H550: is it possible to install a stop tailpiece?

[6stringjazz]

I own an H550 which I really like. I would like some advice.... it's a plywood top and it has a regular metal bridge like a 535 with studs in the top. I was wondering if there is enough bracing in the top to install a stop tailpiece? The arch of the top is not that much, so the angle of the strings breaking over the bridge from the existing tailpiece is not as much as it would be from a stop tailpiece. A greater angle would give more downward pressure on the bridge and a tighter sound with a little more sustain. I'm just wondering if the guitar would hold up with that mod?

 

Unrelated fret issue..... the frets were installed with very significant binding "nibs", meaning that the metal part of the fret doesn't go out to the end of the fingerboard. This has caused a problem with the first string slipping off the fret in certain places on the neck where the fret doesn't extend far enough to keep it stable during playing. Anybody else have this problem? I'm thinking that a refret might be the only solution.

[Spectrum13]

6

The 550 does not have a block or support under top where the studs would anchor.

 

As to the second issue, it sounds like your nut might not be spaced correctly for the high E.

[JohnCovach]

I'd get a new nut and explore the possibility of installing the "fingers tailpiece." The idea of that tailpiece is that you control the angle of string break over the bridge. I'm not sure you could get as much break as a stop would provide, but you would have some additional break.

[Genericmusic]

I'd get a new nut and explore the possibility of installing the "fingers tailpiece." The idea of that tailpiece is that you control the angle of string break over the bridge. I'm not sure you could get as much break as a stop would provide, but you would have some additional break.

+1 This makes more sense and lessens the possibility of damage or stress to the top.

[unikh550]

Heritage added bracing under the top of my H-550 to support a Charlie Christian pickup from an ES-175CC. Shouldn't be as extensive as that.

[Kuz]

It makes no sense, in my opinion. It is an archtop. Yes a laminate top, but non the less an archtop.

 

It was not designed and won't support a stoptail.

 

I would sell the 550 or accept it for what it is.

 

I am not trying to be mean, just trying to give perspective of what the guitar is and why a stoptail won't work and doesn't really make much sense on an archtop.

 

Hope it helps!!

[6stringjazz]

It makes no sense, in my opinion. It is an archtop. Yes a laminate top, but non the less an archtop.

 

It was not designed and won't support a stoptail.

 

I would sell the 550 or accept it for what it is.

 

I am not trying to be mean, just trying to give perspective of what the guitar is and why a stoptail won't work and doesn't really make much sense on an archtop.

 

Hope it helps!!

 

Thanks, I do understand that perspective. I would consider a finger tailpiece if they weren't so expensive, but I probably won't do anything. FWIW the stop tail would make sense on this guitar FOR ME, since it would increase the break angle of the strings over the bridge. I do realize it is radical and unheard of on an archtop, but if it works for me, then that's all that really matters. Like I said, I probably won't do anything since I don't like molested guitars anymore than anyone else. I guess from this perspective you could have told Pat Metheny not to put a synth pickup on his vintage 175 or to take off the bridge pickup and cover the hole with duct tape... LOL!

[DetroitBlues]

A stop tail is not really worth the effort. If you're worried about string length, I can understand that. (Adds more tension and makes blues playing a little harder). Unless there is a floating centerblock like a Prospect, I'd say forget it. If it bothers you that much, just sell the 550 and get a Prospect or a 535.

[JohnCovach]

The 576 is the closest model to a 550 with stop tailpiece.

[Guest HRB853370]

A stop tail is not really worth the effort. If you're worried about string length, I can understand that. (Adds more tension and makes blues playing a little harder). Unless there is a floating centerblock like a Prospect, I'd say forget it. If it bothers you that much, just sell the 550 and get a Prospect or a 535.

 

But then he gives up the hollowbody archtop which is his whole point; he loves that sound!

[6stringjazz]

 

But then he gives up the hollowbody archtop which is his whole point; he loves that sound!

Yes, that's the whole point..... the guitar sounds real good, similar to an L5. A semi hollow with the shorter scale length would not sound the same. I have a 535 and it's also a great guitar but the tone from the big body and longer scale length is different. I was just thinking that since the 550 already has extra bracing added for the studs of the metal bridge, it might not be that much of a stretch to ADD a little more bracing only where the stop tail would be placed so that the top could take the stress of the strings. I just think that the increased break angle would make the guitar sound even better because more energy would be transferred to the bridge. As it is now, it's pretty close to not having enough tension at the bridge to keep the strings in the roller saddles when I hit the strings pretty hard. I can feel a certain looseness there that the increased break angle would cure. I probably won't do it, but I don't think it's an entirely bad idea either if the guitar could be structurally enhanced to support the additional stress of the strings on the top. I know it would also change the tone some but it's already NOT an acoustic guitar as in carved spruce top, so I don't think the amplified tone would take a negative direction due to extra stress on the top. BTW, I called AND emailed Heritage a week ago to ask some questions about the 550 and I have yet to get a reply either way.

