'got' that it detracts from the amp.

 

However... I will say that I really like the Reinhardt amp. It's got a power leveler of some sort on it. I'd convinced myself that all the attenuators and power control gadgets were snake oil and simple could not replicate a cranked amp. But dang if this device doesn't work okay. Allows those 'marshally' harmonic feedback frequencies to come thru, even w/single coils. That's the amp that I like for overdriven sounds. It's not truly a marshall, nor a mesa or tweed or cranked whatever... it's got a very nice creamy power tube overdriven sound that I like. Like it a lot.

 

Almost as much as a nice clean fender amp.

 

My KBP amp is a rather clean amp. I use a Boss ST-2 Powerstack and it sounds like a driven Marshall amp to me. Love the tone it produces. I had a bad monkey for awhile, and rather love the pedal, but let them all go a couple years ago when I bought a Superchamp XD.

[JeffB]

Just as an example, you cant go from here:

to here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd6AxZz_HoY&feature=related

by rolling down your guitars volume. Not on any amp Ive tried at least.

 

I dont dislike the over all impact of a gained up amp. Some of my favourite songs to play are high gain driven songs.

But there is an element/component in gain even at its lowest point where there is a just audible clip starting to happen that I hear fizz entering into the sound. It doesnt matter if its max gain or a soft clip.

Its not something that can be dialed out very well. If the fizz seems attached to higher frequencies and you turn those down then you lose clarity and presence in the mix. Same if it seems attached to the mids, you lose punch and definition.

Compression can/(sort of, kinda) smooth out the fizz a little if it is in a low gain bluesy setting but not such a useful device at higher gain settings where there is already a lot of compression happening anyway.

Delay and reverb can also smooth it out but its not always the best way to hide it.

It could be something Im acutely aware of for some reason and have low tolerance for, just like a particular wah that makes me feel queasy and agitated when I use it( try explaining that one to a sales guy when you try to return it!)

 

Im appreciative of lots of electric guitar sounds but still hear the fizz inside it that I dont like. A bit like despising the colour yellow but liking paintings that have yellow in it. I could "try" to take this analogy further in that yellow is a primary colour and essential to creating other colours and fizz seems to be a primary ingredient of gain.....at least to my ears. Ive never heard od/clipping achieved without it by anyone through any guitar amp set up.

 

Just not sure Ive explained this right at any stage. Feels like one of those blank stare conversations where no one has a clue what you are describing but you feel certain you could sail through the galaxy using solar sails as long as you tacked with the sun on the sails at all times.....

 

Might be just something I hear and for what ever reason hear it as a bad/annoying thing and most others hear as a good thing.

[Trouble]

I think what you're struggling with is the very nature of the over driven sound. What is OD/Distortion? It's an originally nice, warm and round sound wave that is clipped. OD to Dist determines the amount of the clipping from subtle to extreme. And the second you start clipping that wave you get ... fizz. Those great warm and wonderful tones we all strive for were produced more from shear volume than from any real distortion. Altho', yes, plenty of musical styles incorporate distortion ... there's the fizz built right in.

 

So, the Catch 22 is that in order to get those great tones available from amplifying our guitars we need volume. But we can't use that volume in normal everyday use. So we have to employ a device that "simulates" the loud tones. That device clips our waves in order to fool the ear into hearing a perceived tone produced at volume. Clipped waves introduce fizz. And round it goes.

 

Another player in the spectrum is just that --- other players. As they take up bandwidth what we are able to hear from our own instruments is diminished. And depending on the amount of hearing loss most of us have suffered from trying to achieve our Nirvana of tones at louder volumes, what we can actually pick out from all the overtones is generally the higher frequencies. And not necessarily the best of the higher tones, nor what is actually coming out of the amp.

 

And round and round it goes.

Good post!

[GuitArtMan]

Man if theres one effect I think more defines the electric guitar sound than any other it's overdrive. I can't live without it. I love the other effects (wah, modulation, reverb, delay, etc.) but if I had to give them all up except one, it would be overdrive. Can't live without it. I have more OD pedals than all others combined. Nothing get's me going more than a killer OD tone. Sure I love clean tones too, and love acoustic too, don't get me wrong, but where would rock and roll and the blues be without OD?

