Help! String buzz on 535

[Guest HRB853370]

I pulled my cherryburst 535 out of the rotation tonite to play, and to my aghast, the low E and A strings had a buzz in them. The action was pretty low when I got the guitar from Martygrass, but it didn't buzz. I could take it to a guitar repair shop for a complete setup, but other than that buzz on the open two strings, it plays wonderfully. So my question is, could I just raise the saddles on the E and A string a little, reset the intonation and perhaps that may correct this condition?

 

I am hoping NoNameBand will chime in here too.

 

Thanks

[Ned]

How is the neck relief? Sounds like an eighth of a turn might do it. Unless you've had some major swing in humidity, seems unlikely the top moved that much.

[Guest HRB853370]

How is the neck relief? Sounds like an eighth of a turn might do it. Unless you've had some major swing in humidity, seems unlikely the top moved that much.

 

clockwise or counter clockwise Ned?

[MartyGrass]

I have to adjust the truss rod with the change of seasons. It's almost like setting your clock ahead or behind.

 

If the buzz is below the 7th fret, loosen the neck (put more relief in it). If it's only higher up, tighten the neck. If it's everywhere, go back to drumming.

[DetroitBlues]

If its been stored for a while, I suggest take it to a luthier and have it checked out. Cars need tune ups, especially classics.. Why would you treat a guitar any different?

[Ned]

Mr grass has it right. I fret the sixth string at the first fret and the fourteenth fret. If there is more than a matchbook cover thickness between the string and the eighth fret I tighten the truss rod a touch. A little goes a long way. If you want really low action which makes big strumming and bending tough, go as flat as you dare.

 

 

 

The truss rod works against the tension of the strings, tightneing puts in back bow, loosening puts in more relief. Martygrass gave some practical advice. I always have to think it through.

[Guest HRB853370]

I have to adjust the truss rod with the change of seasons. It's almost like setting your clock ahead or behind.

 

If the buzz is below the 7th fret, loosen the neck (put more relief in it). If it's only higher up, tighten the neck. If it's everywhere, go back to drumming.

Mr grass has it right. I fret the sixth string at the first fret and the fourteenth fret. If there is more than a matchbook cover thickness between the string and the eighth fret I tighten the truss rod a touch. A little goes a long way. If you want really low action which makes big strumming and bending tough, go as flat as you dare.

 

 

 

The truss rod works against the tension of the strings, tightneing puts in back bow, loosening puts in more relief. Martygrass gave some practical advice. I always have to think it through.

 

First or second frets. Counterclockwise to loosen the rod right?

[yoslate]

 

First or second frets. Counterclockwise to loosen the rod right?

 

Will, with the guitar on a bench, in front of you, headstock to the left (neck supported so that the headstock is not resting on the bench), as a righty would play it, turning the truss rod wrench handle so that it moves away from you loosens the truss rod, causing relief (a dip in the board which gives a bit more room between the string and the fretwire). Pulling the truss rod wrench handle towards you will tighten the truss rod, removing relief, in effect flattening the board, thus reducing the distance between the string and the fretwire. Before turning the truss rod nut, you should put a drop of light oil on the truss rod nut. If, when tightening the nut, it offers a very stiff resistance, stop! The last thing you want to do is to break the truss rod. As noted by Ned, as little as 1/8th of a turn can make a difference. Truss rods affect all guitars differently. You have to see how much each instrument responds to a given adjustment. Generally, you want around 4 or 5/64ths clearance between the string and fret on the bass side, 3 or 4/64ths on the treble side of an electric guitar. You can sight relief by looking down the neck, from the headstock towards the body, ignoring the headstock, looking only at the board and each "E" string. One thing I've found in my apprenticeship with Tom (I'm doing a lot of setups) is that one rarely does one step in a setup. The nut, neck, bridge, tailpiece, shims (when present), et. al. are like links in a chain...adjusting one frequently requires adjusting another. This is one reason to find a good luthier. Every instrument is different, and experience is invaluable.

