Why keep reinventing the wheel?

[Guest HRB853370]

I think of Heritage as a better offering of jazz arch tops, semi hollows and LP style guitars. No need to reinvent the wheel with those guitars. If players seek alternative type guitars, then there are a vast amount of "innovators" in the business to choose from. Heritage doesn't do shredder type guitars real well. I doubt that they want to. Just give me a great 575, GE, or SE, a great 535 or a great 150. Throw in the occasional 357, Sweet 16. There's really nothing else a Heritage fan would need. If so, find it else where.

 

You just nailed it! That is their lineup, their produits de force! They do that the best! Anything else would make them start looking like the other companies that mass produce all those crazy designs. Heritage does not need to be a pioneer. They know what works and has been said over and over and over, they do what they know how to do, THE BEST!

[Halowords]

For those saying Heritage should just do what they do best and not try to pioneer new things, I will just humbly agree to disagree. I think it is best to produce things of quality that you are known for and that represent, well, their heritage. I also think it is healthy to try new things or consider new ideas. Otherwise, we would never have gotten the solid body electric guitar, contours (forearm/belly cuts), learned to use feedback or tube overdrive, developed vibrato/whammy bars, or humbuckers. I think there is a happy medium.

[JeffB]

[the jayce]

For those saying Heritage should just do what they do best and not try to pioneer new things, I will just humbly agree to disagree. I think it is best to produce things of quality that you are known for and that represent, well, their heritage. I also think it is healthy to try new things or consider new ideas. Otherwise, we would never have gotten the solid body electric guitar, contours (forearm/belly cuts), learned to use feedback or tube overdrive, developed vibrato/whammy bars, or humbuckers. I think there is a happy medium.

So perfectly stated! +1

[H]

Has a Patrick Nagel vibe about it

More of a Patrick Stewart vibe for me

[Guest HRB853370]

For those saying Heritage should just do what they do best and not try to pioneer new things, I will just humbly agree to disagree. I think it is best to produce things of quality that you are known for and that represent, well, their heritage. I also think it is healthy to try new things or consider new ideas. Otherwise, we would never have gotten the solid body electric guitar, contours (forearm/belly cuts), learned to use feedback or tube overdrive, developed vibrato/whammy bars, or humbuckers. I think there is a happy medium.

 

In theory you are correct. However, leave that to the boyz in Nashville. I seriously do not think Heritage, at this stage of their business lifecycle, is interested in engineering new concepts. Can you picture Marv, Bill, Jim and Ren in a room talking about R&D for their next new product design? I sure can't. Back in the day, there were engineers and product designers at 225 Parsons Street. I think Heritage is content with what they are doing, as long as the models they offer continue to sell. Remember, the boys and girls who are now playing Ibanez and Charvel in their 20's are good prospects for Heritage in their 30's and 40's.

[FredZepp]

While I wouldn't mind seeing the folks at Parsons Street play with some slight alterations to the classic designs ( and we've seen them do it on custom orders at times ) , there is a limit as to what we'd expect to be a successful trend for them to undertake.

"The Heritage" guitar company is, by it's very definition and nature, a company that excels at making a limited number of excellent guitars that pay homage to the Golden Years of the Parsons Street plant. It seems to have been their business plan from the start and they've stuck with it.

 

[Blunote]

I just don't think coming up with new artistic expressions and designs is part of Heritage's business model -nor should it be.

 

While I'm not that familiar with the guitar industry, new model introductions usually come with extra carrying costs in form of parts/material inventories, tooling, supporting documentation etc. that can have cumulative effect. There's also a risk of undermining their current appeal to their bread and butter demographic, or customer base. The appeal of vintage hand-built instruments might wear off on some of us old coots when they shift focus to more modern artsy product offerings, or start following fads.

 

I'm reminded of a (fictional) story I once heard about a couple of brothers who started a fudge shop: They developed a tasty, high quality fudge based on a secret recipe. Over time they built up a loyal customer following. While they saw steady growth in sales, it was not dramatic growth, so they experimented with their tried and true recipe.

 

What followed was a series of "improvements": At first, sales increased with the introduction of the new, improved fudge. Encouraged by higher sales, the brothers soon released their next new improved version and sales again increased-though somewhat less than previously. After the third revision of their fudge, sales stayed flat, even declined a bit.

