Guest HRB853370 Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 I recently acquired a Taylor guitar with the critically acclaimed expression system. I have heard both positives and negatives about it but I happen to like it. My question is-the expression system is more like a 3 point microphone system than a traditional pickup system. Would I be better off using a solid state amp than a vacuum tube amp with this guitar? Do any of you acoustic/electric players use a tube amp? As always, thanks for the input.
kidsmoke Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 i've run my Larrivee with a Fishman Eclipse Blend through both. The eclipse uses two inputs....traditional undersaddle piezo & a gooseneck mounted condenser mic, and you're able to blend your output with an onboard slider....either input or a blend of the two (I leave it on the piezo) It works fine, but the SS acoustic amp gives a better reproduction, IMO. They're tuned for it. The tube amps tend to color the acoustic sound, giving it a somewhat compressed quality, even a tube amp that has great cleans for electrics. YMMV
H Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 I'd say a tube amp would 'colour' the sound too much. A tube amp which stayed clean way up the dial might do the job though. I'm pretty sure I read a post from JeffB recently in which he said he plays his acoustic through a Fender Twin!
Guest HRB853370 Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 I'd say a tube amp would 'colour' the sound too much. A tube amp which stayed clean way up the dial might do the job though. I'm pretty sure I read a post from JeffB recently in which he said he plays his acoustic through a Fender Twin! I read that too. So, maybe my Peavey solid state amps, i.e. Bandit might work well? I have not tried them yet.
H Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 So, maybe my Peavey solid state amps, i.e. Bandit might work well? Try it through the clean channel and play with the EQ until it sounds good. Cheaper than buying an acoustic amp
fxdx99 Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 Yuppers. And very very... very well (if designed/voiced for acoustics) http://www.humphreyamps.com/Home.php
kbp810 Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 Acoustic through a tube amp can indeed sound good, but not necessarily natural (and also often a real PITA to control feedback) - you often need a preamp or an impedance matching transformer in front of it to step the signal up as well. Acoustic amp or through a PA is the way to go; I'm not sure what the output level of the Taylor Expression system is, but if it's a lower level output, your bandit might not be up to task without something in front of it as well.
TalismanRich Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 I don't think its so much the tube/SS issue as it is being a full range system vs a "guitar" amp voiced to produce a certain sound. They, by their nature distort the sound and have limited response. The best sound I get is through a good full range stereo setup. Second choice would be a good PA, followed closely by an acoustic amp. My last choice is my guitar amps. Most guitar speakers roll off at around 5K. Here's the trace of a Celestion 30. By 6kHz, its down about 20dB. You'll find that most acoustic amps will have a tweeter to fill out the top end. That's also why the good acoustic guitars sound good going direct into a mixing board. The Expression system is pretty good as a direct in.
Gitfiddler Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 Acoustic Electrics can also sound pretty good through a Bass amp, as long as it has a tweeter horn and smaller speakers (10's or maybe 12's), but not 15's!! Some amp makers like Carvin make an all purpose amp for guitar, bass and vocals. http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/AG100D Also I was suprised to fing that my AE guitar sounds fantastic through a Heritage Liberty 2x12 (all tube) amp.
GASguy Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 Rivera makes two channel tube amps with one channel voiced for acoustic and clean tones; Sedona and Sedona lite amps--they are not cheap. Taylor is making limited production expression system acoustic amps in hardwood cabinets sold in pairs with matching guitars, also expensive, and will begin regular production of the expression system amps next year. I'm not 100% sure but I think they are solid state amps I have a Fender acoustasonic that is older, but my favorite is my Roland AC60 amp--it is a solid state amp that sounds great with the expression system. Roland also makes an AC90 amp that was not available when I bought my AC60.
Trouble Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I'd say a tube amp would 'colour' the sound too much. A tube amp which stayed clean way up the dial might do the job though. I'm pretty sure I read a post from JeffB recently in which he said he plays his acoustic through a Fender Twin! It really depends on how loud you need to get, but a Twin makes a very good acoustic amp under most conditions, stadiums no, bar or church yes. Now here is the real kicker, I love Taylor guitars unplugged, I own a one, but the Taylor pickup system is very tricky. I struggled in the last band trying to get usable sounds out of our singers 310 CE, in the end he always ended up using his Takimine for gigs. I could make it sound great, but if he tried to get more volume from the guitar pandemonium insued. I think it could be a great guitar using a preamp and some sort of external volume, such as a pedal. In my opinion, if you are going to use an acoustic live a piezo system or soundhole humbucker is the best way to go, neither are immune to feedback, but both are much less temperamental than the Taylor system. Sorry Slammer I don't mean to sound negative and I hope your knew guitar works out great for you!
