cod65 Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 Well ,I managed to sell all my guitars and pay some bills, but unfortunately the 575 suffered a complete headstock snap on its way to Vermont. Im making a claim to UPS, but not very hopeful about that, since I skipped insurance. I thought 70$ shipping was already soaking me - a 'false economy'. I really screwed myself . Let this be a lesson to somebody. I packed real well, in a very substantial case, everywhere but behind the headstock. Another wierd thing is that the toggle switch is apparently inside the body. I don't understand how that happened without apparent damage, unless it rattle loose. The packaging and case are apparently undamaged. Now I have to get what's left of it back here to California and not break the top. Im not sure how to proceed. Should I make a claim first ? Any advice much aprec. cod
Jim W Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 That's a damn shame. On the small bright side, it is a very clean looking break, and there's lots of skilled luthiers that can repair it and blend it in. I would almost lean to working with whoever bought it getting it repaired and you refunding them some agreed upon amount if they would do it.
Guest HRB853370 Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 Damn UPS I hate them. They break anything and everything. The way they throw packages around, this does not surprise me. I have been very very lucky in ALL of my guitar buying and selling experiences. All have arrived unscathed. But it only takes one to break your heart as you mentioned. I guess the lesson learned here is that skipping insurance can bite you in the rear if something does happen. I don't know if filing a claim would do any good if it was not insured. I think you assume that risk if you don't insure it, even if its their fault.
FredZepp Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 Heartbreaking pics indeed. I'm sorry to hear that you've had this issue come up. Be assured that it can be repaired to a level where it is an awesome instrument once again. If I were you, I'd take the time to read the details of UPS's damage policies... The fact that there is no damage to the exterior may play into it, but I really don't know about what the possibilities are with their claim system.
MartyGrass Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 I feel your pain. I had an Eagle do this. The case design favors snapping the neck at the headstock when the case is dropped on its back. The high end of the neck is supported almost up to the headstock, and the headstock has no support, especially under it. This can cause decapitation with rapid deceleration. The headstock of Heritage's archtops are heavier than the solid bodies, and the tuning pegs add to the mass. The headstock-neck junction is the vulnerable point. To make things worse, it is customary to loosen the guitar strings before shipping. String tension actually helps prevents this kind of break but would have the opposite effect if the case was dropped on its front. What I do is pack the guitar case tightly with bubble wrap so the headstock cannot move. I would be very surprised if UPS pays you a cent for this tragedy. It's difficult enough to collect when you have insurance. There are a couple of luthiers in the Kalamazoo area who can reneck it. Both are substantially cheaper than a factory job. Still, you're looking at about $600. A headstock repair, if possible, should be a heck of a lot cheaper.
tulk1 Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 FRAK!!! That is hard to look at. Got to wonder how that can happen inside an HSC inside a box packed well. What kind of impact must it have sustained? And you can trash UPS for it, but truth is it could happen with any of the carriers. Mostly it's that darned 17 degree peghead. But then, that also helps make them what they are. Hope UPS does the right thing and fesses up.
cod65 Posted March 8, 2012 Author Posted March 8, 2012 Thanks all for the support. It really does make me feel better. I'm trying to take the high road here and think it was a mistake for me to empty out my Heritage stable because of economics. But I was desperate. I'm gonna have it fixed right, eventually and I'm gonna keep it. The IRS or whomever can try to pry it out of my warm, living hands. I'm not too hopeful on any restitution either. . Let's hope on the way back it doesn't get a broken top! But my 'client' said my packing was topnotch otherwise. The ironic thing is the guy I bought it from packed it in a tiny bit of bubblewrap inside a shitty form-fit plastic case- with barely any foam and it survived perfectly- I go out of my way to find a deluxe hardshell case, big dreadnaught size box, pack it well, and pffft! Live and Learn . Live and Learn Live and Learn . Live and Learn Live and Learn . Live and Learn Live and Learn . Live and Learn Live and Learn . Live and Learn Live and Learn . Live and Learn Live and Learn . Live and Learn..........
Gitfiddler Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 I feel your pain. I had an Eagle do this. The case design favors snapping the neck at the headstock when the case is dropped on its back. The high end of the neck is supported almost up to the headstock, and the headstock has no support, especially under it. This can cause decapitation with rapid deceleration. The headstock of Heritage's archtops are heavier than the solid bodies, and the tuning pegs add to the mass. The headstock-neck junction is the vulnerable point. To make things worse, it is customary to loosen the guitar strings before shipping. String tension actually helps prevents this kind of break but would have the opposite effect if the case was dropped on its front. What I do is pack the guitar case tightly with bubble wrap so the headstock cannot move. I would be very surprised if UPS pays you a cent for this tragedy. It's difficult enough to collect when you have insurance. There are a couple of luthiers in the Kalamazoo area who can reneck it. Both are substantially cheaper than a factory job. Still, you're looking at about $600. A headstock repair, if possible, should be a heck of a lot cheaper. That makes perfect sense to me. And if there was enough force (velocity or speed change/delta V) to the sudden backwards fall, it might explain why the toggle switch dropped inside the guitar. Man, that really is difficult to look at. If it were mine, I'd consider a neck replacment. When done well, they are totally inconspicuous. A headstock repair can still be visible. We've seen a couple of neck replacements here over the past couple of years. Pretty impressive results as I recall. Good luck with whatever you decide.
