hardware retrofit

[kidsmoke]

I'm planning to retrofit some hardware on my 535. There was a thread recently regarding a 'flipped" nashville bridge that made me want to be absolutely certain i go apples for apples as far as function, but also give all of you have are aware of all possibilities the chance to chime in.

 

as I understand it, this is the Nashville style bridge. So the standard dimensioned tonepros replacement bridge and stop tail should work just fine.

 

Feel free to chime in regarding going nashville vs abr, and also the use of aluminum for the stoptail. Also hoping to get the locking tailpiece.

 

What I got.....

 

 

 

[H]

Forgive the question but aside from the locking aspect, what will you gain from going TonePros here?

[kidsmoke]

it's purely cosmetic....functionally everything you see is perfect

[DetroitBlues]

it's purely cosmetic....functionally everything you see is perfect

 

If its purely cosmetic, then its all good. I don't see anything wrong with that bridge though. I don't think the Tone Pro's looks much different. All I think you are getting is the ability to lock in the adjustment.

[kidsmoke]

Nothing wrong the bridge at all.

 

Considering going aluminum and aged. I know any tonal difference is extremely minimal, but I'm thinking of several changes to the guitar, making it a technically modern '61 Kalamazoo Queen.

[GuitArtMan]

What you have there is a Nashville style bridge, most likely made by Schaller. The TonePros bridge will be the same thing with little locking screws on the side of the body to lock it in place.

 

An ABR-1 style bridge will not just drop on without the use of retrofit studs.

 

An aluminium tail piece will change to the tone/dynamics slightly. I found the aluminium tail pice to have a slight decrease in sustain, but to have a more dynamic/articulate response. It was kinda like the heavy tail piece smoothed out the dynamics, somewhat like a compressor, whereas the aluminium tail piece seemed to acentuate the dynamics. The aluminium TP was also maybe a tad brighter.

[Spectrum13]

Your Nashville bridge looks like the Gotoh as supplied by Heritage after the Shallers and before Tonepros. Gotoh makes the Tonepro which is the same bridge with a set screw. You have quite a bit of gap where the studs connect to your tailpiece. I find an advantage having my setup locked in when cleaning frets and changing strings and such. Having metal bounce and ding your top can be avoided as well. I find the Farber studs and tailpiece less expensive and works at least as well.

[kidsmoke]

Thanks, GuitArtMan. So replacing both the bridge and tail with tonepros should be drop in issues? No small variation in dimensions?

 

What about top wrapping with the aluminum, with this guitar's geometry, I find it mandatory....will the aluminum be more likely to fail than the cast tail?

[kidsmoke]

Your Nashville bridge looks like the Gotoh as supplied by Heritage after the Shallers and before Tonepros.

 

FYI, guitar is a 2002, sold by Ed Roman

[yoslate]

Just an aside, kidsmoke, I don't see how the intonation on that guitar could have been correct. Assuming the high "E" strobed correctly, the "B" should have been flat, "G" was probably OK, "D" should have been flat, "A" close, and the low "E" should have been flat. And yes, if the high "E" and the "D" strobe correctly, you can almost eyeball it.

[kidsmoke]

Just an aside, kidsmoke, I don't see how the intonation on that guitar could have been correct. Assuming the high "E" strobed correctly, the "B" should have been flat, "G" was probably OK, "D" should have been flat, "A" close, and the low "E" should have been flat. And yes, if the high "E" and the "D" strobe correctly, you can almost eyeball it.

 

It wasn't. Bought it that way. After topwrapping I spent a good deal of time changing the saddles to correct it. Took me a while, but with a guitar tech book my daughter bought me for christmas, and a little patience. I dialed it in pretty well.

[GuitArtMan]

Your Nashville bridge looks like the Gotoh as supplied by Heritage after the Shallers and before Tonepros. Gotoh makes the Tonepro which is the same bridge with a set screw. You have quite a bit of gap where the studs connect to your tailpiece. I find an advantage having my setup locked in when cleaning frets and changing strings and such. Having metal bounce and ding your top can be avoided as well. I find the Farber studs and tailpiece less expensive and works at least as well.

To the best of my knowelege TonePros only used Gotoh for a brief period after old man Schaller passed away and they were having a hard time getting the Schaller stuff. This was very early on, when the stuff was still new and you could order direct. Every TonePros piece I've had since then said "Made In Germany" on the bottom so I believe it to be Schaller.

[GuitArtMan]

Thanks, GuitArtMan. So replacing both the bridge and tail with tonepros should be drop in issues? No small variation in dimensions?

 

What about top wrapping with the aluminum, with this guitar's geometry, I find it mandatory....will the aluminum be more likely to fail than the cast tail?

I'm 99% certain that Heritage uses standard and not metric hardware, so that's all you'll need to be aware of when ordering the TonePros. As for top wrapping aluminium - no propblem. Funny though, as when I top wrapped my 535, there wasn't enough down angle at the bridge and frankly it sounded like doo doo! Odd that the neck angles would be so different that you find top wrapping mandatory.

[kidsmoke]

Thanks for chiming in everyone.

 

... when I top wrapped my 535, there wasn't enough down angle at the bridge and frankly it sounded like doo doo! Odd that the neck angles would be so different that you find top wrapping mandatory.

 

take a look. note the necessary tail height to keep the strings off the bridge. Tail screw only had a couple threads in the inserts.