[DetroitBlues]

 

But then he gives up the hollowbody archtop which is his whole point; he loves that sound!

 

I'd suspect he'd get a similar tone with the Prospect...

[6stringjazz]

 

I'd suspect he'd get a similar tone with the Prospect...

 

What is it about the prospect that would make it sound close to a big hollowbody 25 1/2" scale guitar? Isn't it a semi hollow with 24 3/4" scale?

[DetroitBlues]

It has a floating center block, so its basically has a strip of wood under the top for a stoptailpeice... As far as scale goes, its just a scale. the body cavity size, wood types, and pickups would make the difference...

[111518]

Yes, that's the whole point..... the guitar sounds real good, similar to an L5. A semi hollow with the shorter scale length would not sound the same. I have a 535 and it's also a great guitar but the tone from the big body and longer scale length is different. I was just thinking that since the 550 already has extra bracing added for the studs of the metal bridge, it might not be that much of a stretch to ADD a little more bracing only where the stop tail would be placed so that the top could take the stress of the strings. I just think that the increased break angle would make the guitar sound even better because more energy would be transferred to the bridge. As it is now, it's pretty close to not having enough tension at the bridge to keep the strings in the roller saddles when I hit the strings pretty hard. I can feel a certain looseness there that the increased break angle would cure. I probably won't do it, but I don't think it's an entirely bad idea either if the guitar could be structurally enhanced to support the additional stress of the strings on the top. I know it would also change the tone some but it's already NOT an acoustic guitar as in carved spruce top, so I don't think the amplified tone would take a negative direction due to extra stress on the top. BTW, I called AND emailed Heritage a week ago to ask some questions about the 550 and I have yet to get a reply either way.

 

If you take a look inside a 550, (via trusty inspection mirror); you'll find two parallel braces running from the rear of the back pickup towards the back of the guitar, and a plate in between in the bridge area. The "legs" of the bridge go into the braces. Would the inserts for the posts for a stop? I'm not sure --they are larger than the inserts for the bridge mounts. However, when I looked at my 550, I was struck by the fact that it is a pretty heavily braced area of the top --not exactly "live."

 

The 576 used a floating block and a stop tailpiece --mounted to essentially the same pressed lam. top, if cut down to 16" for the 576. I've never owned one, so I don't know exactly how the bracing and block is constructed, but, I think that would be the closest production parallel --and, I don't think it would be outside the realm of reason to think that a 550 could be modded to essentially the same setup. My 2 cents, of course.

 

Oh, and, not to sound stupid, but it might not be obvious --the roller bridge allows you to adjust the string spacing significantly. Maybe you can pull in that pesky e-string enough to address your problem.

[Kuz]

It has a floating center block, so its basically has a strip of wood under the top for a stoptailpeice... As far as scale goes, its just a scale. the body cavity size, wood types, and pickups would make the difference...

 

Nope, sorry huge disagreement here. Scale length makes a HUGE difference in the tone of a guitar. A 575 sounds much different from a Golden Eagle. A Strat and Tele sound completely different from a short scale Jaguar. Scale length makes a bigger difference than bolt on vs set neck guitars.

If you like the snappy tone of a Strat or Tele you would not like the rounder tone of a bolt on short scale guitar, and visa versa.

[Guest HRB853370]

Nope, sorry huge disagreement here. Scale length makes a HUGE difference in the tone of a guitar. A 575 sounds much different from a Golden Eagle. A Strat and Tele sound completely different from a short scale Jaguar. Scale length makes a bigger difference than bolt on vs set neck guitars.

If you like the snappy tone of a Strat or Tele you would not like the rounder tone of a bolt on short scale guitar, and visa versa.

 

+1

[6stringjazz]

Nope, sorry huge disagreement here. Scale length makes a HUGE difference in the tone of a guitar. A 575 sounds much different from a Golden Eagle. A Strat and Tele sound completely different from a short scale Jaguar. Scale length makes a bigger difference than bolt on vs set neck guitars.

If you like the snappy tone of a Strat or Tele you would not like the rounder tone of a bolt on short scale guitar, and visa versa.

