Ultimate Jazz Guitar.

[JWALKER]

Due to space, money, and wife constraints, I try to keep my guitar stable down to guitars that do different things, with no close copies of anything. At present, I have a Strat, and I have a Jazz Master being built. Apart from wanting a Telecaster one day, I think I could rest easy with owning one dedicated Jazz hollow body guitar, or maybe two, but I digress.

I have briefly auditioned a Heritage Eagle, and I owned a Heritage H-575. I really loved both of those guitars. However, the one guitar that keeps intriguing me is the Sweet 16. I am seriously thinking about getting one via a custom order. I am looking for a single floating pup hollow body guitar, and my two primary concerns are getting the best possible acoustic tone, while still being a phenomenal electric Jazz guitar. My chief concern on the electric side is feedback for a hollow body.

I am wondering if you put a small sound block in a Sweet 16 would that kill the greatness of that guitar? I plan on getting the "Finger" style tailpiece, so this will help some with feedback, so I read.

I am not locked into the Sweet 16, but I do love the looks of this guitar. I welcome all input from everyone, as to what Heritage guitar is your favorite for Jazz.

I love the look of a naked Ebony fretboard, so I plan to go that route, or maybe just use some small MOP markers. I also want Nickel Hardware, as opposed to gold. I like binding on a guitar, but I probably will go with an unbound neck, just to give the guitar more shelf life in that area. I will likely go with full body binding, bound f holes and bound headstock. Full binding on the neck scares me, as I here your in trouble when or if you ever need fret work. I am not an expert here, so I am a basing what little I know on research on HOC and other avenues. Again, I welcome all input as to what you would or would not do on a Jazz guitar build.

[Keith7940236]

I read somewhere that a person had a custom Sweet 16 built for him with an extra cut out under the floating pup. Apparently this helped open up the acoustic properties of the guitar. I don't know if it affected the feedback issues. I'll see if I can find the article when I'm at work tomorrow. BTW, there are a number of Sweet 16's on GBASE right now. I'd love to have a custom build someday.

[JWALKER]

That is interesting, Thanks Keith, and please let me know what you find out.

[Gitfiddler]

If you are considering a custom build, be sure to compare the price of an upgraded 575 vs a Sweet 16 with less bling.

 

And yes, there is the difference in scale length to also consider between the two.

 

As Keith pointed out, there are a number of Sweet 16's on the used market.

[Spectrum13]

If you are considering a custom build, be sure to compare the price of an upgraded 575 vs a Sweet 16 with less bling.

 

And yes, there is the difference in scale length to also consider between the two.

 

 

Agree on the first line! Tim I not so sure about the scale length since Big Bob did a long scale 575. What scale is JWALKER looking for?

[JWALKER]

jwalker is looking, wait that's me, I am looking for whatever scale is best. I know best is probably subjective, so I would have to say that I am used to playing on 25.5 scale length guitars, like my Strat and JM;s. I will definitely have to consider a H-575. I had one and loved it. I sold it hoping to do a custom order one day.

[Spook410]

A great acoustic tone and no feedback are contradictory I think. No reason to go with a floating pickup with a block of some kind installed. If you mostly play at home you can manage volume and feedback isn't an issue. Playing out you can try what flattop players do and use a notch EQ to try to tune out some resonant frequencies. This may work if you're playing solo but as you add volume and other players it becomes less possible. Time and time again we see folks grabbing a 575 (or even 535) because it's just more practical in a live setting. I guess there is no swiss army knife guitar.

 

Also, I had small MOP dots installed on my last guitar. For me, because I also like a clean look, I wish I had not. All I really needed were the dots on the side of the neck.

[MartyGrass]

I agree with Spook410. A resonant top will feedback. I have not yet found a way for the finger TP to make much difference with feedback.

 

Asking for the ultimate jazz guitar is like asking about the ultimate woman or car.

 

Bill Frisell does a great job with a Tele. Gabor Szabo used a flat top with a pickup to create top notch jazz.

 

Go figure!