 

By now, the brothers were convinced that the way to increase sales was to keep revising their previously successful product and therefore reacted to the latest sales decline by revising the recipe yet again. Unfortunately, that only made the problem worse and sales further declined until they couldn't cover operating costs and closed up shop.

 

The moral of the story is that you can improve yourself right out of business. What the brothers failed to understand was that they had a brand and their customers had expectations of what that brand was. Whether the fudge was better or not is rather subjective, but when customers can't depend on the product they like to be the same the next time they purchase it, they'll find other brands that are more consistent.

 

I'm not sure where I heard the story but I remembered it because it's a good way to illustrate the intangible concept of brand loyalty or goodwill and it's value apart from the product; whether fudge or guitars, or "New Coke".

[Halowords]

I just don't think coming up with new artistic expressions and designs is part of Heritage's business model -nor should it be.

 

While I'm not that familiar with the guitar industry, new model introductions usually come with extra carrying costs in form of parts/material inventories, tooling, supporting documentation etc. that can have cumulative effect. There's also a risk of undermining their current appeal to their bread and butter demographic, or customer base. The appeal of vintage hand-built instruments might wear off on some of us old coots when they shift focus to more modern artsy product offerings, or start following fads.

 

I would counter that by saying, who says new ideas have to be overly artsy, modern, or based on fads? For that matter, even if some of them are, why would that undermine their appeal with current demographics?

 

While I agree, some innovations can suffer from being overly modernistic of fad-based. It does not have to be that way. For every "New Coke" you can find a new product that blew the pants off of people in a good way. Like anti-lock brakes, CD's and MP3 players, new alloys and plastics used to produce more durable and lightweight cars or building materials, nearly anything Leo Fender did with guitars, etc.

 

For every (fictitious) brothers introducing new flavors of fudge or (real) New Coke recipes that fail, there are new and successful types of candies or flavors of foods that actually take off. I am not saying there are not risks, there are. However as long as there is still the "Old Coke" (metaphorically, or literally), how do you undermine the demographic? If Heritage starts offering Stats w/ Floyd Rose bridges or the option of on-board Roland effects or set-neck Tele-style guitars or any other guitar that their customers ask for or that a demand exists for, how will that alienate people who just want a standard H-150 or H-535 when they still offer those as their bread & butter? Leo did not lose customers because he kept tinkering with guitar & pickup designs at Fender and at G&L, did he? With Gibson, the most cited example, the backlash from their ideas is due to a lot of things and not merely their attempts at trying new things. With New Coke, that failed in large part due to the fact that they did not just offer a new alternate version, but replaced the original version. I would point to KFC and note that they added the Extra Crispy recipe in addition to the original recipe, not as a replacement.

 

I am not saying matter-of-factly that Heritage should be doing a lot of new designs. I am saying, there is nothing wrong with examining new ideas as they come up, if there is a niche or a demand, then prototyping them to see if they work. If they see no need, or do not feel like filling said demand, so be it. I would argue, however, that if they examine it, see a marketable need, and give it a shot, there is little downside outside of the initial expense and risk it does not take off.

[TalismanRich]

Heritage currently produces about 25 different models. They have more archtop hollow bodies than solid bodies. That should say something about their target market.

 

Tooling up for new fancy designs takes $$$. Even with that, the probability of the new design being a hit is most likely <50%. Going down the strat/tele market is almost suicide these days. How many other companies are making those? Now, how many are making archtops. I'll bet theres a 5-1 ratio of tele/strat to archtop makers. The Heritage folks have already said they aren't going back into that market.

 

I'm not into Art Deco, and personally, Airlines and Reverends do nothing for me. Dano's aren't high on my list.

 

They've made Stats, Mark Slaughters, Mille SAEs, Little Ones, Kahunas, banjos, mandolins, acoustics, the VIP, the 160 and 162s. Apparently those were NOT the models that their buyers were asking for, or they would still be making them. If they could sell 1000 Slaughter style guitars a year, they would still be doing them. There's a reason why those guitars aren't in the line any more!