[DetroitBlues]

I've also read where its better to check this while the guitar is being held in a playing position, not on a bench...

[MartyGrass]

There is a learning curve to this. I'm probably about in the middle.

 

There's no magic. It all makes sense. Rob is right, You may end up changing several things to get a good setup. As long as you are not brutal, you shouldn't break anything.

 

The H535 shouldn't require much, or even no, bridge adjustment with seasonal changes since it is essentially a solid body as far as the bridge is concerned.

 

You're denying yourself a lot of fun if you don't go under the hood with your guitars.

[Guest HRB853370]

 

Will, with the guitar on a bench, in front of you, headstock to the left (neck supported so that the headstock is not resting on the bench), as a righty would play it, turning the truss rod wrench handle so that it moves away from you loosens the truss rod, causing relief (a dip in the board which gives a bit more room between the string and the fretwire). Pulling the truss rod wrench handle towards you will tighten the truss rod, removing relief, in effect flattening the board, thus reducing the distance between the string and the fretwire. Before turning the truss rod nut, you should put a drop of light oil on the truss rod nut. If, when tightening the nut, it offers a very stiff resistance, stop! The last thing you want to do is to break the truss rod. As noted by Ned, as little as 1/8th of a turn can make a difference. Truss rods affect all guitars differently. You have to see how much each instrument responds to a given adjustment. Generally, you want around 4 or 5/64ths clearance between the string and fret on the bass side, 3 or 4/64ths on the treble side of an electric guitar. You can sight relief by looking down the neck, from the headstock towards the body, ignoring the headstock, looking only at the board and each "E" string. One thing I've found in my apprenticeship with Tom (I'm doing a lot of setups) is that one rarely does one step in a setup. The nut, neck, bridge, tailpiece, shims (when present), et. al. are like links in a chain...adjusting one frequently requires adjusting another. This is one reason to find a good luthier. Every instrument is different, and experience is invaluable.

 

I realize that Rob, that is what Dan E's book emphasizes, there is not just one adjustment when setting up a guitar. Combination of nut, truss rod, saddles, bridge, etc. For now, I just want to try to eliminate the buzz on the E and A. If the slight tweak of the truss rod doesnt do it, its going to the shop for a complete tune up!

 

Thanks!

[yoslate]

I've also read where its better to check this while the guitar is being held in a playing position, not on a bench...

 

All the measuring, looking, checking...yep. Good point, Josh.

[Kuz]

Like others have said it is not just a quick "turn this" and your done.

 

I was talking with Chuck Thorton the other day, and he is of the belief of near zero relief and raise the action at the bridge. This seems to be the latest philosophy, a flat relief.

 

So Will, it could be that you need to tighten the truss rod til the fretboard is straight and then raise the action at the bridge.

 

FWIW, my specs are 4/64ths on the low E and 3.5/64ths on the high E. With my Heritages I have really no buzz at those settings. It also helps that all most all of my Heritages are Plek'd to those specs too.

[MartyGrass]

I like what Kuz said.

 

Ren Wall did a setup for me on a Sweet 16. The neck was flat and the action was very low. He told me it played like butter. (I hate that saying. I really try to keep butter off my guitars. But I know what he meant.)

 

He added that it's setup perfectly but I will need to use a light touch.

 

Well, that's the whole deal. You cannot have a low action if you are going to wail on those strings. You'll get slapping and buzzing.

 

I use very little relief and let the amp do most of the work.

[yoslate]

As John and Mark have allowed, on setups, Tom has trained me to try to get the neck nearly dead flat, if the guitar will allow that, then, given that the nut is cut properly and it's a decent fret job, use the bridge adjustment to set the action. I talked about this with Vince Lewis at PSP last year, after playing his Sweet 16, which had about the lowest clean action I've ever played. He said his necks have to be absolutely flat for the setup he prefers.

