212Mavguy Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 Came home from a night of playing out at a film production studio party and pulled the trigger on this at 4:20 in the morning. Here's the company pics link. The "manual" link is some decent toilet seat reading. The amp has a couple unusual design wrinkles and huge clean headroom. http://www.ceriatone.com/productSubPages/SSS100/SSS100Pics.htm Besides the basic amazing clean tone, the reverb is to die for. This amp circuit was among the more powerful as well as tailored to a specific player of Howard Alexander Dumble's designs. SRV recorded the Texas flood with a variation of this amp circuit, which was only uncovered within the last two years, this is among the first of a newly introduced amp model for C-tone. Eric Johnson has played through one made just for him. I am ordering my clone without tubes and will socket the glass from my stash. The inclusion of an easily controlled, footswitchable solid state gain stage and passive fx loop allow for some tasty dirt and my goodie box to be going direct in the loop or through my C-lator tube loop buffer. So this one can get plenty dirty and still sing like an opera diva clean. It's thing is singing, comparatively long sustain at clean tones, not needing huge amounts of distortion to achieve this. Some variations of this circuit are designed with an additional tube to aid in maintaining a "clean only" kind of platform, and some insist that this is the one and only true Steel String Singer. I agree with Nik at Ceriatone about the importance of having more diversity in available tone palette with the variation he chose to make. it is not very difficult to shoehorn in the extra tube thang as a mod. It will arrive in two months. Clips from the company site are interesting to me at least...
kbp810 Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 If there was a support group for those hooked on D-Style amps, I could only imagine that you, my good sir, would be the founding member! Building an SSS'ish amp has been floating in the back of my mind for a long long time now - and I'm sure it's something that will happen, eventually... but until that time, I look forward to your full tone report so that I may live vicariously (and jealously) through your new amp day
212Mavguy Posted May 27, 2012 Author Posted May 27, 2012 I'm just feeling lucky to be in on the ground floor for this design. Already have a nice RCA 7025 longplate cleartop waiting for first tracks in v1...Planning on going the adapter/6bg6ga route for the power section, leaning towards Sylvania and GE. This has no PI trimmer so will be some tube rolling for PI to find the right balance/imbalance between sections. And yes, I'm busted, totally busted on the support group thang, but I also have some other, one of a kind turret board amps, my Mav, the Frank-en-Champ, the Ampex 620 modded for git playing, just a bit amptarded it appears...
rjmajik Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 Congrats! A friend recently picked up a Overtone HRM Series and loves it. Please post some demos when you are able
DetroitBlues Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 Fantastic amp! That's going to be one killer tone machine!
212Mavguy Posted May 27, 2012 Author Posted May 27, 2012 I have a stable of cabs, so it's what I'm in the mood for at the moment. Comes with an eBay addiction...I have two identical 2/12/s with oval ported semi d-style back. They are most often played vertical, but occasionally are laid flat. One 16 ohm cab has a one off pair of hemp reconed Altec 600b's with 200w VC's, very, very full, warm, and oozy smooth playing in the dirt. Hrmonic bloom is gorgeous, the cones filter out a lot of extra noise, you hear more of the harmonic notes themselves sustaining and blooming. The other 16 ohm cab is quite different in sound, it's loaded with a pair of vintage LMI125 100 watt Jensen Vibranto 12's that are practically NOS. They are louder than the hemp-tecs to the point that they overmatch them played together and are very articulate and bright on the top, but at the same time the mids and bottom are full, round, and rich. Wonderful for BF cleans, Ithink would work well with a Jazzbox also. I lift the negative feedback circuit on my d-clones for a more agro tone through the hemp cab, and use the negative feedback for more smoothness through the Jensens, along with drastically different treble and presence settings. I have three cabs filed with pairs of my 3 favorite guitar speakers, all from JBL. The 2/12 cab is a finger jointed pine Peavey Mace cab minus the amp chassis and original speakers, I fabbed a semi open back with a 4 1/2" wide slot going all the way across in line with the VC centerlines and used one of the original back baffles to close off the chassis slot in the front. It's filed with a pair of JBL g125, the kind daddy unerrated and unknown 12 inch guitar speaker of all time and I have an old Allen organ 2/15 "flutes" cab that I yanked the worn out eminence alnico 12's out of and replaced them with the g125's big brother the 15 inch, 104db 1w 1meter g135... 15's... equally underrated and unknown...also made that into a similar semi closed back, tuned the back. The third 2/12 cab that I can but not often do is the combo cab of my namesake, my Mesa 2/12 Maverick stuffed with JBL MI-12's. These are a smaller magnat and motor version of the g125, rated for 150w rms but lighter than a C- V30. My fave 1/15 cab is a vintage ported closed back Gibson with a 100 watt Jensen Vibranto 15, a gorgeous speaker/cab combo for clean or dirty tones. there are others, but it's time to get the TP out and deal with an obvious case of diarrhea of the keyboard. FredZepp! You are consistently SUCH the gentleman! Thank you for your help posting the amp pics. Thay are not considered hard core amp porn, because there are no gut shots, this has been a heavily guarded circuit design for decades and those kind of shots will not be easy to come by for a few months...
