Head stock breaks

[the jayce]

Was just looking at another post here and seen the photo of all the broken headstocks. Just curious as to why heritage and gibby doesnt re-design the back of the neck and add some strength, this problem has only been around since the begining, isnt 60 plus years enough time to tastefully add some wood in the back curve.

 

Martin guitars took care of the problem loooooong ago. Just wanted some opinions as to why not fix the problem.

[DetroitBlues]

The Volute helped with that problem, but the 17 degree headstock pitch is key to Heritage, even though around the same time the volute was around, the angle was changed for a short time to 14.... It wouldn't be a problem either if the neck was made with hardwood, like maple...

[Kuz]

Not to sound like an idiot (because I am not trying to belittle anyone), but if I drop a vase I expect it to break. If I drop a china plate I expect it to break. If I drop a two litter on the roof of my car I expect a dent.

 

Just saying, if I drop a guitar I am expecting it to break. Don't drop your guitar and it won't break.

 

I have probably own 50 guitar in over 25 years..... never dropped one.....never broke a headstock.

[FredZepp]

They tried to address it in the Norlin era of Gibson.. reduced headstock angle,a volute and 3 piece maple necks. But it's not what the players wanted.. . really it has to do with how the trussrod cavity hollows out a weak point at the headstock.

 

I have to agree with Kuz on this one though.. I've owned a lot of guitars, never broke a headstock. And repairs work quite well anyhow....

[NoNameBand]

The angle does more to help the guitar when not broken than it would serve to remove the angle to prevent broken headstocks when dropped.

 

I'm with Kuz and Fred on this one, don't drop your guitar and it won't be an issue.

[MartyGrass]

I agree with the above comments. There are ways to reinforce the vulnerable area. Guitarists are whacky people though. Any change is met with resistance. This is because those who care the most see guitars as more than just a tool.

 

The design of the LP was not about creating an instrument that is shatter resistant. Fender, on the other hand, was all about the ability to replace parts as needed.

[DetroitBlues]

KBP and Smurph have broken headstocks before. I wouldn't have my 140 if Smurph didn't have his do a faceplant off the stand to the cement floor. KBP had a Gibson LP Studio that barely got tapped on the headstock and snapped. I had a Epi LP in Ebony (lot's of black paint on the neck), in the first week of owning it, I replaced the pickups and not paying attention, I raised the guitar up to inspect it and got the headstock smacked with the tip of a ceiling fan. Put a nice size chip, but the headstock did not break.... Most of the breaks I've seen on here in other posts have been related to shipping, not hanging on a wall or taken to a gig...

[111518]

I cracked the headstock on my 355 simply by being a little too involved in my playing and banging it, not super hard, against the arm of the couch I was sitting on ...and, at the time, I was really anal about the way I treated guitars. (Ironic this guitar had been to many gigs without more than a few cymbal dings, but then I stop playing out, go to grad school, and break the neck one night sitting on my couch.) So, granted, they don't break on their own, but, it is also true that it doesn't take much to pop a one piece mahogany neck under tension.

 

There are differences of opinion about the volute. Some argue that the Gibson volute was misplaced structurally and actually caused more broken headstocks than it prevented. My 355 is a '70 and has the volute, and it is the only headstock that I've ever cracked.

[the jayce]

Not to sound like an idiot (because I am not trying to belittle anyone), but if I drop a vase I expect it to break. If I drop a china plate I expect it to break. If I drop a two litter on the roof of my car I expect a dent.

 

Just saying, if I drop a guitar I am expecting it to break. Don't drop your guitar and it won't break.

 

I have probably own 50 guitar in over 25 years..... never dropped one.....never broke a headstock.

I can agree to an extent. But a guitar is instrument that is made to be handled constantly, unlike vases ect. Thier used on stages,homes,garages ect ect and there fore with what one costs for a good one, i feel they should be durable enough for what thier made for,,,,,,,, basically manhandled thier entire life. Cudos for never dropping one! I have come close, but i have had straps come loose ect and have came extremely close. A little extra wood can be the difference you need if and when something may happen.

[the jayce]

The angle does more to help the guitar when not broken than it would serve to remove the angle to prevent broken headstocks when dropped.

