hardware retrofit

[kidsmoke]

for review:

 

when i first raised the stopbar on this guitar in order to lift the strings off the back of the bridge....this is what I had. Note that the bushings are properly centered in the hole....but there are only 2-3 threads of the screw in the bushing, allowing a massive amount of flex! The screw is almost touching the side of the hole. This is why I had to top wrap this guitar.

 

 

top wrapping improved it, but there is still that 1/4" gap between screw head and bushing....the same gap you addressed in your second "after" photo, fretless, with the spacer.

 

This is why I'm wondering if this is normally how the bushings are installed in the 535's. Seems odd.

[DetroitBlues]

 

well, consider the whole tone lock approach. It creates a solid connection between posts and wood. With my inserts a full 1/4 to 3/8" below the surface of the guitar, I'm forced to leave the bolt heads flush with the top. I COULD continue to crank down on them, causing considerable damage to the top, but obviously i don't. There is less flex with them lower, so it's better, but it's still not "locked", which is exactly the point of the Faber products.

 

In essence, what I have is exactly what your photo shows in your before photo, only the exposed threads are not visible. The relationship between the top of the bushing and the bottom of the screw head is the same as yours, possibly greater(I have a depth mic at home, and checked. former toolmaker here) . You then add the tone lock spacer, and improve the vibration transmission.

 

Am I making sense?

 

 

 

I got a great guy, but I'm determined to handle this myself. I've got decent bench skills, and that video is a great trick. Anybody who's changed a timing chain or belt has used a similar approach.

 

The ONLY thing that worries me.... Is that if the holes for the bushings are in fact so deep....how close is the bottom of that hole to the back lami panel of the 535, and COULD pressure break through. This isn't a slab of Mahogany like a 150.....

 

The depth mic will answer that question, however. Nothing will be done in haste.

 

That is exactly why you should be concerned and have a pro do the work.

[fretless]

 

well, consider the whole tone lock approach. It creates a solid connection between posts and wood. With my inserts a full 1/4 to 3/8" below the surface of the guitar, I'm forced to leave the bolt heads flush with the top. I COULD continue to crank down on them, causing considerable damage to the top, but obviously i don't. There is less flex with them lower, so it's better, but it's still not "locked", which is exactly the point of the Faber products.

 

In essence, what I have is exactly what your photo shows in your before photo, only the exposed threads are not visible. The relationship between the top of the bushing and the bottom of the screw head is the same as yours, possibly greater(I have a depth mic at home, and checked. former toolmaker here) . You then add the tone lock spacer, and improve the vibration transmission.

 

Am I making sense?

 

 

 

I got a great guy, but I'm determined to handle this myself. I've got decent bench skills, and that video is a great trick. Anybody who's changed a timing chain or belt has used a similar approach.

 

The ONLY thing that worries me.... Is that if the holes for the bushings are in fact so deep....how close is the bottom of that hole to the back lami panel of the 535, and COULD pressure break through. This isn't a slab of Mahogany like a 150.....

 

The depth mic will answer that question, however. Nothing will be done in haste.

for review:

 

when i first raised the stopbar on this guitar in order to lift the strings off the back of the bridge....this is what I had. Note that the bushings are properly centered in the hole....but there are only 2-3 threads of the screw in the bushing, allowing a massive amount of flex! The screw is almost touching the side of the hole. This is why I had to top wrap this guitar.

 

 

top wrapping improved it, but there is still that 1/4" gap between screw head and bushing....the same gap you addressed in your second "after" photo, fretless, with the spacer.

 

This is why I'm wondering if this is normally how the bushings are installed in the 535's. Seems odd.

 

I got ya , so what if you use a spacer perhaps even a spacer from the tone lock kit to fit down into the bushing hole , like I did with mine though a larger one would be needed . Or a spacer under the bushing , perhaps wood like a dowel or metal ?

[fretless]

just a note , and disclaimer :I don't know for sure ,but it may not be necessary for the bushings to be pushed down all the way you could pull them up to the surface and set up from there , as long as they were snug it would be better than where they are now for the sake of the studs and the set up .

[kidsmoke]

 

I got ya , so what if you use a spacer perhaps even a spacer from the tone lock kit to fit down into the bushing hole , like I did with mine though a larger one would be needed . Or a spacer under the bushing , perhaps wood like a dowel or metal ?

 

Exactly! Once I receive the Faber kit and measure the height of the bushings, I'll compensate with some maple in the holes, leaving the bushings flush with the top.

[kidsmoke]

just a note , and disclaimer :I don't know for sure ,but it may not be necessary for the bushings to be pushed down all the way you could pull them up to the surface and set up from there , as long as they were snug it would be better than where they are now for the sake of the studs and the set up .

 

 

I agree. I intend to use the method in that video to lift them tonight. I can do that without even wasting a set of strings.

