Rights of a "Non-Original" Owner

[l4popi]

Hi All. Let me say I'm happy to find you guys & I'm hoping for some good info/advice. I picked up an absolutely beautiful (and one of a kind... look at the headstock. as a matter of fact, all the original plans are still in the case pocket) 1992 Custom Super Eagle. I'm tall & it fits me perfectly. Acoustically it's woody & ... what can I say? I love it... BUT... when I first got it I brought to a well respected tech (at the American Guitar Museum in New Hyde Park, NY) and he showed me that the bridge (pins & all) were being pulled forward toward the headstock at approx. a 15 degree angle. He said the spruce top was "sinking", and looking from the side, my heart sank as well. Yes I know... I should know how to check a guitar by now...but anyway. He said chances are that it's sunk all it's gonna sink by now, being a '92, but you never know, and I should bring it back to the used dealer I got it from. Well, I did that & they kept it for about a month. When I got it back the bridge was perfectly straight up, new nut etc., and it played like butter. That was about 3 years ago.

Now when I went to play it after let's say a month or so in the case (it's not my go-to guitar) I'm finding that the strings seem "slack" to me. The action's right where I want it so I don't want to raise it to create more tension. The intonation is still spot on but it just feels wobbly. Also both of the E strings are on the verge of falling off the fretboard if I don't finger them straight down. So, based on the history, I'm thinking the top is continuing to sink and it may be in danger.

So, my question: Should I contact Heritage about this? I'm thinking you guys know more about the company than I do & may have some advice. Obviously I'm not the original owner, do they stand by their work? I REALLY don't want to let it go, even if I were to get my money back from the dealer.

Thanks very much in advance!

[ridethatbike]

are you humidifying the guitar properly?

[Guest HRB853370]

Hi All. Let me say I'm happy to find you guys & I'm hoping for some good info/advice. I picked up an absolutely beautiful (and one of a kind... look at the headstock. as a matter of fact, all the original plans are still in the case pocket) 1992 Custom Super Eagle. I'm tall & it fits me perfectly. Acoustically it's woody & ... what can I say? I love it... BUT... when I first got it I brought to a well respected tech (at the American Guitar Museum in New Hyde Park, NY) and he showed me that the bridge (pins & all) were being pulled forward toward the headstock at approx. a 15 degree angle. He said the spruce top was "sinking", and looking from the side, my heart sank as well. Yes I know... I should know how to check a guitar by now...but anyway. He said chances are that it's sunk all it's gonna sink by now, being a '92, but you never know, and I should bring it back to the used dealer I got it from. Well, I did that & they kept it for about a month. When I got it back the bridge was perfectly straight up, new nut etc., and it played like butter. That was about 3 years ago.

Now when I went to play it after let's say a month or so in the case (it's not my go-to guitar) I'm finding that the strings seem "slack" to me. The action's right where I want it so I don't want to raise it to create more tension. The intonation is still spot on but it just feels wobbly. Also both of the E strings are on the verge of falling off the fretboard if I don't finger them straight down. So, based on the history, I'm thinking the top is continuing to sink and it may be in danger.

So, my question: Should I contact Heritage about this? I'm thinking you guys know more about the company than I do & may have some advice. Obviously I'm not the original owner, do they stand by their work? I REALLY don't want to let it go, even if I were to get my money back from the dealer.

Thanks very much in advance!

 

Is that a "real" Heritage? The headstock does not look typical. I would definitely contact Ren Wall at Heritage and get his opinion. They may be able to repair it.

[big bob]

we will need to see the whole guitar..... um......er... in order to...... um ... better help you?

Awe shucks, just show us more pics please, looks like a cool eagle!

[FredZepp]

The warranty is only to the original purchaser and I think that it's one year...?

 

On a twenty year old guitar, that has been resold, and has had other repairs done by who knows.... they aren't going to cover anything under warranty, that was no longer valid 19 years ago.

 

They would be able to see what needs done and maybe do the work for a charge.

 

But whomever sold it to you , is probably who you should deal with....

[FredZepp]

BTW... welcome to the club.

 

We did see an Eagle with an unusual headstock a while back, but I'm not sure that it was that one..... we'd love to see more.

 

Sometimes they are done aftermarket....

[Steiner]

Welcome.

If you want to see an unusual, beautiful headstock, look to the left of FredZepp's signature.

[Guest HRB853370]

The warranty is only to the original purchaser and I think that it's one year...?

 

On a twenty year old guitar, that has been resold, and has had other repairs done by who knows.... they aren't going to cover anything under warranty, that was no longer valid 19 years ago.

 

They would be able to see what needs done and maybe do the work for a charge.

