Great Bogner Shiva vs Axe-Fx Shiva shoot out

[Kuz]

OK, I thought this would be fun.

 

I am no Andy Timmons, but I enjoy his song "Cry For You". Each clip is long so I buy the first round at PSP if you actually listen and give an answer!!!!

 

-I made two sound clips:

 

A REAL Bogner Shiva mic'd with a REAL SM57 one inch off cap edge of a 2x12 Bogner Closed cab with Vintage 30 speakers, with my El Capsitan Delay in the effects loop using Steiner cables. The distortion and reverb are from the Bogner Shiva amp. Guitar was my Yoder 150.

 

A Bogner Shiva modeled from the Axe-Fx, mic'd with a virtual SM57 one inch off cap edge of a virtual 2x12 Bogner Closed Back cab with virtual Vintage 30 speakers, using the same Steiner Cable, all distortion is from the modeled Shiva with Axe-Fx Delay & Reverb. Guitar was my Yoder 150.

 

 

NO EQ OR POST MIXING was used

 

SO THE POLL QUESTION IS..... WHICH IS THE REAL BOGNER SHIVA AND/OR WHICH CLIP'S AMP SOUNDS BETTER????

 

Let's not take this so serious and have some fun!!!

 

Thanks,

 

John

 

Clip 1

http://soundcloud.co...z/cry-for-you-1

 

Clip 2

http://soundcloud.co...z/cry-for-you-2

[pegleg32]

I listened to one and then the other in 30 second intervals. I can tell a slight difference in sounds, but it is so slight as to be not worth talking about. I would first think I liked one better then I would listen to another segment and like it better. I think it was more because of your choice of notes that I liked one over the other then because of any difference in sound. Just to make a guess, I think #2 was the Axe. Either way it was a pleasant way to spend 15 minutes - Thanks John.

[Kuz]

I listened to one and then the other in 30 second intervals. I can tell a slight difference in sounds, but it is so slight as to be not worth talking about. I would first think I liked one better then I would listen to another segment and like it better. I think it was more because of your choice of notes that I liked one over the other then because of any difference in sound. Just to make a guess, I think #2 was the Axe. Either way it was a pleasant way to spend 15 minutes - Thanks John.

 

Don't forget to vote in poll, please. Thanks!

[kbp810]

Hmm... both sound great, #2 seems perhaps just a touch warmer sounding, but #1 seems to have a tad longer and softer note decay.

 

I'd say #1 is the better sounding to my ears, and if I had to choose which is which, it's a tough call but I'd say #2 is the axe

 

In either case, excellent playing once again Kuz

[Steiner]

Very Nice Kuz. Are you sure you used the same cable each time? There's a little drift... Nah! JK.

 

I listened to both. Unfortunately, the POS speakers on the monitor don't do much for the essence of the guitar. It sounds darn good! I can't discern the difference. Can I vote for both?

[mars_hall]

I'd say 2 is probably the real amp. 1 appears more compressed.

[smokedtires]

Hmm... both sound great, #2 seems perhaps just a touch warmer sounding, but #1 seems to have a tad longer and softer note decay.

 

I'd say #1 is the better sounding to my ears, and if I had to choose which is which, it's a tough call but I'd say #2 is the axe

 

In either case, excellent playing once again Kuz

 

 

Totally agree!

[Kuz]

Thanks guys, keep the votes and comments coming.

 

So far it's the "usual suspects" that comment on my clips (you must be easily amused, but I REALLY appreciate it!!!).

 

Hopefully we will hear from some others too!!!!

[knopfler74]

First off, really nice playing. I dug it!

 

Okay, here's my take on it.

 

Clip 1 - Bogner

Clip 2 - AXE FX

 

I think, and I stress, think that the first clip was a little warmer and had a hair more weight on the front of each note, which makes me think it's the amp. It also felt less controlled than the second clip, which also makes me think it's the real amp.

 

That being said, both those sounds are awesome, and I'd be more than happy to put either on a record. The AXE, whichever one it is, sounds awesome!

[TalismanRich]

Clip one has a WHOLE lot more high end, Not knowing what you might have used for micing up the amp, I'm guessing the #2 is the amp and #1 is the Axe.

 

The second clip also also seems to get that modulation when you get two slightly dissonant notes at high drive through a speaker.

[Kuz]

Rich, I stated that I used a Sure SM57 for mic'ing the real amp and a virtual SM57 for the Axe-Fx.

 

[yoslate]

I never get this sort of thing right! That having been said: No. 1 is the Axe-Fx. No. 2 is the real thing. I agree with Mark's observation, and No. 2 just sounds like it's moving actual air. I find No. 2 the superior sounding rig. So if I'm wrong, I guess I'll have to eat it, eBay everything, and get an Axe-Fx. Also, I'll never hear the end of it from John, I suspect. This one was fun! Thanks for the efforts, John. And ditto what I'd said to you, about your playing, the last time I p.m.'d you. Well done, man! If I fouled this up, I'll blame it on four hours under headphones, mixing today. My ears are pretty compressed!

[JeffB]

Good sounds and playing.

As for the poll, Im pretty much stumped. I couldnt pick what was what.

Track 1 has what I hear as digital noise(A kind of harshness and everything tucking in on itself and becoming congested in the bass but the upper mids are present but a bit ragged.....I know what I mean) in the guitar sound, but at the same time, I hear V30s as a little like that, just kind of similar, when not run at a decent volume, ie; not competing with a drummer. Not so much of the tucked in bass thing but a harshness or raggedness in the upper mids that doesnt smooth out til theres some really good volume pushing the speaker.