 

In the end, I don't have so much "brand loyalty" that all my guitars have to say Heritage. I have Fender and G&L to handle the "Fender" side, and if I want an upgrade, I can go Logan, Kirn, Zion, Suhr, Anderson, Melancon, LSL, Grosh, Hahn, Kelly, Tyler, Crook, DeTemple, Tuttle, Nash, .... (hope I didn't miss any!) Talk about reinventing the wheel!

[Guest wesmo]

Heritage currently produces about 25 different models. They have more archtop hollow bodies than solid bodies. That should say something about their target market.

 

Tooling up for new fancy designs takes $$$. Even with that, the probability of the new design being a hit is most likely <50%. Going down the strat/tele market is almost suicide these days. How many other companies are making those? Now, how many are making archtops. I'll bet theres a 5-1 ratio of tele/strat to archtop makers. The Heritage folks have already said they aren't going back into that market.

 

I'm not into Art Deco, and personally, Airlines and Reverends do nothing for me. Dano's aren't high on my list.

 

They've made Stats, Mark Slaughters, Mille SAEs, Little Ones, Kahunas, banjos, mandolins, acoustics, the VIP, the 160 and 162s. Apparently those were NOT the models that their buyers were asking for, or they would still be making them. If they could sell 1000 Slaughter style guitars a year, they would still be doing them. There's a reason why those guitars aren't in the line any more!

 

In the end, I don't have so much "brand loyalty" that all my guitars have to say Heritage. I have Fender and G&L to handle the "Fender" side, and if I want an upgrade, I can go Logan, Kirn, Zion, Suhr, Anderson, Melancon, LSL, Grosh, Hahn, Kelly, Tyler, Crook, DeTemple, Tuttle, Nash, .... (hope I didn't miss any!) Talk about reinventing the wheel!

 

eggs-ackly

[bolero]

agree with Talisman 100%

 

Heritage will make you a custom guitar though, if you are so inclined

[Blunote]

 

For every (fictitious) brothers introducing new flavors of fudge or (real) New Coke recipes that fail, there are new and successful types of candies or flavors of foods that actually take off. I am not saying there are not risks, there are. However as long as there is still the "Old Coke" (metaphorically, or literally), how do you undermine the demographic? If Heritage starts offering Stats w/ Floyd Rose bridges or the option of on-board Roland effects or set-neck Tele-style guitars or any other guitar that their customers ask for or that a demand exists for, how will that alienate people who just want a standard H-150 or H-535 when they still offer those as their bread & butter? Leo did not lose customers because he kept tinkering with guitar & pickup designs at Fender and at G&L, did he? With Gibson, the most cited example, the backlash from their ideas is due to a lot of things and not merely their attempts at trying new things. With New Coke, that failed in large part due to the fact that they did not just offer a new alternate version, but replaced the original version. I would point to KFC and note that they added the Extra Crispy recipe in addition to the original recipe, not as a replacement.

 

I am not saying matter-of-factly that Heritage should be doing a lot of new designs. I am saying, there is nothing wrong with examining new ideas as they come up, if there is a niche or a demand, then prototyping them to see if they work. If they see no need, or do not feel like filling said demand, so be it. I would argue, however, that if they examine it, see a marketable need, and give it a shot, there is little downside outside of the initial expense and risk it does not take off.

 

A brand, or reputation is built over a long time at great expense and needs to be protected at all costs; especially when your dealer chain is limited, and advertising is virtually non-existant. Heritage's advertising and appeal is mostly word of mouth or HOC (I think this site does a lot to fuel new business for them). And, as hard as it is to build a brand, and a positive reputation, it is much, much easier to ruin it.

 

Like TalismanRich says, Heritage already offers quite a number of models that are mostly variations on a few tried and true designs. There a many other less traditional designs that didn't survive.

 

Personally, I don't think a string of duds helps a company maintain a confident market, borrowing ability or prestige any more than a string of Edsels would help a car company convince skeptical buyers to purchase their other products. Granted, as a custom house, Heritage can get away with it much easier than Ford, GM or Toyota, but if you're planning on producing more than one of a model, you need to make jigs, fixtures, prototypes etc... so that they can be profitably produced in quanities at a marketabe price.

 

That all costs money. Intuitively, I see a fair bit of risk and not that much upside for these 70+ year old owners.

[mark555]

More of a Patrick Stewart vibe for me

Patric Stewart is from where I live. Who would have thought a star ship captain would come from Huddersfield.....