Schaller Tuners

[jredbone]

Hi All:

I am looking at the Schaller top mount M6 locking tuners for my 535 but see a lot of folks here changing to Grover. I love Grover locking tuners but am a little anal about having the old set screw holes showing on the back of the headstock. Both Schaller and Grover with the nut on the back have different set screw placement. Anyway, I checked out the new Schaller top mount lockers and they should be an exact fit. I have never used a top loader and am just a little concerned about the height. Probably nothing but looks like the only drop in option for lockers. Any suggestions or feedback from those that have changed to either Grovers or the Schaller lockers would be appreciated.

[sonar]

I always thought Schallers were a cut above Grovers, especially now with imported Grovers, though only Grover makes Grover Imperials.

 

As for myself, I would never change down from Schallers to Grovers.

[jredbone]

Thanks, I do also like the idea of the drop in replacement vs new screw holes too. I am going to pay for the top mount lockers though. Nobody has them yet in the states so I either special order from someone like AllParts with a 1 -3 month lead time for $150-175 or buy them from a UK dealer that has them and can ship immediately for about the same with shipping and I would have them in a week or so. So pricey though, jeez...

[kidsmoke]

can you include a link to the exact tuners you're planning on using? Just curious.

[jredbone]

Here is the Schaller link, The only thing that concerns me is the 1:12 ratio, but I suppose if they lock you wont be turning them much anyway. I wish the model with the nut on the btm had the same screw hole layout, but this top mount should be fine, just pricey...Scaller PN 7502NI or 7502CH (chrome or nickel)

 

http://guitar-machin...tikel-Liste.htm

[golferwave]

I wouldn't drill any new holes. The Schallers are great tuners.

[jredbone]

I never really doubted the Schaller quality, just the lack of a locking drop-in for their std screw patern, and of course more than double the price of Grovers...

[sonar]

...more than double the price of Grovers...

 

 

Well worth it IMHO.

 

Grovers are a shadow of their former selves (what they were in the sixties).

 

Schaller has kept their standards up.

[jredbone]

Yeah, they have definitely gone the way of importing and cheapening the brand. Like you said you can still get the imperials but if you dont know any better you could end up with the cheaper imports. I will be springing for the top mount Schaller lockers. I just wish someone in the states would stock them...

[smurph1]

I guess I'm in the minority here but the Grovers on my 535 seem fine..My 2 cents..

[DetroitBlues]

Never had a problem on my guitars with Grovers. Some are older Grovers like on my '85 140 and some are newer like my Epi Dot. I'm sure there is some differences, but I do not have a tuning issue. I always tune UP, wind my strings correctly, and use graphite (pencil shavings) on the nut slots.

[H]

I find the Grovers heavy and tarnish-prone. They hold tune as well as any other tuners I've used though.

[Spectrum13]

I find the Grovers heavy and tarnish-prone. They hold tune as well as any other tuners I've used though.

 

 

Agree with H.

 

If you break strings often and play out, I see the value of locking tuners.

[DetroitBlues]

I find the Grovers heavy and tarnish-prone. They hold tune as well as any other tuners I've used though.

 

I could see aluminum grovers, but my chrome ones have held up quite well...

 

[kbp810]

Here is the Schaller link, The only thing that concerns me is the 1:12 ratio, but I suppose if they lock you wont be turning them much anyway. I wish the model with the nut on the btm had the same screw hole layout, but this top mount should be fine, just pricey...Scaller PN 7502NI or 7502CH (chrome or nickel)

 

http://guitar-machin...tikel-Liste.htm

The 1:12 ratio is still more then adequate for fine tuning - I had a set of locking sperzels with a 1:12 on a partscaster and it was a piece of cake to dial in

[jredbone]

I guess I'm in the minority here but the Grovers on my 535 seem fine..My 2 cents..

I also use the Grover lockers on an Epi LP and love them, thats why I started this discussion. I agree that Schaller will still probably get most votes for overall quality but when I saw the price for lockers compared to what I spent for Grovers I had to get more info. The main problem for me is not making a second set of holes in the headstock which i would have to do with Grovers. I like the lockers because I bend a lot and am just not good at changing the strings and they do make a huge tuning difference on the LP.

[smurph1]

My 2 cents here..I bend a lot too..My style is bluesy..I've never used locking tuners..Never felt the need, just kept the nut properly lubricated and fresh strings on the git..and all is well..

[jredbone]

Yeah, I am pretty bluesy too and the lockers just seemed to make a big difference on the LP. With my 535 I seem to bend them out of tune too easily. It was just set up at the factory so I cant think of why else it wouldnt hold the tuning very well. Strings are Gibson Vintage Reissue 10's. On top of the tuning I just dont like to change the strings very much and the lockers make it very quick and easy.

[Guest HRB853370]

Bending strings, even more than a whole step, should not put your guitar out of tune, even with standard Grovers if its strung properly. But if you play a strat with a whammy bar and do some serious diving, well, you might want locking tuners.

[GuitArtMan]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - 99% of tuning problems are the nut, not the tuners. The other 1% are stringing problems. That said, I generally prefer Schallers to Grovers, but if the guitar already has Grovers on it I wouldn't bother to change them - they are a fine tuner.

[Sven]

The ratio is more of a concern than you might think. I put some on a Fender,and I didn't like the low ratio at all. Something to consider before you buy.

[the jayce]

I guess I'm in the minority here but the Grovers on my 535 seem fine..My 2 cents..

I'm with you smurf, i have a couple guitars with the grovers and i like them better than all the other stuff out there. I really dont see all the fuss in tuners though, as long as whatever is there is tuning the guitar and holding tune i dont give them a second thought, and i sure wouldnt spend any extra time and money on such a small detail of the guitar.

[jredbone]

I know, I know....This is a 2004 535 fresh set-up at the factory, bone nut, new tailpiece, and this is how I string them. Maybe I am not winding the correct amount around the peg? With this method it is supposed to eliminate concern about that but I still wind at least three times around. I dont get any pinching at the nut when tuning so that should be ok I would think. I just dont know where else to look for a solution....

[Sven]

Maybe I am not winding the correct amount around the peg? With this method it is supposed to eliminate concern about that but I still wind at least three times around.

 

That's too many. 3 times should be max, and then only on the top 2 strings. Also, I never liked that tie-off method. It creates more problems than it solves, and makes it a bitch to remove the strings. T'o be fair, I was taught to do it that way, too.

 

Since, I've learned a better way. I just put the string through the tuner and, with appropriate slack, wind 'em. The first 180 goes on top of the string, the rest go under. 1 1/2 to 2 winds total, with a little more on the high E and B. Also, I put the GHS white graphite lube in the nut slots.

[jredbone]

 

That's too many. 3 times should be max, and then only on the top 2 strings. Also, I never liked that tie-off method. It creates more problems than it solves, and makes it a bitch to remove the strings. T'o be fair, I was taught to do it that way, too.

 

Since, I've learned a better way. I just put the string through the tuner and, with appropriate slack, wind 'em. The first 180 goes on top of the string, the rest go under. 1 1/2 to 2 winds total, with a little more on the high E and B. Also, I put the GHS white graphite lube in the nut slots.

So maybe I am getting a little slip...I will try the straight winding and the graphite lube. I am pretty sure the nut is ok, I dont hear or feel any pinching but I know it can cause a problem if it is.