bolero Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 I think the assumption is the tolerances were much better back then & this guy said they hand fit the TP to the studs . Like I said though I've never heard if it before? So it could be hogwash
kidsmoke Posted June 15, 2012 Author Posted June 15, 2012 Know what? Forget everything I just said. Faber Master Kit. done.
GuitArtMan Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 Sorry guys but TonePros absolutley does have locking studs (I've installed several): http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar,_non-trem_bridge_parts/TonePros_Locking_Studs.html
kidsmoke Posted June 15, 2012 Author Posted June 15, 2012 yep that would be the way to go. Really like the Faber kit though. You get an aluminum locking tail, a locking nashville bridge with ABR dimensions, and in aged finish. Ends up coming in slightly less expensive than the TonePros package. At least in my searching. Hopefully this thread will end up a good reference for those amenable to the search function down the road. You guys are a wealth of info! this project is coming together....now, who's got a set of dinged up cream rings laying around their bench that they don't need??
Spectrum13 Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 Prospect has the full Farber locking bridge and tailpiece with the BSW bridge screws. The bridge is a ABR-1 style not Nashville. Notice the locking bolt on TOP of the bridge post. It screws on. The Millie has tonepros locking studs AND the Farber washer/ring too. The Tonepros locks onto the stud and the Farber ring/spacer locks the stud to the top. Like a belt and suspenders.
kidsmoke Posted June 15, 2012 Author Posted June 15, 2012 so i take it you're of he opinion that the standard tonepros style bridge/tail is in fact a culprit of tone suck? I don't know that at the volume I play, and the settings I play in, I'll notice a tremendous change, but just having the hardware locked in place, and the assurance of maximum vibration transfer....it's worth it. I just figure, if I'm gonna muck around with it, I'll do it right.
Spectrum13 Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 so i take it you're of he opinion that the standard tonepros style bridge/tail is in fact a culprit of tone suck? I don't know that at the volume I play, and the settings I play in, I'll notice a tremendous change, but just having the hardware locked in place, and the assurance of maximum vibration transfer....it's worth it. I just figure, if I'm gonna muck around with it, I'll do it right. "You talking to me?" #1 I like the tonepros and have them on my 150 as well as Tonepro studs on the Millie. Just saying, the Farber system locks much better to the bridge studs BUT being an ABR-1 style bridge it does not have as much saddle travel as a Nastville. So depending on how well postioned your bridge studs are (they are positioned well if saddles on a Nashville are center(ish) in the slot adjustment range) and how much drop you have on your top from the bridge stud holes to your tail piece holes. The ABR-1 is not as wide so you have more string clearence on the rear of the bridge. #2 There is a difference between locking the stoptail to the studs and locking the studs to the top. You can do both as on my 155 and 137. Yes it is over kill.
Guest HRB853370 Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 "You talking to me?" #1 I like the tonepros and have them on my 150 as well as Tonepro studs on the Millie. Just saying, the Farber system locks much better to the bridge studs BUT being an ABR-1 style bridge it does not have as much saddle travel as a Nastville. So depending on how well postioned your bridge studs are (they are positioned well if saddles on a Nashville are center(ish) in the slot adjustment range) and how much drop you have on your top from the bridge stud holes to your tail piece holes. The ABR-1 is not as wide so you have more string clearence on the rear of the bridge. #2 There is a difference between locking the stoptail to the studs and locking the studs to the top. You can do both as on my 155 and 137. Yes it is over kill. But your "luthier" friend, Peter did all that for you!