bolero Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 neat, I didn't know ceriatone was cloning the steel string singer as well now congrats of the amp!!
yoslate Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Mavguy, your amp posts are always such a primer. Lots of tech talk, but I can usually follow. With your insight, I would think you could get on to what it is you're after in a given project. Hope you'll hang with this thread, and play it out for all of us, so that we can further educate ourselves...with your able assistance. Thanks for your thorough and engaging posts, and for so selflessly sharing your expertise...not to mention your considerable pile of glass and speakers. Always a pleasure, dad.... Keep us up on developments!
barrymclark Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 I\'ll admit, I don\'t know a thing really about Dumbles. That said, can\'t wait to hear the clips on this one. We WILL have clips... won\'t we?
212Mavguy Posted May 28, 2012 Author Posted May 28, 2012 Oh lordy, lordy lordy, Barry. When it comes to actual playing of the guitar, I am in the lowest third within this forum's talent and skill compared to the likes of most of our members, have almost zero recording experience. Speaking from the experience of being a fullltime ski instructor for the last 35 years in Utah, my guitar playing is like the guy working as a tech in the ski shop that wishes he could ski like an instructor. There is a "Rudy" factor at work from growing up last picked at recess in elementary school from having allergic asthma. Won't quit or give up. I'm getting better and my ear is improving because I get to practice and perform weekly with kindhearted musicians who are more skilled than me. But that will change next Sunday, our church will be firing up a totally new sound system that will have full on recording capabilities. Best place to find authentic clips are of the boys in the c-tone shop playing their builds, the clips link should be on the page I included with the OP. They play with passion if not headliner looks, it's very real, recorded on crappy equipment, but there is enough there to get a good idea of the basic tone. I actually wrote Nik and asked him to record some additional clips when build is done and the amp is in it's 16 hour factory burn in. IMHO most of the recorded youtube d-tones are with delay and reverb, which I think for showing off the amp is just plain wrong, at some time a guy wants to see his girl totally naked, right?...well, if he's feeling lucky that is...and to get an HONEST idea, that amp should play naked with just it's native parts and circuits, no added fx. In the case of a d-clone that also excludes the tube buffers that they often use. Then you have an honest impression of the basic amp's tone. Need some time, that's good, because the amp won't be here for a couple months and I need to get over the pucker factor of newly experiencing in ear monitors and floor transducers taking the place of speaker cabs on stage where I play. @Yoslate, Sir, your posts inspire me as well, and they are not necessarily ones aimed my way either. You are awfully kind to me, thanks. I thought that this amp might prove out to be a versatile platform, with a unique tone palette that at the same time has that d-family sound. Hoping for a continuum between gorgeous squeaky cleans to full on high gain agressive rock tones from the solid state gain stage. MY other two d-circuits, the 80's ODS (Overdrive Supreme #124) and HRM 50 watters have distinctly different personalities. The ODS wants to go into harmonic bloom more rapidly and feedback can get out of control more rapidly than my HRM (Hot Rodded Marshall or Hot Rubber Monkey,) called His Royal Majesty at C-tone does. The HRM, however, is more tunable to the operator's desire on the OD channel if some desire and technical expertise can be had. That was what caused me to choose it, and I'm not sorry. Both 50 watt platforms are amazing in the tonal ranges thay can do. The tube loop buffer, called the C-lator at ceriatone, is the one most prefer, the original tube driven dumbleator is cloned faithfully. The ODS circuit, called the OTS (Overtone Special) is the current church amp running GE blackplate 6bg6ga's with adapters for the power tubes, a Siemens e83cc PI, a Canadian Electrohome in V2, and a Raytheon long blackplate halo organ tube in V1 if I remember right. I actually like this amp beter without a c-lator in the loop, prefer the c-lator with the HRM. I'll bump as new info surfaces. Happy to answer questions, tho.
barrymclark Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Oh lordy' date=' lordy lordy, Barry. When it comes to actual playing of the guitar, I am in the lowest third within this forum\'s talent and skill...[/quote']You too, eh? Welcome to the club! I am nothing to talk about either. I just hook up a camcorder and go. Don\'t get much more low tech than that. Anyways, still love to see a vid of you and your new grab but that is up to you.