 

I'm with Kuz and Fred on this one, don't drop your guitar and it won't be an issue.

I'm guessing 10 out of every 10 guitars dropped and broke the head stocks was not intentionally dropped. Would just be nice to see the known design flaw taken care of. I have seen some folks that this has happened to and they never really get over it. hard to see your beloved axe damaged like that on top of losing over half it's value in an instant. For folks this has never happened to they may be a little more reluctant to accept the need for a permenant fix but i have seen the devestated looks on faces when it does happen to some unexpecting victim and I dont think they would have minded a volute at that moment. Just sayin.

The headstock pitch shouldnt have to change, just a little reinforcment is all. I just dont see how anyone really would be against it, mahogany is a brittle wood with all that tension, it just needs a little help in the danger zone.

 

I can respect each ones opinions, if you like the way they are thats cool, just be carefull to never bump them headstocks

 

 

[Joe]

Would 3 or 5 piece necks be an effective way of preventing headstock breaks?

[FredZepp]

I agree that once it happens to you , it will undoubtedly change your perspective on the issue to some degree.

But also the quality of repairs on these are so good now that it can be fixed to a high standard if it does happen.

 

Maybe there will be a point where "vintage correct" becomes less of an industry mantra and players will open to something that helps resist this break.

With Gibby doing laminated and even synthetic wood fretboards now, maybe that process has begun..

[FredZepp]

Would 3 or 5 piece necks be an effective way of preventing headstock breaks?

It seems like it would make it stronger...

 

My '77 LP Custom has a 3 piece Hard Maple neck w Ebony board and a volute also...

It seems really rugged... but sounds different than a 1 piece mahogany w rosewood too.

[MartyGrass]

Here's what I keep next to my chair leaning against the wall. It cannot be hurt, it sounds like a good electric, and it is very well built. And there is no headstock worry here.

 

The only negative is that it is butt ugly. I'm sure this is how guitarists felt about the new electrics that were coming out in the early '50s.

 

 

 

 

[Gitfiddler]

Headstock breaks have been know to happen during shipping...even if packed securely...and with our without volute reinforcment.

 

Yes, the box was probably dropped. But that can happen to any guitar (with the exception of headless models) and is why I always insure my outgoing shipments. So far, I've been lucky...and haven't needed to try to collect from shipper negligence.

 

Handle guitars with care and they should last a lifetime and then some.

[Dick Seacup]

You know, headstock breaks could be eliminated if only the factory would change that g-d awful desi...er, wait, wrong thread.

[ledzef]

Not to sound like an idiot (because I am not trying to belittle anyone), but if I drop a vase I expect it to break. If I drop a china plate I expect it to break. If I drop a two litter on the roof of my car I expect a dent.

 

Just saying, if I drop a guitar I am expecting it to break. Don't drop your guitar and it won't break.

 

I have probably own 50 guitar in over 25 years..... never dropped one.....never broke a headstock.

Accidents happen. Sometimes due to owners stupidity (like being drunk and dropping my strat reaching for a pick) pets knocking guitars off of stands, kids, etc.etc. My strat has one small ding to show where I dropped it, if that would have happened to my Deluxe I would have had a heart attack. Think what I'm trying to get at is some guitar co. have figured out how to better reinforce necks while others have been slow to change.

[FredZepp]

I'm thankful for strap locks, which I've used from the start .. or locking straps , as I now use.

[Trouble]

Here's what I keep next to my chair leaning against the wall. It cannot be hurt, it sounds like a good electric, and it is very well built. And there is no headstock worry here.

 

The only negative is that it is butt ugly. I'm sure this is how guitarists felt about the new electrics that were coming out in the early '50s.

 

 

 

 

Your right Steinburgers are ugly, it's why I don't own one, but you have to admire the engineering.

[Kuz]

If you back a corvette into a telephone pole, the fiberglass is going to crack, splinter, shatter, ect.

 

If you back a pickup truck into a pole it may do nothing.

 

Moral of the story... don't back up into a pole.

 

Moral of the story #2.... nobody wants a steel corvette.

 

I guess we can agree to disagree!!!