[JWALKER]

I have to agree with you guys, and my guitar guy( where I get most of my guitar stuff ) who constantly tells me the same thing. Sadly, there is no one guitar that will excel in every category. Some of my favorite guitar players play phenomenal Jazz or Fusion on my favorite guitars including: a Strat( Scott Henderson and lately, Bill Frisell ), a Tele( Ed Bickert, Ted Greene, Bill Frisell, Mike Stern, and Andy Summers), and a Jazz Master( Nels Cline). I appreciate that input on feedback, and I had not thought of that angle. I most certainly will be playing mostly at home, and I just love that big Jazz guitar sound of a hollow body guitar. Without having to worry much about feedback, I guess I just want to get a great guitar that also has a really good to great acoustic tone. Is the premium wood option worth it or recommended?

[MartyGrass]

The premium wood upgrade is aesthetic only as far as I can tell. Some luthiers charge extra for various cuts of wood for tonal qualities. If Heritage does that, I've never heard of it.

[JWALKER]

Has anyone ever had a hollow body with the tap tuning option. From what I read, and expensive option, but great if you are going to play mostly acoustic, but this also makes the guitar feedback much more. However, as I will be playing at home, this should not be an issue.

[MartyGrass]

I can hear a difference acoustically.

 

Frankly, you can buy a second modest archtop for the amount you spend on just the tap tuning option.

 

If you are going to order a guitar with tap tuning from Heritage, you should do it soon. Aaron Cowles is about 70 and may not be working a lot longer. Tap tuning takes a long time to learn. Not many know this skill anymore.

[JWALKER]

MG, you hit the nail on the head. In my thinking, all the Heritage guys are getting older, so I am going to order one while I still can. The day will one day come, hopefully not for a long time, when you can no longer buy a quality US built archtop by the makers of the great Jazz guitars that my many of my Jazz guitar heroes used to play on.

[Keith7940236]

JW,

Here is a PDF of the posting that I was talking about. I saved it on my computer, but forgot which forum I got it from. I think that it was the Jazz Guitar Forum. Anyway, I hop that this is helpful.

Sweet 16 Custom.pdf

[MartyGrass]

Here is what the PDF says. I have had two guitars with the 4 point mount system. It might make a small difference in acoustic or amplified tone, but I don't hear it. The mass of the pickup still dampens oscillations of the top whether the surface area of the attachment is small or large. That's the same principle a sound post is based on.

 

I don't criticize Ren's concept of the 4 point mount. The hope is that it will diminish the negative impact of mounting a pickup, and it may somewhat.

 

Much of what we are told about things that improve tone is simply wishful thinking. There is no way in hell that routing for a pickup and mounting one on the top are going to help the acoustic qualities of an archtop. I'll admit that this guy could easily prefer the sound of the HRW over a Floating #3 however. They do not sound the same at all.

 

......................................................................................................................................................................

 

Hi, This is my custom 2001 Heritage Sweet 16. A very comfortable instrument with a 16" lower bout, 2-3/4" at the rim with a 25.5" scale. I had it made with a floating pickup and had a tone pot added to the finger rest. I never was able to get a full rich jazz tone plugged in with the floater. After talking with a number of "pros" who had the same instrument and issue, I sent the instrument back to Heritage to have in modified to accept a full sized humbucker (Yikes! You had a carved top instrument routed!). Ren Wall back at Heritage is a clever guy and he routed the top with a rectangular hole sized to accept the back of a HB (A Heritage HRW3 which is a custom modified Schaller I belive made by Ren Wall) and installed the pick-up ring on a 4-point mounting system. The pick-up ring is not in contact with the top. It is mounted on 4 - 1/6" bushings and the hole for the pick-up actually acts like a third sound hole. Plugged in it is a far superior instrument and even unplugged, I really have not noticed a difference in its responsiveness. It has been a great playing instrument. Extremely comfortable with a nice acoutic tone and with a great plugged in jazz tone. :-) Bob

[pressure]

How about a used Johnny Smith. They are all fully acoustic with a floating pickup and possibly taptuned.

[Keith7940236]

Don't buy up all of the used Johnny Smiths!!! I hope to get one some day. Leave me one!!!