Spectrum13 Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 But your "luthier" friend, Peter did all that for you! I can do some things, not everything. Have strobe tuner and setup tools.
bolero Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 ps my 157 came with tonepros from the factory, am happy with that setup on there back to the whole '50's sanding nonsense: the tailpiece would have to be thicker than the studs gap, in order to sand it down ( unless it fit the studs tolerance exactly ) honestly I can't see Gibson bothering to do this during mf'ng....if anything the parts were probably just made with closer specs back then, so the TP fit tighter
fretless Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 yep that would be the way to go. Really like the Faber kit though. You get an aluminum locking tail, a locking nashville bridge with ABR dimensions, and in aged finish. Ends up coming in slightly less expensive than the TonePros package. At least in my searching. Hopefully this thread will end up a good reference for those amenable to the search function down the road. You guys are a wealth of info! this project is coming together....now, who's got a set of dinged up cream rings laying around their bench that they don't need?? I have a Faber wraparound w/ Tonepros studs on my 137 and it's fantastic ! I just ordered a Faber tail for my new to me LP studio with Faber studs . I like the idea of locking the tail down in a raised postion to clear the strings at the back of the bridge , without doing a wrap over . Crossing my fingers it all works out with the spacers that are supplied with them . Still I'm sure there is a work around like adding another spacer if need be .
fretless Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 this is per Fabers FAQ How do I install the Tone-Lock™ studs and spacers? Tone-Lock™ is a simple "drop in" replacement for your guitar. Simply remove all the strings, remove the old tailpiece and studs, place the included spacers over the tailpiece inserts, screw in each Tone-Lock™ stud approximately until the threads are no longer visible above the spacers, place your tailpiece between the top of the spacer and the bottom of the stud head, and tighten. That's it! Be careful when tightening the studs, particularly if you are not using a very large screwdriver, as it is possible to damage the tops of the studs and cause some of the plating to flake off, if you get too aggressive when tightening. If you don't have a large screwdriver, a U.S. quarter dollar coin actually makes for a better installation tool. Overtightening is not necessary! You are not limited to using just one spacer for each tailpiece stud. Spacer selection is determined by two factors: personal preference and string angle. With the former, as long as the angle doesn't cause the strings to contact the back of your bridge, choose the height you like best. With the latter, you should choose your spacers which will place the tailpiece high enough that the strings do not contact the back of the tailpiece. One consideration is the use of two spacers on each stud. Personally, I always use two: the medium size, which I install, flange side down, on the insert, and the small size, which i stack on top of the medium spacer, with the flange side contacting the bottom of the tailpiece. This combination produces a good tailpiece height AND gives better contact at both contact points - the body inserts and the tailpiece. Experiment and choose the best combination for your needs!
fretless Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 Got the Faber kit today for the Gibby and popped it on . I also got the bushings while I was there so lets start there ... Those bushings and the ones in the Gibby are different sizes from the ones in my 137 see below the Gold are the Gibby and the chrome are the Heritage . I bought the standard Tonepros and they where a perfect fit on the 137 . Though the standard thread on the studs are the same and I could have left them on both guitars as they were. I only replaced the bushings for the heck of it . I ended up using 2 of the included spacers , the smallest one on the bottom as that little bit of spacer took up the space in the body and mated to the bushing perfectly and the largest spacer to stand off the tailpiece . It locked down like a champ and it's very solid . Locked n loaded the original 137's are a wee narrow next to the fatter Gibbys Original setup on the way out via the screw trick ground down 'thar In like Flint
H Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 Nice job I like a bit of detail like that in a post, thanks for that!
Blunote Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 I'm curious to better understand the screw trick for removing the insert. And if you took the old insert out as I think your picture depicts, did you have to ream the hole out to accept the new fatter inserts?
fretless Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 I'm curious to better understand the screw trick for removing the insert. And if you took the old insert out as I think your picture depicts, did you have to ream the hole out to accept the new fatter inserts? no the hole was the right size , you don't glue them in either . You just gently push them in to get them started then I screw in the old stud and gently tap them in with a rubber hamer .That is key , matching the bushing to the right hole . I would not be able to take on redrilling or reaming them to a different sz . The srew trick is simple you drop a screw down into the bushing head first , though either way works and screw in the stud , again I use the old studs so as to not scratch up the new ones .screwing the stud pushes out the bushing . Here is a vid somewhat painful to sit through but you can see how to do it.
fretless Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 Nice job I like a bit of detail like that in a post, thanks for that! TKS for posting! Happy ending! Thanks Fellas !