 

But whomever sold it to you , is probably who you should deal with....

 

I think he would be wise to see what Heritage would charge to rectify this problem.

[Guest HRB853370]

Welcome.

If you want to see an unusual, beautiful headstock, look to the left of FredZepp's signature.

 

OH yeah, seen it many times. Rumor is you have a few yourself.

[FredZepp]

There was this unusual headstock that included the paperwork from Heritage... so there are a few around. very few.

 

[tbonesullivan]

Sounds like a great guitar! Also sounds like it needs help, which it got, but it may need more.

 

Now, is it being kept at the proper moisture level? Archtops especially are prone to issues like this, due to the construction.

 

I would definitely call up heritage to see if the can do anything. Though, most of their designs are similar to gibson and other archtop designs, so it may be best to get it to a good luthier, especially one who deals with a lot of archtops. A lot of guitar techs out there rarely touch that type of guitar, given that solid bodies are far more common.

 

As for the dealer, it's been three years. You left it in the case for a while. Can you see anything physically wrong with it? I don't see the dealer being required to do anything for you at this point, even as a favor. It was a USED guitar, and they fixed it at the time.

[MartyGrass]

Often a sunken top on an archtop is from the glue failing to hold the parallel braces secure. If the braces were appropriate, they shouldn't bend.

 

A good archtop luthier can diagnoses and fix it. You look at the braces with a fiberoptic scope or mirror to spot the separation.

 

To fix this, the pickups are taken out. A lift or jack is placed under the sunken part, generally right under the bridge area. This then pushes the top up to the right position. The braces are reglued and clamped through the holes in the top. Drying takes about a week.

 

Aaron Cowles, a Gibson/Heritage archtop master in Kalamazoo, did this on a 1950's ES-175 about 2 weeks ago. It's good as new now.

 

I don't know if Heritage does this kind of repair or simply sends them to Aaron.

 

It shouldn't be an expensive repair.

 

Some people don't repair this condition and simply get a taller bridge and avoid heavy strings.

 

BTW, bridges can angle toward the head without it indicating a problem. If the bridge pins are slightly loose, the bridge will tip toward the headstock when the strings are tightened. The tilt angle can be a clue that the top has sunken in that the bridge may have to be raised very high to compensated. This can lead to pin loosening.

[bolero]

wow sounds like an interesting guitar, I agree post more pics!

 

I think after 20 years you are on your own maintenance plan

 

not that I know much about archtops; but I think some great advice has been given

[l4popi]

Thanks for the replies. The guitar is kept at the proper humidification, yes. (anywhere from 68 - 75 degrees F & RH - 40 to 50 %). That was an interesting post from Marty Grass but the guitar has no holes in it except F holes. It has a floating P.U. So what does that mean? The whole top has to come off? I'm getting nauseous...

BTW, it was custom built with that headstock. I have the drawings & correspondence from Heritage. Here's the guitar...

Thanks for trying,

Arne

[FredZepp]

Great stuff , Arne. A very sweet Super Eagle. Stunning woods and great custom work.

 

[l4popi]

Thanks. No Eagle as you can see. I actually thought that was cool. It says Super Eagle Custom on the label inside.... Arne

[High Flying Bird]

No denying that this one is a Heritage. Call the factory early - eastern time. Good luck!

[FredZepp]

Thanks. No Eagle as you can see. I actually thought that was cool. It says Super Eagle Custom on the label inside.... Arne

Yes... with that custom headstock, having no eagle inlay is sharp. Mine has hummingbird inlay.

 

[MartyGrass]

I'm not sure how you'd elevate the top through the f holes alone. I can imagine two ways to do that. You do not want to remove the top if you can avoid it. That would be a big job.

 

I would suggest calling a premier archtop luthier for an opinion.

 

I use Aaron Cowles for a couple of reasons. First, he's about 20 minutes away. Second, he is one of the finest archtop builders in the world, putting together the best of the best Gibsons in the 60s through the 80s and doing special projects for Heritage from the 80s onward. Third, he's significantly less expensive than other options. That's because he has a low overhead and he's very fast.

 

The ES-175 I mentioned above came from NY. He gets repair work from all over the country.

 

Just like with Heritage, it's better to call that email.

 

http://www.aaronsmusicservice.com/main.html

 

 

 

Here's one of his archtops.

 

[byrdland]

That is a beautiful and very special guitar. It is your right and responsibility to get that beauty back to 100%. The other posters have pointed you in the right direction. It's not easy to find a luthier talented enough to work on such a fine instrument. Good Luck!!

[big bob]

that is a spectacular super eagle, I would call and talk with Rendal Wall at Heritage.