 

 

post topwrap: tail to the top (better vibration transmission) and the angle is fine. Everyone loves the sound, and many excellent players have had a go and agree, it works.

 

[bolero]

if that is nickel you can try to age the parts yourself, and just get a lightweight tailpiece

 

I don't think I'd bother replacing the tailpiece studs, that angle the stopbar is at doesn't look bad at all?

 

I have a gtr with tonepros & one without, both topwrapped, and aside from a slight angle like that I can't tell the difference.

 

I also have an H150 where I went all out & got pigtail steel studs, aged ABR-1 bridge, & aged Gotoh lightweight tailpiece. all nickel. I think it looks better but with the ABR1 you have less leeway for intonation, as it's narrower. but it could help with the steep angle to your tailpiece, as the ABR1 shoulder is smaller. irrelevant if you topwrap anyway.

 

FWIW I just stuck the ABR1 on top of the stock Heritage bridge studs. they don't go all the way to the top of the holes but the string tension holds it down fine. one of these days I might track down a matching set but I'm not losing sleep about it!!

 

good luck

 

*edit* oh yeah, someone once told me that the '50's Gibsons ground/sanded down the tailpieces so they fit snug in the studs, with no play. so if you topwrapped they wouldn't tilt like that

 

anyone know if this is true?

[kidsmoke]

if that is nickel you can try to age the parts yourself, and just get a lightweight tailpiece

 

I don't think I'd bother replacing the tailpiece studs, that angle the stopbar is at doesn't look bad at all?

 

I have a gtr with tonepros & one without, both topwrapped, and aside from a slight angle like that I can't tell the difference.

 

I also have an H150 where I went all out & got pigtail steel studs, aged ABR-1 bridge, & aged Gotoh lightweight tailpiece. all nickel. I think it looks better but with the ABR1 you have less leeway for intonation, as it's narrower. but it could help with the steep angle to your tailpiece, as the ABR1 shoulder is smaller. irrelevant if you topwrap anyway.

 

We're of one mind here, bolero. I want to age the guitar. As I said earlier, functionally I have no problems with the hardware. I love the bending and tone with the top wrap. The skewed position of the tail is of no consequence. I'd love to age the existing hardware, but I'm not sure if it's nickel or not. How do you figure that out with out hardware to compare it to? This is why i considered purchaseing, and if i'm gonna purchase, I'd consider aluminum.

[H]

 

I'm 99% certain that Heritage uses standard and not metric hardware, so that's all you'll need to be aware of when ordering the TonePros.

I'm afraid the 1% has come into play here. The bridge is metric.

 

The generic TonePros parts are as follows:

 

T3BP bridge, T1ZS tailpiece.

 

They have some variations on these codes which indicate the finish (chrome, nickel, gold, etc).

 

Have a chat with Marquis Distribution (they're on the web) who will be able to help you get the parts you need.

 

[ledzef]

I'm afraid the 1% has come into play here. The bridge is metric.

 

The generic TonePros parts are as follows:

 

T3BP bridge, T1ZS tailpiece.

 

They have some variations on these codes which indicate the finish (chrome, nickel, gold, etc).

 

Have a chat with Marquis Distribution (they're on the web) who will be able to help you get the parts you need.

Yeah I made the mistake when I bought my graphtech bridge. Turns out it's metric not standard, didn't know that until it was too late. Ended up finding that out on the Allparts page. So be sure on what your buying.

[bolero]

oh, nickel hardware is a bit duller & has darker highlights than CHROME, which is in-your-face SHINY....from stew mac's site:

 

[DetroitBlues]

Cosmetically, I like the look of Aluminum over Chrome, but I think chrome will stay shiny longer.

[kidsmoke]

shiny is the one thing i don't want.

 

i think I'm going to try aging what I have, using the pcb etchant method. Seems that it is the best for chrome, which is much harder to age than nickel. I run the risk of ruining it, at which point I order the others. What I'd be out at that point is the money I could have recouped selling 10 yr old chrome components, which I don't suspect would me much. I'm going to wait til my pickups arrive and try to match the aging of those covers.

 

Thanks for the feedback guys. VERY helpful.

[kidsmoke]

*edit* oh yeah, someone once told me that the '50's Gibsons ground/sanded down the tailpieces so they fit snug in the studs, with no play. so if you topwrapped they wouldn't tilt like that

 

anyone know if this is true?

 

grinding removes material....where would you do this to prevent the tilt of the tailpiece?

 

[GuitArtMan]

 

grinding removes material....where would you do this to prevent the tilt of the tailpiece?

 

Get TonePros locking studs. They clamp down on the tail piece. The other choice is Pigtail studs as they are machined with a much closer tolerance than standard studs.

[H]

 

Get TonePros locking studs. They clamp down on the tail piece. The other choice is Pigtail studs as they are machined with a much closer tolerance than standard studs.

 

There's also a locking tailpiece system by Faber where the studs lock to the tailpiece. Good, effective system but pricier than TonePros. You get get these in the US through CV Guitars, they're on the web.

[kidsmoke]

the tonepros locking aluminum tailpiece is readily available, aged. I think that's probably adequate. Faber does correctly address the issue though. Surprised Tonepros hasn't taken those steps. It's simply a matter of spec'ing tighter tolerances on the posts.