Guest HRB853370 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Well, I do have an acoustic amp, a little Crate CA-30 which has a single 8" speaker in it. It also has chorus and reverb and it is voiced and has the input signal boosted for acoustic applications. I was just curious about a regular SS or tube guitar amp in that application and ya'all answered the question with authority, thanks!
212Mavguy Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I have several tube amps that sound wonderful for acoustic-electric. Nothing against SS in that app either.
DetroitBlues Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 The 445 I traded to Shundog had a piezo undersaddle pickup on it. I plugged that into the Peavey Delta Blues (as the manual suggests I can use the amp for acoustics). It does work, but acoustic amps are solid state and have built in measures to balance the tone, output, and add some effects to the guitar without causing feedback. Tube amps do work, but solid state work better considering the acoustic preamp is more like a microphone setup into a PA system. Not a lot of tube driven PA systems out there for good reason.
smurph1 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I run my acoustic thru my C-30 tube amp..Sounds fine to me..But I'm really not that picky..
HumphreyAmps Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Yuppers. And very very... very well (if designed/voiced for acoustics) http://www.humphreyamps.com/Home.php Thanks for the plug Randy! I'd be happy to answer any questions on this topic - it's kinda close to my heart. Just remember, there's reasons why the best hi-fi amplifiers still use tubes these day. The Espresso circuitry is designed more like those hi-fi amps than a guitar amp. Everything about an electric guitar tube amp, from the preamp to the speaker, is designed to intentionally add color, distortion or otherwise change the tone. It's an extension of the instrument. Even if you use the 'clean' setting, the output transformer & (single) speaker are poorly mismatched for an acoustic instrument. Those are the main reasons why a lot of folks are inclined to give tubes a bad rap for acoustic guitars. Vacuum tubes can give the ultimate in audio reproduction, if used right, but the amp has to be designed that way from the ground up. There's some secret sauce in there, of course, including the cabinet design & speaker/tweeter positioning . . .
DetroitBlues Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Wow, those amp designs are fantasitc, even from just a cabinet perspective.
MrB Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Slammer, I have acouple of really sweet Martins, 000-28 and 000-28EC. Beautifully balanced sound, warm and woody. The best way I have found to make them sound like cheep dimestore guitars; lifeless, cold and clinical, is to run them through a solid state amp. SS amps have the distinct advantage of lighter weight, and typically have lots of digital effects. (digital being a dirty word to my ears) Played through my vintage Twin Reverb they sounded wonderful, particularly after spending some time fine tuning the tone controls. I say 'sounded' because I had to cash in the old amp in order to finance my incoming Millennium DC. I now use a newer Deluxe Reverb Reissue, and it works quite well, though it has only bass and treble controls. I suspect it will improve when I eventually upgrade the tubes. Mr B
kidsmoke Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 what is it about the northwoods types and the fine woodworking/acoustic orientation. Seems so many of the fine guitar builders, amp builders etc are in ME, MN, WI, PNW, Quebec, oh, and MI! Beautiful amps. I'm intrigued
JeffB Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Wow, those amp designs are fantasitc, even from just a cabinet perspective. Whoa!!! Thats nice!
tbonesullivan Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 They can, but generally the EQ is set up a lot differently, and the speakers used are different. For an acoustic instrument you want something set up like a PA: transparent with full-range speakers. Guitar speakers top out at 5.5khz usually, which means you lose a lot of the top end shimmer of an acoustic.
212Mavguy Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Something also to think about is whether the acoustic instrument is played with picks or fingers. I'm thinking that the fingers can benefit more from a HIFI perspective setup.
Guest HRB853370 Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Slammer, I have acouple of really sweet Martins, 000-28 and 000-28EC. Beautifully balanced sound, warm and woody. The best way I have found to make them sound like cheep dimestore guitars; lifeless, cold and clinical, is to run them through a solid state amp. SS amps have the distinct advantage of lighter weight, and typically have lots of digital effects. (digital being a dirty word to my ears) Played through my vintage Twin Reverb they sounded wonderful, particularly after spending some time fine tuning the tone controls. I say 'sounded' because I had to cash in the old amp in order to finance my incoming Millennium DC. I now use a newer Deluxe Reverb Reissue, and it works quite well, though it has only bass and treble controls. I suspect it will improve when I eventually upgrade the tubes. Mr B MrB, thanks for your insight. I too have a DR reissue. Perhaps I should plug my Taylor in there and see what shakes? Any recommendations on the Treble/Bass EQ?
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