Track 2 is a more present guitar sound, seems more up front in the mix even though it appears to be at the same volume. I like track 2 better I think. But if you presented either alone I would be impressed with what you did.

Ive never played a Bogner Shiva so other than youtube clips I have no reference

When you did the tweed deluxe clips I could hear something that at 1st seemed like the mic pointed to close to the cone but there was too much bass of the congested kind and knowing your love for your AxeFX, I had a suspicion that you were testing us out. But they sounded good anyway.

When presented with an option to chose in this thread, I just like track 2 better regardless of how it was recorded. Its smoother and the guitar has more presence and a more lively presence. I just dont know if it is the AxeFx or the Bogner Shiva.

 

 

 

Just spent more time listening and I can only add that I definitely like track 2 better and that your playing on both is really good.

[TalismanRich]

I guess I should have read all the particulars, I just pulled up the files and plugged in the headphones. Still doesn't change my vote, tho.

 

As for the playing, VERY nice. As with most of these types of deals, after I do my listening for the differences, I end up with my eyes closed and listening to the playing. On that, I like what you were doing at the end of #2 around 6 mins or so. That sounds really good.

 

I say put Take 2 on the CD release!

[DetroitBlues]

#1 has a little hiss to the guitar sound that reminds me of a mic'd up speaker. But both sound really good, and if you didn't know any better, you'd swear they were the same.

[LK155]

John,

Very nicely done.

I'm not going to pick an answer, 'cause how can you?

The only difference I think I detect is that clip#2 has the guitar just a bit more in-your-face, or maybe projects a bit more upper mids and treble.

But, never having heard either a Bogner or an Axe, there's no way for me to pick.

 

If I'm right about the subtle differences in sound, no doubt there's some minor tweaking that could take place on the Axe to make them match exactly.

[barrymclark]

I'm gonna go with one being the Bogner and two being the Axe-Fx. That's just a hunch.

[schundog]

I'd say 2 is probably the real amp. 1 appears more compressed.

 

I agree with Mark and Yoslate. If I'm wrong, hey, at least I'm in good company! haha. Great playing, as always, friend.

[H]

I'm going with the hidden option: you sold the Bogner and the Axe-FX and bought a Kemper

[Kuz]

No, I promise one of them is a real Bogner Shiva and the other is a Axe-Fx modeled Bogner Shiva.

 

 

Thanks for all the responses.

 

I will give the answers tonight!!!!

[barrymclark]

The reason I chose like I did is there's mush in it I tend to associate with tubes and a clarity to #2 I tend to associate with better modellers.

 

In saying that, they both sound good. Neither one would get you kicked out of Tone of the Month Club. In fact, on its own, it'd be hard to say without prior knowledge that were were even hearing a Bogner Shiva and the AxeFx. It could honestly be about anything.

[JeffB]

No, I promise one of them is a real Bogner Shiva and the other is a Axe-Fx modeled Bogner Shiva.

 

 

Thanks for all the responses.

 

I will give the answers tonight!!!!

Ok, its tonight .

 

I gotta know!

 

Started thinking track one might be the Bogner because of mic placement and the furtherer away sound. Closer micing, less dynamic spread. More air and noise from the amp. Even convinced myself it sounded like an sm57 for a while, 'til I realised I was just talking myself into it.

I wouldnt have a clue which is which

 

Strangely compelling test you presented Kuz.

 

Still think I like the guitar sound on tr2 better though Im listening to tr1 right now and it sounds alright.

I like what you do on track 2 at about the 5:25 mark onward. Cool riffage.

[DetroitBlues]

I never get this sort of thing right! That having been said: No. 1 is the Axe-Fx. No. 2 is the real thing. I agree with Mark's observation, and No. 2 just sounds like it's moving actual air. I find No. 2 the superior sounding rig. So if I'm wrong, I guess I'll have to eat it, eBay everything, and get an Axe-Fx. Also, I'll never hear the end of it from John, I suspect. This one was fun! Thanks for the efforts, John. And ditto what I'd said to you, about your playing, the last time I p.m.'d you. Well done, man! If I fouled this up, I'll blame it on four hours under headphones, mixing today. My ears are pretty compressed!

 

But you won't be giggin with it... Its purely a recording tool... I seriously doubt its good for stage use....

[JeffB]

 

But you won't be giggin with it... Its purely a recording tool... I seriously doubt its good for stage use....

 

Quite wrong DB. Lots of people using them for live work. Check you tube for examples.

[fxdx99]

Listened to clip 1 all the way thru (in order to get my free Bells...) and voted for clip 2 after hearing the first measure. Still listening to clip 2 as I type this. Nice playing, John - that's a long song to play thru, well done. My own limited experience is that my amps recorded sound different than they do live... voicings that I think are killer while playing turn out not so well on playback and vice-versa. Lots of variables. Axe-fx certainly sounds good and works really well for recording. Silent in the studio, consistent return to a voicing, lots of variation. If I recorded more I'd look at one... well, maybe. Guess I'd be more inclined to buy more amps, but it is a great tool.

 

Whoa - at the end of clip 2 and even if it isn't the really amp, it sounds better and your playing at the end is full of passion. That's as good of a solo as I've ever heard you play, John. Phew - nice stuff. I'm gonna go listen to 2 again now.