lefty blues: caution: heartbreaking damage photos

[donnie]

You can roll over if you like, or buy into that lawyer crap. But I still think that when you pay someone to perform a service, they have some basic undeniable responsibilies. Cod65 paid UPS to deliver the guitar. He didn't tell them to deliver any thing less, or authorize them to damage it. At the very least, he deserves a refund of what he paid since they clearly failed to perform their end of the bargain.

 

My understanding of UCC law is that while common carriers can limit their liability to an amount stated on the shipping contract, they cannot limit liability arising from their own negligence.

 

Cod65 can argue that it's unconsionable for UPS To accept payment for the transport of goods and then deny responisbility for the damage they themselves caused. In this case, he can demonstrate that the guitar was packed in a usual and customary way for transport before it was given over to be broken BY THEM.

 

If UPS chooses not to take reasonable care of such goods, then they should be willing to suffer the consequences of their own actions or stop providing the service.

 

 

"Find out just what the people will submit to and you have found

out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon

them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words

or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the

endurance of those whom they oppress."

Frederick Douglass (1817? - 1895)

 

 

Right...but please help me understand exactly how you intend to get UPS to own up to their responsibilities here?

 

Patiently explain applicable law to them?

 

Purty please?

 

And then they say oh heck yeah, you're right-here you go!?

 

That's the problem. They know the law and they know their responsibilities. They just don't care unless you spend big bucks forcing them to and they know you won't do that.

[Blunote]

Donnie,

If UPS denied my claim, I'd toddle on down to the county courthouse and file a small claims suit. From what I hear, it involves filling out a pretty simple form and paying and a modest filing fee ($20 in many places). Small claims court is pretty informal, typically not requiring the presence of an attorney, and they process their caseload pretty quickly.

 

UPS would then be obliged to pay someone to show up in court to defend their decision or refute my assertions. At that point, they might just decide to forego that and settle with me.

 

Or not.

 

In which case, I'd make my case in front of a Judge. If the Judge ruled for me, then I'd be awarded some amount of money that I could use to repair or reimburse myself for what I spent repairing the instrument. If the Judge disagreed, then it's cost me $20 for the satisfaction of knowing I had the matter considered in a fair and impartial manner.

 

I could then go to my grave in peace secure in the knowledge that I'd done my part to preserve truth, justice and the American way.

[donnie]

Donnie,

If UPS denied my claim, I'd toddle on down to the county courthouse and file a small claims suit. From what I hear, it involves filling out a pretty simple form and paying and a modest filing fee ($20 in many places). Small claims court is pretty informal, typically not requiring the presence of an attorney, and they process their caseload pretty quickly.

 

UPS would then be obliged to pay someone to show up in court to defend their decision or refute my assertions. At that point, they might just decide to forego that and settle with me.

 

Or not.

 

In which case, I'd make my case in front of a Judge. If the Judge ruled for me, then I'd be awarded some amount of money that I could use to repair or reimburse myself for what I spent repairing the instrument. If the Judge disagreed, then it's cost me $20 for the satisfaction of knowing I had the matter considered in a fair and impartial manner.

 

I could then go to my grave in peace secure in the knowledge that I'd done my part to preserve truth, justice and the American way.

 

That's a good idea except that their fine print declares that any suit must be filed and served at their home office location. Isn't that Memphis or something like that?

[Guest HRB853370]

 

That's a good idea except that their fine print declares that any suit must be filed and served at their home office location. Isn't that Memphis or something like that?

 

Atlanta GA

[Guest HRB853370]

 

Their little clauses cannot override federal law.

 

As far as a lawyer is concerned, UPS will be the one paying him, so that's a non-issue.

 

No, their loopholes are designed to skirt around the law, not override it. You think they don't have high paid attorneys at UPS who know every nuance of the law? Ha, think again. UPS used to be one of my clients when I sold intellectual property software. They have so many patents on their processes, and their attorneys defend them vigorously.

 

Trust me, I hate what the big companies do to individuals too. But going against them in court would be an expensive waste of time. Better off talking to the claims department to find out if they would offer any partial compensation.

[Guest HRB853370]

 

No, their loopholes are designed to skirt around the law, not override it. You think they don't have high paid attorneys at UPS who know every nuance of the law? Ha, think again. UPS used to be one of my clients when I sold intellectual property software. They have so many patents on their processes, and their attorneys defend them vigorously.

 

Trust me, I hate what the big companies do to individuals too. But going against them in court would be an expensive waste of time. Better off talking to the claims department to find out if they would offer any partial compensation.

 

I think they even have a patent on how to properly toss boxes around so as to make sure the contents get damaged.

[Blunote]

 

That's a good idea except that their fine print declares that any suit must be filed and served at their home office location. Isn't that Memphis or something like that?

Unless the fine print is held to unconscionable.

 

I think it could be argued that when a company like UPS, having a coast to coast presence puts that kind of language in it's fine print, that it unreasonably, or unconsciounably limits a consumer's ability to seek redress of grievances.