[fretless]

 

 

I agree. I intend to use the method in that video to lift them tonight. I can do that without even wasting a set of strings.

 

 

Cool , let us know how it goes !

[TalismanRich]

I wonder if the reason for sinking the bushings down is to get them set into the block, which would be solid. Better to be solidly anchored into the block than partially in the block and partially into the laminate top.

[PunkKitty]

KS, I've removed bushings before. If you have ANY issues, talk to me. I might be able to help.

[kidsmoke]

here's a pic of my guitar. Sorry for the poor lighting. did not finish the job last night. Gonna grind down a 1/4" dia dowel pin so it's short enough to do the job of the screw in the video. There is too much pressure retaining the bushing, I want maximum surface contact on all components.

 

The bushing is .410" below the top! Standard? Anyone?

 

[H]

 

The bushing is .410" below the top! Standard? Anyone?

 

I wonder if the tailpiece took a serious whack at some point in history, either accidentally or intentionally. The bushing is so far down it couldn't have passed QC like that, surely?

[kidsmoke]

worth mentioning that this was an Ed Roman guitar to start its life. It's the only Heritage I've ever owned, so i don't know what's standard.

 

P'ups are blackbacks, his proprietary SD p'ups. So to some degree at least, he received this guitar without components. Perhaps the hardware was all installed in Vegas? I have absolutely NO idea.

[DetroitBlues]

That would be an interesting fact to know. I replaced the hardware on my old 140, but the bushings were just a hair below the surface....

[fretless]

Interesting , I'd probably send that pic to Heritage and see what they say .

[Blunote]

I looked at mine;

H150P and MIllie both have the inserts mounted at about the top surface level.

H150 Deluxe (2011 model) seems to be deeper like yours.

It would be interesting to know what the factory has to say about it.

[fretless]

I completed the transition on the LP today over to a ABR style with a Faber ABRN and their INserts and it was super easy to do and a very noticeable improvement . At first strum it sounds way more natural , organic and authoritative . A perfect continuation from the tail install. Simply fantastic and I couldn't be happier . Now for the install process , on a scale from 1 to 5 with 1 being the easier it's a 1 , so easy to do it's silly . The original bushing came out by hand , once I saw this I was determined to procede . So lets go..

 

first the original as it sits on the original post

 

 

 

 

now the ABRN as it sits on the original posts

 

 

notice the wee bit of extra space on top of the post , the ABRN is a hair thicker than stock , though also more narrow

 

 

 

the INsert kit comes with a bolt to extract the original bushings

 

 

 

 

 

 

screwed in by hand it came right out

[fretless]

now in goes the new insert/post , I pressed it in maybe 1/4" by hand , it's very snug perhaps just a hair larger than the original bushing , which is good or otherwise it would be loose like the original

 

 

 

 

the INsert kit comes with a plastic tube that fit over the post so you can tap it in with a rubber hammer

 

 

 

 

tap tap tap...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and done

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did actually flip a few saddles around to match the saddles on the original and it intonated perfectly . Cheers !

[H]

Great post! This sort of detail shows how much money is wasted taking guitars to techs when it's perfectly possible for the average Joe to handle. Thanks

[fretless]

Great post! This sort of detail shows how much money is wasted taking guitars to techs when it's perfectly possible for the average Joe to handle. Thanks

 

Thanks H , yeah this is a DIY all the way . It also helps that the Faber stuff is of very high quality and fits like a glove not to mention very fairly priced IMO .

[High Flying Bird]

 

Beautiful lighting on this shot.

[fretless]

 

Beautiful lighting on this shot.

Thank you Sir ! It's a good shot of those new natural brass saddles too . I flipped 3 saddles around before the install , the A,D and G as they all were headed in the other direction as per it's stock arrangemant . the G did need those extra few screw threads .

[Spectrum13]

You know the screwheads face the stoptail on the ABR-1 design. The heads are smaller.

[fretless]

You know the screwheads face the stoptail on the ABR-1 design. The heads are smaller.

you know I looked all around and it was the Nashville that has the screws facing the tail so I didn't think about it but now I see that the string pressure will push the screw into the body of the bridge so I think I'll flip it just for that . It sure seems like it could work either way though huh .

[bolero]

nice work, looks great!!

 

those studs might have gotten pushed down by a previous owner or even Ed Roman, he was known for tweaking gtrs;

 

ie: if the holes were drilled deeper than the studs someone might have thought it would be a good idea to bottom them out rather than leave a space underneath?

 

some AVH's will go to great lengths on stuff like this...of course a better idea is to install a stud that is long enough to touch bottom & reach flush to the top as well

[Blunote]

So Kidsmoke, what did you end up doing to correct the tailpiece tilt? Or, are you still working on that?