H335 string gauge and action

[Paul P]

Hi all,

 

I'd like to hear from those of you who have H335's about what string gauge you use on it and

what your action is like.  I've read recommendations for action around 5/64ths (2mm) for the

low E and 4/64th  (1.6mm) for the high E, and others seem to go even lower than that.  I

currently have D'Addario XL - EJ21 - 52-12 strings on my H335 and can't seem to go quite

that low without some buzzing.  The buzzing appears to always be happening on the next fret

towards the bridge.  I have some experience with setups and the rest of the guitar seems to

be set within reason.  The neck relief is currently a bit less than 1/32" (.8mm).

 

Thanks,

 

Paul P

[GuitArtMan]

High Paul,

Well I use 10-46 D'Addarios on my H-535s.  My action is Just a tad under 4/64" on the high E and a tad over 4/64" on the low E with now buzzing, both of mine have been pleked.  If you have an older 535 that wasn't pleked, you will most likely need to have a fret dress done on the guitar to get it to play it's best.  As good as the plek machine is, I still think a competent luthier is better and have had a number of luthiers who could match, or better a plek set up. 

Bob

[Ace]

Paul-

 

I use GHS Nickel Rocker's (10's), since they are almost roundwounds, they are quite stiff. I set the string height at 2mm from bottom of the string to the fret at the 12th fret and 1.2mm on the treble side. I also adjust the neck for .001in. at the 8th fret on the low E. I use a heavy pick, play hard and play a lot of slide. That setup works fine for me. Give it a try. Ace

[Ace]

Point of clarification-that's .01 in. neck relief on the 8th fret.

[Paul P]

I use GHS Nickel Rocker's (10's), since they are almost roundwounds, they are quite stiff. I set the string height at 2mm from bottom of the string to the fret at the 12th fret and 1.2mm on the treble side. I also adjust the neck for .001in. at the 8th fret on the low E. I use a heavy pick, play hard and play a lot of slide. That setup works fine for me. Give it a try. Ace

 

I don't see how you guys do it...

 

This is a brand new guitar, fresh out of the factory in June (phew) so supposedly it's been

plecked.  I've found two very minor spots where a fret is high by maybe a .001" or less but

I don't think these are causing me any problems.  My problems appear to be somewhat related

to which string is being plucked.  I can get rid of all the buzzes with pretty low action except for

the B and D strings, the D being more pronounced.  The B will buzz almost all the way to the

bridge while the D it's only in spots.  At 2mm my low E string will buzz somewhat as well.

 

I'm talking here about pretty light buzzing with the guitar unplugged.  Do your guitars not

buzz at all when unplugged ?  I would have thought heavier strings would be tighter and

thus vibrate less widely so I'd have even less problems that someone with 10's.

 

I'm used to an acoustic with pretty high action due to a hump between the 12th fret and

the bridge but I was hoping to be able to go real low with the H335.

 

Paul P

[PacerX]

I don't see how you guys do it...

 

This is a brand new guitar, fresh out of the factory in June (phew) so supposedly it's been

plecked.  I've found two very minor spots where a fret is high by maybe a .001" or less but

I don't think these are causing me any problems.  My problems appear to be somewhat related

to which string is being plucked.  I can get rid of all the buzzes with pretty low action except for

the B and D strings, the D being more pronounced.  The B will buzz almost all the way to the

bridge while the D it's only in spots.  At 2mm my low E string will buzz somewhat as well.

 

I'm talking here about pretty light buzzing with the guitar unplugged.  Do your guitars not

buzz at all when unplugged ?  I would have thought heavier strings would be tighter and

thus vibrate less widely so I'd have even less problems that someone with 10's.

 

I'm used to an acoustic with pretty high action due to a hump between the 12th fret and

the bridge but I was hoping to be able to go real low with the H335.

 

Paul P

 

First, I'm in the "as low as it can go camp" where action is concerned.  "As low as it can go" is defined by the following:

 

1) If I can execute a bend (going up the fretboard radius) greater than 1 and 1/2 steps without it fretting out, it isn't low enough.  If you look at how the geometry works, string height determines how far you can bend a string without fretting out (again, going up the radius, which means that the 1st string is being bent "up" towards the ceiling, and the 6th string would be bent down towards the ground).

 

A flatter fretboard radius inherently means that lower action can be set on the instrument when you consider bending as your constraint.  In other words, a 22" radius will allow lower action than a 9.5" radius.

 

2) Now, the next qualifier to the above rule is that there can be no audible buzzing through the amplifier.  Buzzing heard when not plugged in may be a little annoying, but what matters is what is sounds like through the amp.  The amp will not pick up some buzzing that you hear while playing acoustically, so if you set your action such that it has zero buzzing when played acoustically, you can pretty much bet the farm that you can go a little lower and not hear it through an amp.

 

3) Any buzzing that only occurs at... say... a single particular fret... means one of two things most of the time... a) that fret is too low -or- a fret or frets closer to the bridge are too high.  If you think you need fretwork, leave it to a pro.  I've seen lots of guitars get trashed (or made very difficult to play) by somebody without experience taking a file to their frets.

