heritagefan7 Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Seriously thinking abt the two of them---Pretty clear on the differences in the p'ups, dimensions, and the basic elements of each---however, for those who have plyed both (I've played neither)...are there differences in tone, playability? I have the 574 but it has a woodblock. A friend thinks it plays like a 175. I can't (due to lack of H dealers in the area) readily play either git---so I can't compare them myself. Looking for an old school blues sound and want to work on my jazz---Is the 574 (Schallers) gonna basically give me what I'd get from either of these?--Is there a great tonal diff b/c the 525/575? Also got my eye on a 150 and can't do the arctop and the solid body...which to choose?---I'll save for the archtop if the 574 is close---if not, I'm gonna go after the bluesy hollow body. FINALLY, gotta sell the 555 to do this so, I plan to post it here after this thread runs---Posting it here before ebay. Hate to part w/ it but wanna keep it in the fam if possible....After much thought and several threads, i've finally decided to make this move--thx to all for the help along the way!!!!! BTW if Gitfiddler wants to sell that AWESOME SUNSETBURST 525---I'm right here!!!!! (Fiddler--You have truly inspired me!)
heritagefan7 Posted January 2, 2012 Author Posted January 2, 2012 1 other note--currently playing thru a Vox VT50...would love to know if a tube amp (to come later after the git purchase) will highlight any tonal differences???
Guest HRB853370 Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 OK, just to set the record straight, I am first in line for the Sunsetburst 525!!
yoslate Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 BTW if Gitfiddler wants to sell that AWESOME SUNSETBURST 525---I'm right here!!!!! (Fiddler--You have truly inspired me!) I'll win the lottery, Cubbies will win the series in four, I'll give my 535 away, and goosedown and a Jone pocket warmer will be de rigueur in hell, first, I'm thinkin'....
heritagefan7 Posted January 2, 2012 Author Posted January 2, 2012 OK, just to set the record straight, I am first in line for the Sunsetburst 525!! Don't make me get ugly man...I'd hate to have to unleash the fury..trying to start the new year off right! BTW love the VSB 150...you're making it hard for me to make a decision.
Guest HRB853370 Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Sorry Rusty, I take it back, I promise! BTW, that VSB 150 sold 2 hours after I posted it here! Ya gotta love the HOC FS Forum, but ya also gotta move quick. I learned that by watching Brently's gear move at the speed of light!
heritagefan7 Posted January 2, 2012 Author Posted January 2, 2012 Sorry Rusty, I take it back, I promise! BTW, that VSB 150 sold 2 hours after I posted it here! Ya gotta love the HOC FS Forum, but ya also gotta move quick. I learned that by watching Brently's gear move at the speed of light! Sorry I missed it but glad it sold so quick!--And no apologies Will---MY BAD!!!...You did call first dibs. I must admit my jealousy--ask forgiveness--and gracefully give way! BTW U think Gitfiddler minds us lusting after his stuff like this?.....AND...Anybody got any thoughts on the 525/575 thing? I think i've hijacked my own thread!
Gitfiddler Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 The 525 is simply one of the most incredible guitars I've ever played. The 575 is also a wonderful guitar in its own right. They are similar in shape, but very different in how the amplified tones are achieved. Other P90 archtop owners like Kuz Eljay and Yoslate know what I'm referring to. The tone of the 575 is deeper, darker, more lush, simply because of its body depth and humbuckers. However, the main reason for my favoring the 525 is due to the P90s AND that something special built into it by man holding it in the attached photo. Marv did a fantastic job on the neck, body, hardware and touch of this fine instrument. He took what used to be a low end Gibson design and elevated it into a hand made custom work of musical art. He does this with each of his creations. The only way to truly understand what I'm referring to is to play one. H7 and Slammer, if you guys are ever in the SF Bay Area, let me know and you are welcome to spend quality time with my 525 as well as the other Heritage ladies that I hang out with.
