Kuz Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 In general I seem to get more hiss from my tube amps. Anyone else notice that? Yea, but unless you are playing solo jazz gigs to an audience that has 100% of your attention... I don't think anybody notices, certainly not with three-piece band or larger.
Kuz Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 You are correct, sir. And Larry Carlton uses his Dumble for every style he plays...jazz, blues, or Steely Dan riffs that I cannot play worth a darn!! Yep, and Larry really has the presence rolled off, ever notice that. Warm, fat, and creamy. Unless he is playing with Robben Ford, that is the only time I thought his bridge pup was just a tiny tiny bit shrill.
DC Ron Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Never get tired of this thread. Ampeg Reverberocket II, Polytone Mini Brute IV (or II) and Heritage Lobo 20 are all good choices. My Princeton Reverb with 12" speaker is nice too. The Polytone is my favorite for a pure jazz sound. A spring reverb (or some kind of reverb) is part of the sound I'm looking for as well. So to sum up, clean sound with lots of headroom, 12"/15" speaker and spring reverb (long tanks better).
iim7v7im7 Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 You are correct, sir. And Larry Carlton uses his Dumble for every style he plays...jazz, blues, or Steely Dan riffs that I cannot play worth a darn!! The Steely Dan riffs that you like so much are actually a Fender 5E3 Tweed Deluxe. Larry didn't start to play with a Dumble until the mid-1980s. Most of his Steely Dan work was either a Tweed Deluze or a Paul Riveira modified Princeton. Most of his early solo work was through a Mesa Mark I. All this being said, I really consider Larry not to be a Jazz player. His style mixes jazz, blues and rock. That's why we all love his playing!
Gitfiddler Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 The Steely Dan riffs that you like so much are actually a Fender 5E3 Tweed Deluxe. Larry didn't start to play with a Dumble until the mid-1980s. Most of his Steely Dan work was either a Tweed Deluze or a Paul Riveira modified Princeton. Most of his early solo work was through a Mesa Mark I. All this being said, I really consider Larry not to be a Jazz player. His style mixes jazz, blues and rock. That's why we all love his playing! You are correct about the early Steely Dan recordings. I was referring to Mr. 335's current live performances where he replicates them on his custom Dumble. I should have been more clear.
iim7v7im7 Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Obviously the talent of the players predominates here. Here are some different solid state amps (oh, yeah and some great players!) Howard Alden (Polytone) Jimmy Bruno (Henriksen) Continued...
iim7v7im7 Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 John Pizzarelli (Jazzkat) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quxTi7VDHHo&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLE6E66B12F373F602 Martin Taylor (AER)
Kuz Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 I love all their tones, REALLY do, and I have no issues with SS amps for jazz. I also love Lee Ritenour's "Wes Bound" album played with an L5 through a twin. For my money, up there with the best jazz tones ever!!!
tsp17 Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 I also love Lee Ritenour's "Wes Bound" album played with an L5 through a twin. For my money, up there with the best jazz tones ever!!! I can't believe i I left Twin Reverb off my earlier list! Best clean jazz tone ever. My KBP build is going to emulate twin tone in a smaller package. No way to really get the 2x12 tone out of a 1x12, but you get the idea. It'll be pretty close, and very portable.
Guest HRB853370 Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 Just to pile on, for those that dont mind a tube amp or the weight, the Peavey Classic 50 212 is a fantastic amp, very clean and articulate and I think would really do an archtop good!
rjsanders Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 Juke 1210. sold my '65-'67 Super Reverb to fund it (they're about the same outlay), never regret it. that was in early '03
tsp17 Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 In general I seem to get more hiss from my tube amps. Anyone else notice that? Definitely
Guest HRB853370 Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 I don't have any hissing issues with tube amps. Last night I was trying to learn "How High the Moon" on my 555 through a Peavey Delta Blues, getting some great jazz tones. I need to get the progressions from Vince on that one if nobody on this forum has them.