 

 

 

I think the biggest answer as far as helping you is this:

 

The buzzing that really matters is buzzing that is audible through an amplifier.  To most players (particularly those, like me, who have their amplifiers set to "KILL" 90% of the time, or have some dirt/gain in their normal tone) buzzing while playing acoustically really isn't all that important.

[PacerX]

Oh, one more thing...

 

Sometimes a buzz caused at a particular fret isn't being caused by a fret or frets closer to the bridge being crowned improperly, but can be caused by one of those frets "lifting" a little bit out of it's slot.

 

Something like that happening isn't unheard of on fairly new guitars.

 

The fretboard itself is wood, and wood expands and contracts with temperature and humidity.  In doing so, it can work the fret out of it's slot a little bit, and the fret will need to be reseated.  There are all kinds of fancy tools from Stewart-MacDonald and such for seating frets.

 

I use the back (plastic) end of a screwdriver.

 

Pull the string out of the way and smack that sucker back in.  How hard you smack it is kind of a learned thing, so if you feel uncomfortable about doing it, go to a guitar repairman.  On "built like a tank" bolt-on Fender-style construction guitars with maple necks you can go positively barbaric on them...  ;D  I'd be more careful on a set neck...  :-*

 

As the fretboard wood ages ("seasons") and settles in, things like this tend to become more and more rare.

 

 

Oh... string gages for my axes:

 

Anything with a 24.75" scale at standard tuning gets .010-046".

 

Anything with a 25.5" scale with a humbucker in it at standard tuning gets .009-.042".

 

Anything with ONLY single coil pickups @ 25.5" scale at standard tuning gets .010-.046".

 

The 7-string gets a set of .009-.042" with a .070" on the 7th string (required some drill work, I tune the 7th string to A, the rest of the strings are in standard tuning).

 

Acoustics and acoustic electrics get mediums.

 

GHS Boomers across the board for the electrics, Elixers for the acoustics.

[Ace]

Adding to what Pacer X said, a little acoustic string buzz is desired by many players as it gives to guitar a gritty sound when the string is bent. Tele's, in particular, are often setup that way. However, you probably need a fret job.

[GuitArtMan]

Adding to what Pacer X said, a little acoustic string buzz is desired by many players as it gives to guitar a gritty sound when the string is bent. Tele's, in particular, are often setup that way. However, you probably need a fret job.

I've been playing 30+ years and this is the first time I've heard anyone say string buzz in any way, shape or form is a good thing.

[PacerX]

I've been playing 30+ years and this is the first time I've heard anyone say string buzz in any way, shape or form is a good thing.

 

He's right.  If you can't hear it through the amp, or if you WANT to hear it through the amp, it doesn't matter.

[Paul P]

Thanks for all the feedback.  It's nice to be able to compare things to other guitars

out there.

 

It just occurred to me that my problem might lie with the saddles.  They seem to

have been notched at the factory (the notches are not centered but rather cut

so as to line the string up properly over the pickups and neck).  I think it's not

impossible that my B and D string saddles may have been notched a little low which

would explain why they are giving me more trouble than the other strings.

 

I won't be able to check this out for a few weeks.  My guitar is hidden away in a

closet until my birthday (50) in November and I've only been taking it out for a few

minutes every month to make sure it's ok (you know to make sure it's not getting

covered in mildew or something :-)  I've taken the opportunity to do a bit of setup

each time so it will be ready on the big day.

 

It'll be my first electric guitar.  I've been practicing daily on an acoustic for the last

two and half years or so working my way towards this day.  I haven't slept in months...

 

Paul P

[GuitArtMan]

He's right.  If you can't hear it through the amp, or if you WANT to hear it through the amp, it doesn't matter.

I understand there may be some fret buzzing accoustically that doesn't come through the amp, but I can't understand why anybody would want fret buzz to come through their amp - it kills sustain and sounds, well bad.

???

If you want to get a Sitar effect put some aluminium foil in your strings by the bridge. 

[PacerX]

I understand there may be some fret buzzing accoustically that doesn't come through the amp, but I can't understand why anybody would want fret buzz to come through their amp - it kills sustain and sounds, well bad.

???

If you want to get a Sitar effect put some aluminium foil in your strings by the bridge. 

 

Ever heard that big old gnarly "bwang!" out a Tele?  Let's see... I think a good example is that "Crazy 'Bout a Mercury" song... no idea who did it first, and might not even have the title right... 

 

You know the one I mean?  Mostly an old country thing, but it's the 1/4 or 1/2 step bend on the at the 3rd fret of the sixth string pulling off to the open E.  To get it right, you've really got to dig in with the pick and hit it hard.  Getting some string noise out of it makes it even gnarlier (if that's a word...). 

 

Surf guys seem to go after the same thing.

 

Oddly enough, it seems to be almost universally a Fender thing...

 

I can't think of one example that isn't a Fender guy doing it.

[Heritage4]

On all of my guitars Heritage included:

  Gibson B.B. King signature nickle strings 10-54