[the jayce]

If you back a corvette into a telephone pole, the fiberglass is going to crack, splinter, shatter, ect.

 

If you back a pickup truck into a pole it may do nothing.

 

Moral of the story... don't back up into a pole.

 

Moral of the story #2.... nobody wants a steel corvette.

 

I guess we can agree to disagree!!!

Very true, but accidents happen??????? Guitars are not immune to lifes little mistakes, hope one of yours do not fall victim like so many other guitars have unintentionally.

[Kuz]

Very true, but accidents happen??????? Guitars are not immune to lifes little mistakes, hope one of yours do not fall victim like so many other guitars have unintentionally.

 

If it does fall victim, it will be my fault from dropping it, leaving it out for the kids to run into, ect..... if it breaks it will be my fault. None of them have broken in their case in the closet yet, which is where they are stored when they aren't being played.

 

The key is look before backing up into a pole with your corvette. If not, then get a Ford F-150 (otherwise known as a Tele!!!)

[cod65]

Being one of the aforementioned 'breakers' of a fine quality 575 recently (returned a 1300$ winning bid and sold for 625$ 'as-is' to somebody else), all I can say is it sucks. And I'm not an idiot- I've shipped a lot of guitars and this was the first problem. It is a delicate spot between the headstock and neck. I would've been fine if I had just put some packing behind the headstock of an otherwise excellent packing job. If you are shipping any guitar with a similar-designed neck then by god pack the hell out of the headstock area. Grovers weigh a ton! When you hold a snapped headstock in your hand, Grovers still 'in situ', it makes sense how vulnerable this area is. Its not a 'design flaw' as much as a 'design weakness' IMO, if you put it in the hands of the 'all-thumbed'.

[111518]

I'm a little taken aback by the tone of some of the posts on this thread. It's as if we can have no sympathy for the fact that mistakes, or unintended events, happen. People back into things that are absolutely invisible from their mirrors ,,, of course it is possible to argue that we should be aware of that possibility, and get out of the car, walk behind, and look every time ... but who does that? Similarly, we should all be aware that angled-headstock mahogany necks, esp. at pitch, are very vulnerable to shock, but, we all play them on stages, in homes with kids and dogs, or ship them in situations that are largely out of our control. We don't play vases on crowded stages. I posted my story because I am very careful about my guitars --to the point that I'm sure some people see me as a jerk about it, and I worry that I am -- and yet I broke a headstock.

 

I'm not arguing that the design should be changed, but it is tough to invest big bucks and emotion into an instrument and have it break at a very vulnerable spot in its design, as a result of a surprisingly small amount of force. (It happens, but I rarely see acoustic headstock breaks --I think breaks are the result both of a weak spot AND a LOT of leverage generated by the weight of the bodies of electric guitars, and of modern tuners on the other end, as cod65 points out.) I understand why people are shocked and frustrated when it happens ,,, I think the design might have evolved differently if guitars had not taken a particular form based on acoustic design and peg tuners, and then been electrified and made solid and loaded with metal hardware. I suspect Rob could testify to the number of beaks that come into guitar repair shops, often guitars of long time players who know to be careful, but ...

 

Fortunately, as Fredzepp points out, it is true that with modern adhesives and repair techniques, it is possible to fix a very high percentage of breaks. I'll certainly never forget the moment when I realized I'd cracked the headstock on my big red baby, but the repair has been absolutely stable for more than 30 years and was from the beginning invisible unless you knew where to look and held the guitar under light at a particular angle (but don't do that ... might bang the headstock, and, trust me, that sucker will break.)

[the jayce]

 

If it does fall victim, it will be my fault from dropping it, leaving it out for the kids to run into, ect..... if it breaks it will be my fault. None of them have broken in their case in the closet yet, which is where they are stored when they aren't being played.

 

The key is look before backing up into a pole with your corvette. If not, then get a Ford F-150 (otherwise known as a Tele!!!)

Sometimes the corvette gets backed into? We'll have to agree to disagree,but being super carefull isnt gonna protect the headstock if somthing unexpected happens, but i feel a reinforcement would. I'm with ya on the tele's though, those are like tanks.