I'm glad you said it. I think the scale length is one of the main factors in defining a guitars overall tone. I have done various experiments with pickups and scale length etc... and you just can't make a tele sound like a tele unless it's 25 1/2" scale. This also applies to L5 type hollow bodies vs. 175's etc.... it's just not the same sound. Sure, the pickups and body size do make a difference, but the scale length to me is a primary factor. Change that, and you change the entire character of the response and harmonic overtone series of the guitar.

 

to the above poster regarding roller bridge and high E string,..... I have already moved it over as far as it will go and stay in the area of the pickup pole for the high E. I think a new nut might fix the problem though. It just needs to be moved over on the first seven frets or so. It's OK past that due to the fact that the fingerboard gets wider. I don't think Heritage cuts the nuts very well anyway. I have had 6 different Heritage guitars, and the nuts were all a little weird, especially the spacing between the 6th and 5th strings. I had to get a new nut cut on a couple of them, so that will probably be what I'll do on the 550.

[DetroitBlues]

Nope, sorry huge disagreement here. Scale length makes a HUGE difference in the tone of a guitar. A 575 sounds much different from a Golden Eagle. A Strat and Tele sound completely different from a short scale Jaguar. Scale length makes a bigger difference than bolt on vs set neck guitars.

If you like the snappy tone of a Strat or Tele you would not like the rounder tone of a bolt on short scale guitar, and visa versa.

 

I think that's a matter of music style. Perhaps in Jazz, but not for rock or blues... Amps/pedals/effects sort of even the playing field. I've used my Strat, my 140, and my Dot for the same songs. There is little sonic difference on the recordings, mostly because the effects/amp settings I used. I use them to compensate and give myself a tone that is full enough to produce the sound I'm looking for. So I have a set neck, bolt on neck, P90, single coils, humbuckers... My tone is adjusted so they sound rather close...

 

To further my point, almost every professional guitarist out there will tell you the tone is in your hands.... I can agree with that statement 100%

[Kuz]

 

I think that's a matter of music style. Perhaps in Jazz, but not for rock or blues... Amps/pedals/effects sort of even the playing field. I've used my Strat, my 140, and my Dot for the same songs. There is little sonic difference on the recordings, mostly because the effects/amp settings I used. I use them to compensate and give myself a tone that is full enough to produce the sound I'm looking for. So I have a set neck, bolt on neck, P90, single coils, humbuckers... My tone is adjusted so they sound rather close...

 

To further my point, almost every professional guitarist out there will tell you the tone is in your hands.... I can agree with that statement 100%

 

I am sorry we will just have to agree to disagree. My Strat sounds different from my 150, which sounds different from 555.

The different pickups, set neck vs bolt on, and scale length all add up to different tones.

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

Why would you adjust the tone so all your guitars sound alike??? Where is the fun in that??? Why not just own one electric then if you are going to make them all sound alike???

 

Listen to Larry Carlton playing his 335 and then listen to him playing his Strat on "Larry & Lee". You can search for it on YouTube. Completely different tones.

[DetroitBlues]

Fair enough.. I"m not fortunate enough to sit down with various scale and types of guitars like you can. We'll have a shootout at PSP, how's that sound Kuz?

[Kuz]

Fair enough.. I"m not fortunate enough to sit down with various scale and types of guitars like you can. We'll have a shootout at PSP, how's that sound Kuz?

 

What are you going to shoot at PSP???

[6stringjazz]

Fair enough.. I"m not fortunate enough to sit down with various scale and types of guitars like you can. We'll have a shootout at PSP, how's that sound Kuz?

 

I guess we are through with the stop tailpiece on the 550 subject. Why don't you guys start a new thread about scale lengths?

 

FWIW, the very early Wes recording on Riverside were done with Kenny Burrell's borrowed 175 with the 24 3/4" scale. Wes's later recordings were done with the L5 with the longer 25 1/2 " scale. You can listen to those tracks to get an idea of how the sound is different with the same player under mostly the same circumstances. Scale length has an effect on the tone. You can compensate for it with amps and pickups, but the physics of it will not change. A longer string has a different sound than a shorter string at the same pitch.

[DetroitBlues]

 

What are you going to shoot at PSP???

 

lol... guitarshoot out, you know, a comparison of tone and playability....

 

But I gave it a little more thought and I do remember playing KBP's old 575. Despite it being another shorter scale guitar, I found it rather difficult to play electric blues on it. Its not a style of guitar meant for heavy bends (could of been the strings though). The 575 is great for strumming and finger picking styles, but I'd imagine longer scaled archtops would be even harder for blues and rock. Perhaps my assesment of trading a 550 for a Prospect or even a 535 for rock and blues is correct...