jredbone Posted February 28, 2012 Author Posted February 28, 2012 I'm with you smurf, i have a couple guitars with the grovers and i like them better than all the other stuff out there. I really dont see all the fuss in tuners though, as long as whatever is there is tuning the guitar and holding tune i dont give them a second thought, and i sure wouldnt spend any extra time and money on such a small detail of the guitar. I love the Grovers too, I have them on my LP, I just didnt want to make a new set of screw holes in the head stock so i started looking at the Schaller drop in replacement lockers and thought I would see if there was any issues or concerns with anyone here. Lots of knowledgeable folks here.
the jayce Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 I love the Grovers too, I have them on my LP, I just didnt want to make a new set of screw holes in the head stock so i started looking at the Schaller drop in replacement lockers and thought I would see if there was any issues or concerns with anyone here. Lots of knowledgeable folks here. Yeah, I dont blame you there. I wouldnt want to have to start drilling new holes. I'm sure what ever you decide to put on there will be fine. Most tuners are pretty good, and reletively dont ever cause any problems. Usually tunning problems are the nut is dry. add a little nut grease and the problem goes away basically every time. Good luck in your venture!
jredbone Posted March 1, 2012 Author Posted March 1, 2012 Bought some Nut Sauce, hope that does the trick...I agree, I think most name brand tuners will work fine if not abused. Between Grover and Schaller i think both are great tuners, I was just not looking forward to the new holes and also the cost of the Schaller lockers is outragious. If the Nut Sauce works i will probably leave the tuners alone. I just didnt know where else to go to solve my tuning issue. I think the std winding will help too. The tie off method seems to sometimes leave what looks like a loose end at the peg where you fold it back, which I am sure can slip too. God I hope the Nut Sauce works, I love this guitar...
DetroitBlues Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Just to add, I firmly believe locking tuners are a waste of money. When you properly install new strings on a set of tuners that don't have any play in them, the strings stay in tune. I'm a heavy string bender. I do half-step, whole step, and 1 1/2 step bends on my G, B, and high E strings. Never has tuning been an issue. Fresh strings need to be stretched and broken in as well as properly routed through the tuner posts.. Like this: http://www.fretnotgu...ng-changing.php And when you turn the tuning peg, turn it so it turns the posts from the center up and out (Counter clockwise on the E A D strings, clockwise on the G, B, E)
kbp810 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Just to add, I firmly believe locking tuners are a waste of money. Looking at it from solely a tuning stability standpoint... perhaps - but there is certainly still value in the ease of changing strings with them. I'm not one of those guys (like so many of you are!) that can change a string on the fly mid-song blind folded and with one hand tied behind my back.... with a locking tuner, you just slip the string through, lock it in place, and trim of the remaineder; a half to three-quarter turn or so of the key and your in tune and good to go. That being said... I don't have locking tuners on my 157 and have no intentions of changing them out - just saying that going forward if I had a choice between the two, I'd probably lean more towards locking.
kbp810 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 The ratio is more of a concern than you might think. I put some on a Fender,and I didn't like the low ratio at all. Something to consider before you buy. It still depends on the quality and stability of the tuner... 12 turns of the key to every 1 revolution of the tuning peg is still plenty of slow moving travel - but if there is some wiggle or give to the mechanism (or something else in the chain), it isn't going to much matter either way.
DetroitBlues Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 It still depends on the quality and stability of the tuner... 12 turns of the key to every 1 revolution of the tuning peg is still plenty of slow moving travel - but if there is some wiggle or give to the mechanism (or something else in the chain), it isn't going to much matter either way. Tuning up versus tuning down helps. Always tune up to pitch, not down. So if a string is a little sharp, tune it down to be flat, then tune up until its right. This keeps the tension on the tuner, so if you have low ratio tuners or tuners that wiggle a bit (I've only had that issue on really low end squires and other cheap budget guitars) this will help make sure you stay in tune.
jredbone Posted March 1, 2012 Author Posted March 1, 2012 Yeah, I too am not a stringing expert and the ease of changing is probably just as much a reason to change as the tuning. I thought I would get better over time but I havent, not much anyway. Seems after all the feedback and pics my problem is slack at the peg and/or a pinching nut. Whether its the straight wind or tied back I never see any slack at the actual bend of the string in pictures of properly strung guitars. Mine dont look quite as snug so i am going to start there and lube the nut. Being a drummer was so easy...
Guest HRB853370 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 I have Schaller tuners on my 2000 H150. I really like them, very quality parts. I would never switch them out to Grovers, as that would be a stepdown (IMO). Sad that Heritage doesn't install them at the factory anymore.