212Mavguy Posted May 28, 2012 Author Posted May 28, 2012 OK, fair enough, Barry. I will, after arrival and suitable tube rolling! I ordered it shipped without tubes...will be an excuse to find something to make me afraid of what me cell phone can do, and it's a cheesy one, not a droid or anything like that or an i-phone. But it does prop up on a flat surface to record vid clips.
212Mavguy Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 Updating... Updating... In anticpation of the amp arrival I snagged 2 quads of true NOS GE Japan (hopefully Matsushita) 6bg6ga from one vendor, and a quad of adapters from another, all on fleabay delivered for less than 165 bucks for the eight tubes and four adapters. From my experience with pre, rec, and power tubes, the build on Japanese tooling, whether originating from Mullard or otherwise, provided wonderful sound and durability, clearly superior to most current production offerings as well as favorably competing for same in their production era. Why 2 quads? For more flexibility to deliver a particularly chosen current draw application. Can have inner and outers' pairs biased hot and cold a la Mesa simulclass via natural current draw, or choose from all eight for the tightest possible match and swap in and out as drifting occurs during butn in, which is common for any powerful pentode, new production build and new old stock.
212Mavguy Posted July 1, 2012 Author Posted July 1, 2012 Why 2 quads? For more flexibility to deliver a particularly chosen current draw application. Can have inner and outers' pairs biased hot and cold a la Mesa simulclass via natural current draw, or choose from all eight for the tightest possible match and swap in and out as drifting occurs during butn in, which is common for any powerful pentode, new production build and new old stock. OCD lives! Gotta have the power section glass ready for the newest mail order bride's arrival. Glass GAS is defintely a pocketbook hazard along with the other NAD-dy new gear addictions among the tube weenie tribes. It's often codependently and cooincidentally suffered when waiting for a custom build mojo juju amp to arrive from its birther. ...and...ummm, I learned that I was mistaken about a brand in a tube type. So now the yet to arrive SSS's power section has two (tight for now) quads of of 6bg6ga waiting. A tightly matched NOS pair of Sylvania 6l6gc go for 200-300 bills today, so 400-600 was my personally chosen par price to beat for a single matched quad. After getting the Japanese GE's, I picked up a few more one at a time ebay BIN's for Sylvania. The adapters showed up, the yet to arrive tube coolers are coming in through US customs Canada Post. Now I knew that the Sylvanias were monsters, and I thought the GE's were 30 watt 6l6GC type guts, but careful build examination and in circuit performance show that they are closer to 19-22 watts than 30. With that said, i ended up with 5 out of 8 that drew within 3 mv or each other, so first tight quad comes from those, and they were absolutely fabulous while playing music through them. Then on to the Sylvanias. Average price for those singly was 10-15-ish delivered. I tested six in black plate and six in grayplate, all 35 watt monsters with the 7581a guts. Ended up with a quad of two black and two gray within 3mv. So the GE set is like a small block Chevy engine while the Sylvanias are definitely the big block units. Both types sound amazing and have their own voice. The GE's can handle the el34 range of bias settings, and the Sylvanias need to be set 5-10 mv higher than 6l6gc settings. So by virtue of low unit cost i was able to accumulate a decent quantity of very, very nice sounding glass, two tight quads of two diffrerent types and power ratings. The others left over can be used as spares, and a few pairs exist among them for my 50 watt d-clones. It's my belief that my D-cirdcuits require for bias to be set above a certain minimum, and that the tubes in them also have their own ranges depending on type. My ears say that if the tube can handle the circuit's bias needs that the sound is going to be very very good. The GE's are running at 85% max to get that done, and act like they are not breaking a sweat, tone is well defined and complex. The tube coolers will be essential to use them. The harmonic bloom is incredibly musical. They want to compress and sing for days. Sylvanias are a tad brighter on top, bigger bottom, and very punchy. Both quads draw similarly at similar bias settings. There was an interesting texture in the mids when I mixed a low max power tube and high power tube together in a 50 watt amp, they had a matched idle current draw to one another. Sound was very good overall. I set the bias knob to a working setting, ran all the tubes from both types through the amp and wrote results on each bulb with a sharpie as I tested. I also tested all of the new adapters as well, all worked perfectly, but the plate caps were cheesy in the metal insert, had to tweak a couple of them with a needlenose to get them to grip right. So now the power tubes are ready to go, just need the amp to arrive, should within two weeks. Must not spend more.... Must not spend more... Must not spend more... Must not spend more... Must not spend more... Must not spend more... Must not spend more...
pegleg32 Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 Mav, I had no idea that tube selection was such an art AND a science. Your last discussion blew me away. I see it can be expensive also but I suspect you will end up with an excellent sound machine.
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