MartyGrass Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 I received a shipment from USPS that simply had a label stuck to the Heritage case. No box it all. And no problem.
DetroitBlues Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 I received a shipment from USPS that simply had a label stuck to the Heritage case. No box it all. And no problem. Oh my! was it just a case? There is no way I'd ever ship an item in just its case unless it was a flight case!
Comancheplayer Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 I hope you didn't use a UPS store to ship. If so you are out of luck, I learned this with a Mesa Mark V amp that I sold, UPS literally broke the amps shell. If you use a UPS store, and don't get insurance, they become the shipper not you and you lose all rights to a claim. It is the store that has to initiate the claim on your behalf, and without insurance they're not motivated to help you. Seriously, Good luck.
Comancheplayer Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 Almost forgot, something else a UPS store does that a terminal doesn't. They had you sign a waiver agreeing that you packed the item sufficiently. They will use that against you saying they didn't pack it so it's not they're fault.
cod65 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Posted March 9, 2012 I actually did go right to the UPS terminal, since its nearby. I'm making a claim, however slim the chance. My main concern now really is if I let those gorillas at UPS at it an additional times for inspection- are they gonna make it worse ? I suppose everything is well-documented at this point. I suppose I should also make sure it is insured on the way back- which his like insult-to-injury- ok- I said I was not going to dwell on this but thks for all the pointers ...
cod65 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Posted March 9, 2012 Somebody take a look inside a real 575 cas and tell me if there isnt the same open-air gap behind the headstock ?
Guest HRB853370 Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I had a guy in New Jersey tell me that he was going to ship a 525 through a UPS store and they told him if he did not use one of their brand new guitar boxes, they could deny the claim. Isn't that a crock of turds?
SouthpawGuy Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Heartbreaking indeed. Hope you get the problem resolved or have it repaired so it's playable again.
TalismanRich Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 It almost looks like they stood the box up and let drop straight back. That would be really hard on an unsupported headstock. I can see that happening if someone is pulling a box off a pile and dropping it on to a conveyor. I bought a condenser microphone a while back and when it arrived the whole element was just hanging inside the screen. Luckily the insurance paid enough to cover the loss for the seller.
yoslate Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 '65, Just showed the pics to my wife, and even she was sympathetic! I'm currently apprenticing to a luthier who's really good at headstock repair. And though I'm certainly no expert, should you decide to fix that one, you might be able to get a good repair there. That's a clean break, with a lot of glue-able surface to work with, though jigging it might prove problematic, from what I can tell of the pictures. I'll show the pics to Tom tomorrow, to see what he thinks, and I'll get back to you, for what that may or may not be worth. Sorry!
cod65 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Posted March 9, 2012 nice. I love the HOC. This is the kind of community the world needs more of.
Blunote Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 This really pisses me off. Regardless of insurance, the Uniform Commercial Code requires that anyone receiving a bailment is required to take a reasonable level of care to protect it; especially if it's a bailment for hire. I'm sure there's a lawyer or two among us who are more knowledgeable than I. Even so, I have studied business law, and some of those lessons informed me that even when companies try to deny that basic UCC requirement in their Ts & Cs, courts still rule for plaintiffs based on public policy arguments. Bottom line is: When something is delvered into your posessession, you are obliged to take a reasonable level of care to protect it. That expectation of reasonable care is greater when the bailee is specifically paid to safeguard, or provide services related to it. Something happened to this instrument that was significant enough to push the toggle switch through the top of the guitar. In my vew, that makes it rather difficult, even preposterous for UPS to claim they have taken reasonable care of it. In my view, they ought to repair it whether you bought additional insurance or not. It seems to me that If they're unwilling to take responsibility for the safe conveyance of goods trusted to them, they should either get out of the business or limit themselves to the transport of hay bales. Personally, I'd pay the $20 or whatever it costs to make my case in small claimes court. Win or lose, at least I'd have a forum to make my case and get a fair settlement.
cod65 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Posted March 9, 2012 hehe. I'm definitely up for it if its really only 20$ and I don't need to travel far. I'm not an Ayn Rand 'devotee', but Gary Cooper is pretty convincing. If I could get a suit and tie like that I might win!:
the jayce Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I have a relative that works for a huge shipping company, and they basically told me those packages exchange so many hands so rapidly the workers couldnt careless if anything is fragile or not, that stuff gets whipped all around and stacked and dropped dozens of times through out it's trip. her recomendation for big expensive very fragile packages is overnight, cuts it's phisical handling by others by about 75% and add your insurance. Otherwise your taking a huge gamble. she has 12 years in this field and I believe her. Guitars are to fragile and to expensive to take any other chances for shipping in my opinion.
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