 

My point is that companies often present these one sided "all or nothing" contracts in consumer transactions that don't merit major negotiation of terms to that degree. When that happens, courts may or may not choose to enforce them based on it's assessment of whether those terms are reasonable to the situation and whether the consumer really had an opportunity for negotiation.

 

We've probably all seen contracts where the seller reserve right to change or amend the terms at any time. From what I've read, the renders the entire sales agreement unenforceable.

 

In any event, I'd be willing to find out.

[Guest HRB853370]

Unless the fine print is held to unconscionable.

 

I think it could be argued that when a company like UPS, having a coast to coast presence puts that kind of language in it's fine print, that it unreasonably, or unconsciounably limits a consumer's ability to seek redress of grievances.

 

My point is that companies often present these one sided "all or nothing" contracts in consumer transactions that don't merit major negotiation of terms to that degree. When that happens, courts may or may not choose to enforce them based on it's assessment of whether those terms are reasonable to the situation and whether the consumer really had an opportunity for negotiation.

 

We've probably all seen contracts where the seller reserve right to change or amend the terms at any time. From what I've read, the renders the entire sales agreement unenforceable.

 

In any event, I'd be willing to find out.

 

If it was fairly easy to sidestep their policies, people would not bother to insure the items they are shipping. Insurance is a huge source of revenue for UPS. They scare people into thinking if they do not pay for the insurance, they will be up the creek without a paddle should the items be damaged. I have not idea how they would treat the situation described in the OP, but like you said, it cannot hurt to find out.

[donnie]

 

If it was fairly easy to sidestep their policies, people would not bother to insure the items they are shipping. Insurance is a huge source of revenue for UPS. They scare people into thinking if they do not pay for the insurance, they will be up the creek without a paddle should the items be damaged. I have not idea how they would treat the situation described in the OP, but like you said, it cannot hurt to find out.

 

 

Slammer,

 

You weren't under the impression that they actually pay up on their insurance were you?

 

Everything I've said assumes that the package was insured.

 

That's where their Department of Denial swings into high gear. It's almost comical to watch them work, except that it's your money flying away. Short of the aforementioned tire tracks it's almost impossible to get them to pay off on their insurance. That's the real rub to me. If their insurance actually paid claims as it should, I wouldn't have so much of a beef with them.

[Alswin]

Wow, that is bad- really bad. I had UPS destroy a Kendrick amp a few years ago, so bad it even broke the output tube and I cut myself pretty bad trying to get it out of the box, was not expecting broken glass and stuck my hand in there- ouch. Kendrick had promised me they would insure it but they did not. UPS would not honor the claim and Kendrick expected me to pay to ship it back to them and accept a "repaired amp". It led to me getting very upset at both UPS and Kendrick. I eventually sold the amp to a guy who wanted to fix it up at a pretty big loss to me.

I learned to make UPS sit here and let me open the package in front of them if it is of any value and telling them I refuse to accept delivery if there are any problems. I've had a lot better luck with fedex although I'm sure they kill stuff too on occasion.

The UPS store does make you sign a waiver, the one I had to sign was when I packed the guitar myself and it said the insurance was void because the UPS store did not pack it themselves although I followed their guidelines and let them inspect the packing job. They still charged me for the insurance, seems like fraud on their part if you ask me. I quit doing business with them years ago. I had all the problems you guys mentioned, having to buy their "special" box, signing waivers etc...

I hope things work out for you with your guitar and I hate to see somehting like that, it is heartbreaking not to mention the fact you got screwed out of the sales money from the guitar and now have to be out more to get a repiared guitar you never wanted to sell in the first place. Best of luck to you.

[bolero]

That really sucks all around.....fwiw I only us the post office to ship, have never had any probs....never had to file a claim though

[Alswin]

That really sucks all around.....fwiw I only us the post office to ship, have never had any probs....never had to file a claim though

I agree, the USPS is usually not in anywhere near the hurry UPS is and they seem to actually not throw packages as bad. I'm almost sure the guitar this thread is centered on was thrown and allowed to slap on the floor. A few of my friends worked at the UPS hub in Richmond which is near my home, This was almost 15 years ago when we were in our early 20's and they have told me what goes on up there. I worked at a walmart distribution center when I was a teen and even though the bosses tell you not to throw packages they face you with what they call productivity. Basically they give you X amount of work you have to perfom in a given time to keep your head off the chopping block. Realistically superman is the only one who can move fast enough to meet these unrealistic goals without cheating and throwing stuff.

Most of the time when loading trailers they build a "wall" for when the boss comes by and leave it a couple feet from the roof of the trailer and just lob everything over the top of the wall until it fill the void and the guy running the conveyor belt/scanner just tips you off when the boss is heading your way. This process is repeated over and over and they just say the load must have settled in transit if ever questioned. Believe me, I've seen this first hand and been forced to do it myself a few days they put me in shipping. Maybe things have changed since 18 years ago but likely they are worse now instead of better. Stuff comes at you so fast off the belt it is hard to keep up even throwing things. Glad I work for myself nowadays.

[Assumer]

sorry to hear about this. you are correct, heart wrenching.