[DetroitBlues]

I was reading my weekly emailer from Stew-Mac.... This week they were replacing a broken nut on a truss rod, but at the end of the article, they had a very interesting way to adjust the truss rod in a way that prevents you from snapping it....

 

http://www.stewmac.com/tsarchive/ts0165.html

[Ned]

I bet we all set up our jazz guitars differently than our electrics. Low action and heavy strings is fine for Stella by Starlight. If I want to get even a little raunchy and/or bend the G string, lighter gauge and higher action is needed. Getting "under" the string for a bend is part of it, keeping the string from fretting out (maybe not a problem on the 12" Heritage radius) requires a bit of height.

 

If I were lucky and had that beautiful 535, I might want room to get a little aggressive.

[MartyGrass]

I was reading my weekly emailer from Stew-Mac.... This week they were replacing a broken nut on a truss rod, but at the end of the article, they had a very interesting way to adjust the truss rod in a way that prevents you from snapping it....

 

http://www.stewmac.c...ive/ts0165.html

 

 

Well, here's what happens when you go to such a link. I just bought their magnifying visor. Thanks, Josh. I should have gotten one of those years ago.

 

Interesting article on TR adjustments, too.

[Hfan]

How is the neck relief? Sounds like an eighth of a turn might do it. Unless you've had some major swing in humidity, seems unlikely the top moved that much.

+1

[Spectrum13]

I suggest tuning down your strings a little when adjusting the neck straight to remove relief.

[Ned]

I suggest tuning down your strings a little when adjusting the neck straight to remove relief.

 

Yes, this is very good advice. Make it easy on the truss rod and yourself.

 

And, allow time for changes to take effect. A thin profile neck will register the change in tension quickly, big multi-piece maple necks more slowly. Some people advise many hours/days to see the effect. I check relief by eye habitually while tuning (simply by fretting a the first and 14th frets simultaneously). I find things settle within an hour or so. Better techs would probably say it takes longer.

 

Like most everything in life, if you are forcing it, something is wrong. Listen to the little voice in your head - it will keep you from stripping a nut or scratching a headstock. Use the right size screwdriver on the truss rod cover. etc. My appreciation for these great instruments increased as I invested some time and effort in their upkeep. I learned on a Fender (draw your own conclusions).

[MartyGrass]

 

Listen to the little voice in your head - it will keep you from stripping a nut or scratching a headstock. Use the right size screwdriver on the truss rod cover. etc. My appreciation for these great instruments increased as I invested some time and effort in their upkeep. I learned on a Fender (draw your own conclusions).

 

You have a better voice in your head. Mine keeps saying "straighten out, goddamit- twist it more".

[Ned]

 

You have a better voice in your head. Mine keeps saying "straighten out, goddamit- twist it more".

 

Your voice knows how to get Ren to work on your guitars. I find that mighty impressive.

[Guest HRB853370]

As John and Mark have allowed, on setups, Tom has trained me to try to get the neck nearly dead flat, if the guitar will allow that, then, given that the nut is cut properly and it's a decent fret job, use the bridge adjustment to set the action. I talked about this with Vince Lewis at PSP last year, after playing his Sweet 16, which had about the lowest clean action I've ever played. He said his necks have to be absolutely flat for the setup he prefers.

 

I ain't touchin those wheels on the bridge unless I have to. They scare me! I tried turning them with my fingers once on a 150 and they wouldn't turn. I resisted grabbing a pair of pliers to turn them, for fear of stripping off the "knurls" on the wheels as well as risking a slip of the pliers and there goes the top of my beautiful 150. Uh uh, ain't touchin dem wheels.

[MartyGrass]

There are ways to pry the bridge up to take the tension off of the wheels. I would avoid them. I put an impression in one of my guitars even with the use of a leather pad.

 

Loosen the strings, turn the wheel a little bit, tighten the strings, check for buzz. Repeat as needed.

 

It's very safe. If you're planning on taking your guitar in for a setup, the luthier will be spinning those wheels anyway.