heritagefan7 Posted January 2, 2012 Author Posted January 2, 2012 OK Slammer...I'm ready to go if you are!...Oh wait--if I pay for the plane ticket to go--then I won't be able to afford the 525! Fiddler--thanks so much for the thoughts. They are most helpful. I've shown the pics of your git to so many folks tht I think people are beginning to believe that I work for Heritage...hmmm, wonder if they'd give me a job...and then maybe a discount?
barrymclark Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 The man to ask might be Ingeneri. I believe hes owned both.
schundog Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 OK Slammer...I'm ready to go if you are!...Oh wait--if I pay for the plane ticket to go--then I won't be able to afford the 525! Fiddler--thanks so much for the thoughts. They are most helpful. I've shown the pics of your git to so many folks tht I think people are beginning to believe that I work for Heritage...hmmm, wonder if they'd give me a job...and then maybe a discount? My 525 isn't as pretty as Guitfiddlers, but I'll bet it sounds similar! Road-trip it up to Illinois with Will, and we'll have a jam session! Seriously, I'm WAY up for this, especially with the rest of winter looming ahead. As for which is better?! A 575 and a 140 are still on my wish-list..... So I guess I got nothin'.....
Kuz Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I own both and love what each does. 575 ( to me is a Jazz hollow body) think George Benson, Pat Metheny ..... The typical ES175 tone. 525 is going to cover more ground ( blues, rockabilly, ect) it can get into the jazz arena for sure, but won't have the big fat warm archtop tone of the 575. So the 575 is an awesome jazz archtop, and the 525 is a lot more flexible style wise.
SouthpawGuy Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 This won't help your decision one little bit but it's an awesome clip ....
bolero Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 wow that sounds great....into a '69 silverface vibrolux reverb..what a combination
heritagefan7 Posted January 2, 2012 Author Posted January 2, 2012 This won't help your decision one little bit but it's an awesome clip .... Southpaw...,I think I have watched this clip like 2000 times--I had to stop for fear of developing a problem/addiction...Gregor has been a big help...his demos are great! Thnks for the invite Schundog--after the NYE jam pics U just posted, I don't hink I could hang socially or musically---but it sounds like fun! Will man, we're getting a lot of invites!...Thx much to everyone--Kuz/Barry/Bolero--this is most helpful. THX HOC!...And the jam idea really does sound awesome.
Hfan Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I now see what all the fuss is about, killer tone.
Hfan Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 I just recalled that there was a 525 in red sunburst listed on the guitar center used gear section last week, sounds like a few of you guys are looking, may still be up.
MartyGrass Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I've had a few of each guitars. These include a H525 that's 2.75" deep and a H575 with Lollar P-90s. So Heritage changes things up to keep our interest. Both models will do jazz, blues and rockabilly just fine. Really. The H525 is a little more feedback resistant, even with the 2.75" body, due to the laminated body. I'm sure there's some subtle difference in tone, but I couldn't tell. Any difference was very much overshadowed by pickup choice. Laminated guitars are a little more stable than the carved ones. They don't split as easily. Also, they are cheaper to make. But don't interpret that as meaning they're less desirable. The only suggestion I have is to really be committed to P-90s before buying a guitar with dog ears. While it is possible to swap to a humbucker set later, your options are limited and expensive. P-90s cannot help but hum, even with both pickups on and the gain balanced between the two. Reverse wrapping will not eliminate it. I've made peace with P-90s over the years and accept a little hiss. The tone and vibe are unmatched. However when I plug in my H150 with Fralin P-92s there's dead silence. The same is true with the Z-coils on my G&L. On another related topic, there is a notable tone difference between the H575/525s and the Sweet 16. The Sweet 16 has greater sustain and more tonal depth. This is attributed to X bracing instead of parallel. I doubt the Sweet 16 would meet your needs because of feedback though.