[Ned]

I am always happy to hear my solid top Heritages sympathetically ringing away with whatever music is on the stereo. I would guess this is a sign of lively acoustic tone. Only my dog would be able to tell if the solid body electrics do this.

[JWALKER]

Thank everybody for all your input. I looked at several Johnny Smith models on the net, very nice looking. I would love to have one, especially if the Tap Tuning was a standard feature of these models. I just got an Eagle to demo, and I love the tone. I have not had much time to play on it yet, but it has a big acoustic sound compared to my Strat. I really like that. I will have to send it back on Monday, but I had forgotten how much I liked hollow body guitars.

[Gitfiddler]

Thank everybody for all your input. I looked at several Johnny Smith models on the net, very nice looking. I would love to have one, especially if the Tap Tuning was a standard feature of these models. I just got an Eagle to demo, and I love the tone. I have not had much time to play on it yet, but it has a big acoustic sound compared to my Strat. I really like that. I will have to send it back on Monday, but I had forgotten how much I liked hollow body guitars.

 

 

JW~Hollow body guitars are quite addictive. The huge tones are simply hypnotic to me. I think you feel the same way.

 

Happy hollow hunting!

[tsp17]

 

 

JW~Hollow body guitars are quite addictive. The huge tones are simply hypnotic to me. I think you feel the same way.

 

Happy hollow hunting!

+1

[yavuz]

I have an h575 that has a wonderful acoustic sound but it does have e tendency to feedback at the gig. I am the leader of my band so I ask everyone to play at lower volumes. It helps the music as well.

 

However, I also had a custom Millie built for me. It has only one pup at the neck position. That guitar is like a mini jazz box that does not feedback.

 

I have 6 guitars and I am having problems just to keep up with changing strings.

[Kuz]

As one who own a 575 with solid maple top mounted Seth Lovers, a Golden Eagle floating pickup tap tuned, a Golden Eagle with a 4 point mounted HRW humbucker, a 525 hollowbody with laminate top & mounted P-90s AND I used to own a Sweet 16 that had a floating pickup that I had a mounted HRW installed, here are my thoughts.

 

-For home playing, recording, and live at LOW volumes- if you want an acoustic wood tone, both going through an amp and just acoustic without an amp, then a floating pickup (and tap tuned will even be better) and solid spruce top is a must. For example my Golden Eagle with floating #3 pickup.

 

 

-For home playing, recording, and live at moderate volumes- If you want the deep dark smoky tone but a greatly diminished acoustic tone then a big archtop with solid spruce top with a mounted humbucker. This guitar IS MEANT to be played through an amp, but still has SOME acoustic tone. Still quite audible when played acoustic/no amp, but not as much as a archtop with a floating pup. For example my Florentine Golden Eagle with 4 point mounted HRW humbucker.

 

 

-For home playing, recording, and live at higher moderate volumes- If you want the deep dark smoky modern jazz tone through the amp then an archtop with laminate top or solid maple top with mounted humbuckers or P-90s (these guitars are MEANT to be played through an amp). For example my 575 with solid maple top & Seth Lover humbuckers or my 525 with a laminate top and mounted p-90s.

 

The choice IS THE APPLICATION. That said, at low-moderate volumes all can work, and have, with jazz guitars for decades.

[Spectrum13]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rather than carring around four archtops... you might consider this 1940's 1950's and 1960's pickup combo in spruce top and hog backed example.

[Guest HRB853370]

A great acoustic tone and no feedback are contradictory I think. No reason to go with a floating pickup with a block of some kind installed. If you mostly play at home you can manage volume and feedback isn't an issue. Playing out you can try what flattop players do and use a notch EQ to try to tune out some resonant frequencies. This may work if you're playing solo but as you add volume and other players it becomes less possible. Time and time again we see folks grabbing a 575 (or even 535) because it's just more practical in a live setting. I guess there is no swiss army knife guitar.

 

Also, I had small MOP dots installed on my last guitar. For me, because I also like a clean look, I wish I had not. All I really needed were the dots on the side of the neck.

 

Oh no? Many folks have pegged the 535 as the swiss army knife guitar!