MrB Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 Slammer, Your original question is interesting. What's your best guitar? H150? H535? Prospect? Golden Eagle? H575? Sweet 16? (answer: any guitar made on Parsons St. in Kalamazoo) Ask 100 player to line up with their favorite gear and play... You'll get 100 guitar/amp combinations, 100 different styles of music. Each player will sneer at the neighbors and say: "I don't like your sound. What you're playing is not jazz." Big hollow body electric, solid state amp with the treble at zero. Semi-Hollow through a Dumble. Tele run through a bright Fender. Acoustic Arch Top. Classical Guitar. I've heard jazz on them all, and many more. What is your sound? Give me a semi-hollow body (G335, H535, my incoming Millie DC) through a vintage Fender (or boutique clone). Crank it up so the tubes warm up; and start to compress a bit; with the warm, even harmonics starting to kick in. And if you don't play with some fire in your belly, it's not jazz. But that's just me. `,:-) For a big room, loud band: vintage Twin Reverb Medium level: Deluxe Reverb Reissue (my present amp) Small room: I'm still looking for the right amp here... (help?) Mr B ps 1: interesting side note, I've noticed that I always tend to end up with the same sound, whether I'm playing Afro-Cuban Jazz, Mainstream Jazz, Son Cubano, Blues, Classic Rock... ps2 to iim7v7im7: would it be possible for you to add to your next post a larger photo of your 535? i love the color, want to forward it to Jay W, show what color I want on my new Millie. (Jay, you reading this?)
Guest HRB853370 Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 Slammer, Your original question is interesting. What's your best guitar? H150? H535? Prospect? Golden Eagle? H575? Sweet 16? (answer: any guitar made on Parsons St. in Kalamazoo) Ask 100 player to line up with their favorite gear and play... You'll get 100 guitar/amp combinations, 100 different styles of music. Each player will sneer at the neighbors and say: "I don't like your sound. What you're playing is not jazz." Big hollow body electric, solid state amp with the treble at zero. Semi-Hollow through a Dumble. Tele run through a bright Fender. Acoustic Arch Top. Classical Guitar. I've heard jazz on them all, and many more. What is your sound? Give me a semi-hollow body (G335, H535, my incoming Millie DC) through a vintage Fender (or boutique clone). Crank it up so the tubes warm up; and start to compress a bit; with the warm, even harmonics starting to kick in. And if you don't play with some fire in your belly, it's not jazz. But that's just me. `,:-) For a big room, loud band: vintage Twin Reverb Medium level: Deluxe Reverb Reissue (my present amp) Small room: I'm still looking for the right amp here... (help?) Mr B ps 1: interesting side note, I've noticed that I always tend to end up with the same sound, whether I'm playing Afro-Cuban Jazz, Mainstream Jazz, Son Cubano, Blues, Classic Rock... ps2 to iim7v7im7: would it be possible for you to add to your next post a larger photo of your 535? i love the color, want to forward it to Jay W, show what color I want on my new Millie. (Jay, you reading this?) Best reply yet, thanks Mr. B. All of them from 225 Parsons St is the answer. Hmm, as far as small room, maybe a Princeton Reverb RI? Or A KBP810 custom build? He is our local HOC amp builder.