DetroitBlues Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Yeah, I too am not a stringing expert and the ease of changing is probably just as much a reason to change as the tuning. I thought I would get better over time but I havent, not much anyway. Seems after all the feedback and pics my problem is slack at the peg and/or a pinching nut. Whether its the straight wind or tied back I never see any slack at the actual bend of the string in pictures of properly strung guitars. Mine dont look quite as snug so i am going to start there and lube the nut. Being a drummer was so easy... Either get some stuff called Nut Sauce, or you can be cheap like me and just rub a pencil lead in the slot....
tbonesullivan Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Locking tuners do make changing strings go a lot faster, and they help keep a uniform string angle at the nut. Also even with proper wrapping, if you use a tremolo the changes in tension can cause stretching/slippage around the post. If you've got a trem, they are definitely beneficial, IMHO. If you don't, pretty superfluous. I've got two guitars I bought used that were retrofitted with locking tuners, and I honestly have no idea why. It isn't like it takes that much longer to put on the strings by winding.
jredbone Posted March 1, 2012 Author Posted March 1, 2012 I have Schaller tuners on my 2000 H150. I really like them, very quality parts. I would never switch them out to Grovers, as that would be a stepdown (IMO). Sad that Heritage doesn't install them at the factory anymore. Mine is an 04 535, it has Schallers, they are just not lockers
jredbone Posted March 1, 2012 Author Posted March 1, 2012 Either get some stuff called Nut Sauce, or you can be cheap like me and just rub a pencil lead in the slot.... I bought some Nut Sauce yesterday, i will try that and to do a better job of winding.
Kuz Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 I've said it before and I'll say it again - 99% of tuning problems are the nut, not the tuners. The other 1% are stringing problems. That said, I generally prefer Schallers to Grovers, but if the guitar already has Grovers on it I wouldn't bother to change them - they are a fine tuner. +1 on the nut, not the tuners!
the jayce Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Bought some Nut Sauce, hope that does the trick...I agree, I think most name brand tuners will work fine if not abused. Between Grover and Schaller i think both are great tuners, I was just not looking forward to the new holes and also the cost of the Schaller lockers is outragious. If the Nut Sauce works i will probably leave the tuners alone. I just didnt know where else to go to solve my tuning issue. I think the std winding will help too. The tie off method seems to sometimes leave what looks like a loose end at the peg where you fold it back, which I am sure can slip too. God I hope the Nut Sauce works, I love this guitar... Yep greasing up the nut should take care of the problem, I agree with the majority to that about 2 -3 winds is about right. I have never done the tie method personally, but after 25 years of doing it the traditional way with no problems i personally think it would be more trouble than its worth. Hope the sauce does the trick for ya!
the jayce Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Just to add, I firmly believe locking tuners are a waste of money. When you properly install new strings on a set of tuners that don't have any play in them, the strings stay in tune. I'm a heavy string bender. I do half-step, whole step, and 1 1/2 step bends on my G, B, and high E strings. Never has tuning been an issue. Fresh strings need to be stretched and broken in as well as properly routed through the tuner posts.. Like this: http://www.fretnotgu...ng-changing.php And when you turn the tuning peg, turn it so it turns the posts from the center up and out (Counter clockwise on the E A D strings, clockwise on the G, B, E) I think i agree with the lockers being unimportant and not worthy of thier extra cost. I bought a delux hss american strat in 99' new and still have the guitar and only used it's locking feature on the tuners once. To me thier just bulky , look tacky, and in the way of the rest of the tuner. Give me a set of open back vintage tuners anyday over them. Frankly if just find locking tuners wierd, all they really do is hold the string when you wind it???? Not much of a bennefit for what they cost.
Sven Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 OK, this is the method that I said is incorrect. And unnecessarily difficult to remove. And it creates tuning problems. BTW -- I did not say that a 12:1 tuner would be an issue because of looseness or because it would not tune or hold properly. The issue is that the feel is very much different than a 16:1 or 18:1. Fine tuning is not as easy, either. You may or may not like them.
DetroitBlues Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 OK, this is the method that I said is incorrect. And unnecessarily difficult to remove. And it creates tuning problems. BTW -- I did not say that a 12:1 tuner would be an issue because of looseness or because it would not tune or hold properly. The issue is that the feel is very much different than a 16:1 or 18:1. Fine tuning is not as easy, either. You may or may not like them. We're going to have to agree to disagree then... I actually believe this is the best way. Being difficult to remove demonstrates how secure the strings are being held in place to prevent slipping....
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