 

Tone is subjective, and not all tones would work for all situations. I love Sultans of Swing and l love Money for Nothing. Same player, two great tones, not interchangable. Could you immagine Sultans of Swing with the Money for Nothing tone? Eeek!!! Or Money for Nothing with the Sultans tone? Not gonna work. Tone can be very context sensitive imho.

[Trouble]

Man if theres one effect I think more defines the electric guitar sound than any other it's overdrive. I can't live without it. I love the other effects (wah, modulation, reverb, delay, etc.) but if I had to give them all up except one, it would be overdrive. Can't live without it. I have more OD pedals than all others combined. Nothing get's me going more than a killer OD tone. Sure I love clean tones too, and love acoustic too, don't get me wrong, but where would rock and roll and the blues be without OD?

 

Tone is subjective, and not all tones would work for all situations. I love Sultans of Swing and l love Money for Nothing. Same player, two great tones, not interchangable. Could you immagine Sultans of Swing with the Money for Nothing tone? Eeek!!! Or Money for Nothing with the Sultans tone? Not gonna work. Tone can be very context sensitive imho.

I know Mark Knophler is known for the clean "in between " strat sound, but my favorite Knophler tune has always been Brothers in Arms, absolutely profound guitar work in that one. Crank that song up and it gives me chills.

[212Mavguy]

@ the OP...

 

Howard Dumble went to great lengths to get more harmonic content and sustain while expressing less fizz in his designs. That's why I have two d-clones, one a Ceriatone 50w HRM, (90's style Dumble) other a Marsh 50w Overlord (80's ODS type). Both of them can get right into Marshall territory, but they both can very musically sustain with a smooth, harmonically rich OD sound as well. Depends on the channel gain settings, particularly the OD trim setting. The Marsh at the beginning had a bit of roughness right at pick attack at higher than clean gain settings, but after 100 hours of break in, it smoothed right out. D-style amps are well known for a significant improvement in sound from what starts as already sounding great after a long burn in. Tube selection and bias settings have some to do with that fizz factor as well. Both of my amps, while a bit spendy, are screaming deals for what I get from them sonically compared to the cost and difficulty of obtaining an original Dumble. Check out the youtube clips of ceriatone Overtone and HRM models, particularly the clips from marinblues. You will hear lots of guys doing the smooth jazz thang with those amps in the online clips, but the mighty D-clones can do much more variety within their tone set than any other amp I have ever had.

[pro-fusion]

Everyone has their own tone. Me, I like gobs of distortion and have to constantly turn down the gain control when I'm recording metal rhythms to get a tighter sound. But then, two of my musical heroes are Tony Iommi and Frank Zappa, so that highly saturated guitar sound is just part of my upbringing.

[JeffB]

Im looking into damaged hearing as a cause for the distortion/fizz Im hearing.

Starting this thread and reading the responses made me think that either I was not explaining myself very well or no one else heard what I heard.

Then I remembered the story/urban legend/actual account/what ever about the well known sound engineer(dont know who he was but the story said he was well known) who kept returning his new head phones because they were all distorting. They werent distorting,so the story goes, it was his hearing that was creating the distortion.

Upto 6yrs ago I had my hearing tested every year and had been doing so for the previous 15yrs. There was a notable degradation in hearing in my right ear from the 1st test to the last. I can graph it as I have every single test result.

I worked with power tools all my working life (up to 6yrs ago). If I wasnt using them some one next to me was. Nearly always wore hearing protection. But Im guessing that wasnt always enough judging by the degradation in my right ear. ( right handed so drilling cutting is/was on my right side)

Ive spent the last week swapping speakers and p/ups amps and guitars to single out a common denominator in fizz generation and really the main constant would be the high pitch ringing that I have in my head. That could be causing the fizz I hear. As different frequencies react to increasing levels of od/ compression and sound pressure changes and all that stuff that I dont know what Im talking about happens, my ears may react also and supply additional information that actually isnt there to others.

I could be wrong but its making for interesting reading and if right it might mean I can stop buying amps and speaker cabs and never have to swap out a p/up again. I could actually stop worrying about it and just play.