jeffmatz Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 Late to the party, but since jazz is my thing and I saw this topic come back up... Seems to be two schools on jazz tones, with a common overall goal...I'm talking traditional, clean tone here...jazz has moved beyond thinking that's the only way to sound, but there's a reason jazzers like a good clean tone without too many harmonics getting in the way of those beautiful jazz chords... Until the late 60's really, tube amps were it..you could use whatever in the studio...live was a different deal...Fenders and Ampegs, 6L6 based amps, for the most part, seemed to get the most work...You bought an amp and hoped it was big enough not to break up, since bands were getting louder and louder...Charlie Christian played through a 5 watt amp (but also reportedly had plenty of dirt in his tone at some bigger concerts) A lot of cats still like the tube tone...for a good reason...it's classic...warm, round, plenty of pop and punch... But there's a whole 'nuther school of thought out there too...Nowadays, players--I mean the regular guys, and the big city names, are looking for those great clean tones in a small lightweight package...something you can take on the subway...enter the solid state amp. There's different veins here too...I call 'em the polytone school and the "acoustic" school... Polytone essentially made the first solid state "jazz amps" (I'm not counting the bigger heavier standels like Wes used...) they were small, about 30lbs or less, loud...the sound is like black licorice...you love it or hate it...it can be quite dark, really not a product of a lot of bass but of a lot of mids, and not much highs...people who don't like 'em say they sound like "cardboard" or a "blanket over the amp," but the truth is, about 3 big name players TOTAL in the history of jazz have actually recorded with that dark of a tone...but I digress! Anyway, you can hear the polytone sound today in an amp like a Henriksen, albeit a little less midrangey and with better control over EQ. Evans too, to a certain extent, but I always felt Evans was trying to make solid state amp that sound like blackface fenders...but with a midrange control... Then you have the "acoustic amp sounds like AER and Acoustic image...very dry, natural tone...lots of folks like these amps with solid wood archtops and the polytone-esque amps with laminates, but that's not a rule... So I guess it depends on what you want...I have tube amps and solid state, I tend to gig the solid state and enjoy the tubes at home...
Guest HRB853370 Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 Late to the party, but since jazz is my thing and I saw this topic come back up... Seems to be two schools on jazz tones, with a common overall goal...I'm talking traditional, clean tone here...jazz has moved beyond thinking that's the only way to sound, but there's a reason jazzers like a good clean tone without too many harmonics getting in the way of those beautiful jazz chords... Until the late 60's really, tube amps were it..you could use whatever in the studio...live was a different deal...Fenders and Ampegs, 6L6 based amps, for the most part, seemed to get the most work...You bought an amp and hoped it was big enough not to break up, since bands were getting louder and louder...Charlie Christian played through a 5 watt amp (but also reportedly had plenty of dirt in his tone at some bigger concerts) A lot of cats still like the tube tone...for a good reason...it's classic...warm, round, plenty of pop and punch... But there's a whole 'nuther school of thought out there too...Nowadays, players--I mean the regular guys, and the big city names, are looking for those great clean tones in a small lightweight package...something you can take on the subway...enter the solid state amp. There's different veins here too...I call 'em the polytone school and the "acoustic" school... Polytone essentially made the first solid state "jazz amps" (I'm not counting the bigger heavier standels like Wes used...) they were small, about 30lbs or less, loud...the sound is like black licorice...you love it or hate it...it can be quite dark, really not a product of a lot of bass but of a lot of mids, and not much highs...people who don't like 'em say they sound like "cardboard" or a "blanket over the amp," but the truth is, about 3 big name players TOTAL in the history of jazz have actually recorded with that dark of a tone...but I digress! Anyway, you can hear the polytone sound today in an amp like a Henriksen, albeit a little less midrangey and with better control over EQ. Evans too, to a certain extent, but I always felt Evans was trying to make solid state amp that sound like blackface fenders...but with a midrange control... Then you have the "acoustic amp sounds like AER and Acoustic image...very dry, natural tone...lots of folks like these amps with solid wood archtops and the polytone-esque amps with laminates, but that's not a rule... So I guess it depends on what you want...I have tube amps and solid state, I tend to gig the solid state and enjoy the tubes at home... Interesting perspective Jeff. I don't gig on guitar, much at all to speak, and certainly not with jazz music. But good to know perhaps my Peavey Bandit that is collecting dust may be useful after all!