Blunote Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 no the hole was the right size , you don't glue them in either . You just gently push them in to get them started then I screw in the old stud and gently tap them in with a rubber hamer .That is key , matching the bushing to the right hole . I would not be able to take on redrilling or reaming them to a different sz . The srew trick is simple you drop a screw down into the bushing head first , though either way works and screw in the stud , again I use the old studs so as to not scratch up the new ones .screwing the stud pushes out the bushing . Here is a vid somewhat painful to sit through but you can see how to do it. I now understand perfectly. Thanks.
kidsmoke Posted June 26, 2012 Author Posted June 26, 2012 Turning in to an excellent thread!! One facet of the job I'm really not looking forward to is addressing the inserts. On my guitar they are WELL below the surface of the top, and I believe this contributes to the relatively poor sustain. Being a laminate top however, I'm concerned about the top layer spitting as I extract them. The video mentions using an exacto. Should work. Thanks!! wondering though....Is that common on the 535, for the top of the bushing to be a full 1/4" or better below the surface of the top?
DetroitBlues Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 Turning in to an excellent thread!! One facet of the job I'm really not looking forward to is addressing the inserts. On my guitar they are WELL below the surface of the top, and I believe this contributes to the relatively poor sustain. Being a laminate top however, I'm concerned about the top layer spitting as I extract them. The video mentions using an exacto. Should work. Thanks!! wondering though....Is that common on the 535, for the top of the bushing to be a full 1/4" or better below the surface of the top? Perhaps you should take them to a luthier just in case?
fretless Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 Turning in to an excellent thread!! One facet of the job I'm really not looking forward to is addressing the inserts. On my guitar they are WELL below the surface of the top, and I believe this contributes to the relatively poor sustain. Being a laminate top however, I'm concerned about the top layer spitting as I extract them. The video mentions using an exacto. Should work. Thanks!! wondering though....Is that common on the 535, for the top of the bushing to be a full 1/4" or better below the surface of the top? even on mine in the "original setup " pic you can see they sit into the body a little . Did you get new bushings ? I'm not understanding how lower bushings would cause "poor sustain" please share your thoughts on that . Also are those flat wound strings ? Yeah I'd be interested to hear from other 535 owners too . Perhaps you should take them to a luthier just in case? If you have a good local guy it certainly couldn't hurt to check in .
kidsmoke Posted June 26, 2012 Author Posted June 26, 2012 even on mine in the "original setup " pic you can see they sit into the body a little . Did you get new bushings ? I'm not understanding how lower bushings would cause "poor sustain" please share your thoughts on that . Also are those flat wound strings ? Yeah I'd be interested to hear from other 535 owners too . well, consider the whole tone lock approach. It creates a solid connection between posts and wood. With my inserts a full 1/4 to 3/8" below the surface of the guitar, I'm forced to leave the bolt heads flush with the top. I COULD continue to crank down on them, causing considerable damage to the top, but obviously i don't. There is less flex with them lower, so it's better, but it's still not "locked", which is exactly the point of the Faber products. In essence, what I have is exactly what your photo shows in your before photo, only the exposed threads are not visible. The relationship between the top of the bushing and the bottom of the screw head is the same as yours, possibly greater(I have a depth mic at home, and checked. former toolmaker here) . You then add the tone lock spacer, and improve the vibration transmission. Am I making sense? If you have a good local guy it certainly couldn't hurt to check in . I got a great guy, but I'm determined to handle this myself. I've got decent bench skills, and that video is a great trick. Anybody who's changed a timing chain or belt has used a similar approach. The ONLY thing that worries me.... Is that if the holes for the bushings are in fact so deep....how close is the bottom of that hole to the back lami panel of the 535, and COULD pressure break through. This isn't a slab of Mahogany like a 150..... The depth mic will answer that question, however. Nothing will be done in haste.
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