heritagefan7 Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 I've had a few of each guitars. These include a H525 that's 2.75" deep and a H575 with Lollar P-90s. So Heritage changes things up to keep our interest. Both models will do jazz, blues and rockabilly just fine. Really. The H525 is a little more feedback resistant, even with the 2.75" body, due to the laminated body. I'm sure there's some subtle difference in tone, but I couldn't tell. Any difference was very much overshadowed by pickup choice. Laminated guitars are a little more stable than the carved ones. They don't split as easily. Also, they are cheaper to make. But don't interpret that as meaning they're less desirable. The only suggestion I have is to really be committed to P-90s before buying a guitar with dog ears. While it is possible to swap to a humbucker set later, your options are limited and expensive. P-90s cannot help but hum, even with both pickups on and the gain balanced between the two. Reverse wrapping will not eliminate it. I've made peace with P-90s over the years and accept a little hiss. The tone and vibe are unmatched. However when I plug in my H150 with Fralin P-92s there's dead silence. The same is true with the Z-coils on my G&L. On another related topic, there is a notable tone difference between the H575/525s and the Sweet 16. The Sweet 16 has greater sustain and more tonal depth. This is attributed to X bracing instead of parallel. I doubt the Sweet 16 would meet your needs because of feedback though. I've heard tales that the Fralin p90s are "noiseless" but I had a hard time being swayed to that side. My Strat has noiseless N3 single coils and they don't make a sound---but is that possible w/ p90s?...the strat single coils are certainly not nearly as hot though as other pups though--I find that I have to kick up the volume when I play the strat.
SouthpawGuy Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I've heard tales that the Fralin p90s are "noiseless" but I had a hard time being swayed to that side. My Strat has noiseless N3 single coils and they don't make a sound---but is that possible w/ p90s?...the strat single coils are certainly not nearly as hot though as other pups though--I find that I have to kick up the volume when I play the strat. The Fralin noise free P-90s are noise free. The Fralin non noise free variety P-90s are not noise free. I have a set of the noise free Fralin P-90s in a 137 and they are stone cold silent even with high gain, in fact they're less noisy than the MM90s in my EBMM Axis which has the Music Man silent circuit. Most noise free single coils are in fact humbuckers of some variety, either stacked or side by side. The Fralins are side by side with the pole pieces in the middle. The N3 SCNs are humbuckers as are Kinman strat pickups and P-90s, most manufacturers never use the term humbucker to advertise them though.
MartyGrass Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 You can order a H525 with humbuckers if you want. What I'm saying is that you have more flexibility if your guitar is routed for humbuckers. If you really only want a P-90 sound, get the standard Lollar P-90s and enjoy.
heritagefan7 Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 The Fralin noise free P-90s are noise free. The Fralin non noise free variety P-90s are not noise free. I have a set of the noise free Fralin P-90s in a 137 and they are stone cold silent even with high gain, in fact they're less noisy than the MM90s in my EBMM Axis which has the Music Man silent circuit. Most noise free single coils are in fact humbuckers of some variety, either stacked or side by side. The Fralins are side by side with the pole pieces in the middle. The N3 SCNs are humbuckers as are Kinman strat pickups and P-90s, most manufacturers never use the term humbucker to advertise them though. WOW--didn't know that!---so, if these are humbuckers, any thoughts on why these pups aren't as hot as say a 490r or Seth Lovers?
SouthpawGuy Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 WOW--didn't know that!---so, if these are humbuckers, any thoughts on why these pups aren't as hot as say a 490r or Seth Lovers? Presumably because the manufacturers try to keep them close to original P-90 tones, although Duncan have a stacked P-90 which is hot with high output. I guess some players want to have a high output P90 to avoid having to route a guitar for a full size humbucker ?
MartyGrass Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 The "silent" P-90s come in a couple of different varieties. The Fralin P-92s have two "half coils". The bobbins together would approximate the output of a single P-90 single coil. The half coils are wrapped to that standard. Others have a smaller and distant coil just to reduce the hum. Here's something to look at. http://www.fralinpickups.com/humbuckers.asp
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