MrB Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 Slammer, I tried to find KBP810 on the web, no luck. How does one reach him? I suspect a custom built would be extremely pricey, though. All the boutique amps are fairly high. The Princeton is a possibility, but I see a lot of bad reviews regarding quality control. Anyone here have experience with them? Dr Z has a new 8 watt amp out, the Maz 8. Very good reviews on their amps, but over $1.7k for 8 watts is pushing my budget. Anyone familiar with Hughes & Kettner? Their Tubemeister 18 is priced nicely. Mr B (non-traditional, unclean)
ronvermillion Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 I'm not a great jazz player ( understatement of the year) but the poor boy version of a jazz amp has always been a bass amp with a tweeter. Usually a solid state amp for clean headroom. For this type of amp I highly recommend the MarkBass CMD 121 P. I have one and it gets you a 400 watt amp with 1 x 12" and a tweeter in a 29 lb. box. Pretty hard to beat. Also you might try running through a BOSE L1 system. They really do sound great, and I know they are wierd as all get out, but they are a surprisingly great guitar amp, especially for an archtop. Big Ron
Kuz Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 Slammer, I tried to find KBP810 on the web, no luck. How does one reach him? I suspect a custom built would be extremely pricey, though. All the boutique amps are fairly high. The Princeton is a possibility, but I see a lot of bad reviews regarding quality control. Anyone here have experience with them? Dr Z has a new 8 watt amp out, the Maz 8. Very good reviews on their amps, but over $1.7k for 8 watts is pushing my budget. Anyone familiar with Hughes & Kettner? Their Tubemeister 18 is priced nicely. Mr B (non-traditional, unclean) Matt, have you ever tried a Headstrong Lil' King??? They are a better than Fender reissue of a '64 Princeton reverb and can be had used for $900-1,200. They love pedals too, so you can go from straight jazz to OD distortion. But they have that big fat warm clean Princeton tone (oh, I forgot most of them come with a 12" speaker that really fill the room).
Guest HRB853370 Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 Slammer, I tried to find KBP810 on the web, no luck. How does one reach him? I suspect a custom built would be extremely pricey, though. All the boutique amps are fairly high. The Princeton is a possibility, but I see a lot of bad reviews regarding quality control. Anyone here have experience with them? Dr Z has a new 8 watt amp out, the Maz 8. Very good reviews on their amps, but over $1.7k for 8 watts is pushing my budget. Anyone familiar with Hughes & Kettner? Their Tubemeister 18 is priced nicely. Mr B (non-traditional, unclean) You can PM him at KBP810. He builds them in his home and does not advertise. He has plenty of HOC testimonials, me included.
DetroitBlues Posted May 23, 2012 Posted May 23, 2012 You can PM him at KBP810. He builds them in his home and does not advertise. He has plenty of HOC testimonials, me included. Count me too! I had one of his and parted ways with it because of my stupidity and not understanding how the amp works...
yoslate Posted May 23, 2012 Posted May 23, 2012 Don't know which model (I'll find out), but played my Tele through an Acoustic Image last week. Blasphemy, you say? Never get an authentic "jazz tone" (whatever that might be) out of that combo?! You must be kidding.... Great amp!
iim7v7im7 Posted May 23, 2012 Posted May 23, 2012 Slammer, Your original question is interesting. What's your best guitar? H150? H535? Prospect? Golden Eagle? H575? Sweet 16? (answer: any guitar made on Parsons St. in Kalamazoo) Ask 100 player to line up with their favorite gear and play... You'll get 100 guitar/amp combinations, 100 different styles of music. Each player will sneer at the neighbors and say: "I don't like your sound. What you're playing is not jazz." Big hollow body electric, solid state amp with the treble at zero. Semi-Hollow through a Dumble. Tele run through a bright Fender. Acoustic Arch Top. Classical Guitar. I've heard jazz on them all, and many more. What is your sound? Give me a semi-hollow body (G335, H535, my incoming Millie DC) through a vintage Fender (or boutique clone). Crank it up so the tubes warm up; and start to compress a bit; with the warm, even harmonics starting to kick in. And if you don't play with some fire in your belly, it's not jazz. But that's just me. `,:-) For a big room, loud band: vintage Twin Reverb Medium level: Deluxe Reverb Reissue (my present amp) Small room: I'm still looking for the right amp here... (help?) Mr B ps 1: interesting side note, I've noticed that I always tend to end up with the same sound, whether I'm playing Afro-Cuban Jazz, Mainstream Jazz, Son Cubano, Blues, Classic Rock... ps2 to iim7v7im7: would it be possible for you to add to your next post a larger photo of your 535? i love the color, want to forward it to Jay W, show what color I want on my new Millie. (Jay, you reading this?) Here are some shots....(Its Oldstyle Sunburst BTW)
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